Replacement theology? Yes or No.

GaryA said:

Nope. Happened once - in 167 B.C. - and, will not happen a second time.

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An absurd proposal not grounded in any Biblical passage, historical fact or prophetic mathematical construct.
And as you (and I) well know, 167BC does not fit into ANY decree, Cyrus, Artaxerxes or anyone else.
It does not fit 69 weeks, 70 weeks, 33AD, 70AD, 135AD or anything else.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Jesus saying no man could take his life means no one could murder him unless he allowed it to happen. If Jesus needed to petition the father to save him from death, that means he didn't had the power of himself to do so. And Jesus never said he had the power to do so; he said he had the authority to lay down his life and receive it again.

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? Matthew 26:52-53​

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Wrong. This place is becoming an heresy factory. Scary. Duck and cover!

Jhn 10:17
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

Jhn 10:18
“No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power G1849 to lay it down, and I have power G1849 to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

ἐξουσία exousía, ex-oo-see'-ah; from G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, i.e. (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely, magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence:—authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

Exousia means authority, not power. Dunamis means power. The KJV bible is one of the few that translates exousia wrong in John 10:18

G1849 ἐξουσία exousia (e-xou-siy'-a) n.
1. authority, privilege, permission, the right to do something.

G1411 δύναμις dunamis (d̮ï '-na-mis) n.
1. power.

https://biblehub.com/john/10-18.htm

Daniel does not use the phrase "the abomination of desolation" in Daniel 9:27. He says abominations (plural)

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Exousia means authority, not power. Dunamis means power. The KJV bible is one of the few that translates exousia wrong in John 10:18

G1849 ἐξουσία exousia (e-xou-siy'-a) n.
1. authority, privilege, permission, the right to do something.

G1411 δύναμις dunamis (d̮ï '-na-mis) n.
1. power.

https://biblehub.com/john/10-18.htm

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I am perfectly well aware of the difference. And you are wrong again.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1849: ἐξουσία

ἐξουσία, ἐξουσίας, ἡ (from ἔξεστι, ἐξόν, which see), from Euripides, Xenophon, Plato down; the Sept. for מֶמְשָׁלָה and Chaldean שָׁלְטָן; power.
1. power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases; leave or permission: 1 Corinthians 9:12, 18; ἔχειν ἐξουσίαν, 2 Thessalonians 3:9; with an infinitive added indicating the thing to be done, John 10:18; 1 Corinthians 9:4; Hebrews 13:10 (WH brackets ἐξουσία); followed by an infinitive with τοῦ, 1 Corinthians 9:6 (L T Tr WH omit τοῦ); with a genitive of the thing or the person with regard to which one has the power to decide: Romans 9:21 (where an explanatory infinitive is added (Buttmann, 260 (224))); 1 Corinthians 9:12; ἐπί τό ξύλον τῆς ζωῆς, permission to use the tree of life, Revelation 22:14 (see ἐπί, C. I. 2 e.); ἐξουσίαν ἔχειν περί τοῦ ἰδίου θελήματος (opposed to ἀνάγκην ἔχειν (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 30, 3 N. 5)), 1 Corinthians 7:37; ἐν τῇ ἰδίᾳ ἐξουσία (appointed, see τίθημι, 1 a. sub at the end) according to his own choice, Acts 1:7; ἐν τῇ σῇ ἐξουσία ὑπῆρχεν, i. e. at thy free disposal, Acts 5:4; used of liberty under the gospel, as opposed to the yoke of the Mosaic law, 1 Corinthians 8:9.

2. "physical and mental power; the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises": Matthew 9:8; Acts 8:19; Revelation 9:3, 19; Revelation 13:2, 4; Revelation 18:1; followed by an infinitive of the thing to be done, Mark 3:15; Luke 12:5; John 1:12; Revelation 9:10; Revelation 11:6; Revelation 13:5; followed by τοῦ with the infinitive Luke 10:19; αὕτη ἐστιν ἡ ἐξουσία τοῦ σκότους, this is the power that darkness exerts, Luke 22:53; ποιεῖν ἐξουσίαν to exert power, give exhibitions of power, Revelation 13:12; ἐν ἐξουσία εἶναι, to be possessed of power and influence, Luke 4:32; also ἐξουσίαν ἔχειν (both expressions refer to the ability and weight which Jesus exhibited in his teaching) Matthew 7:29; (Mark 1:22); κατ' ἐξουσίαν powerfully, Mark 1:27; also ἐν ἐξουσία, Luke 4:36.

3. the power of authority (influence) and of right: Matthew 21:23; Mark 11:28; Luke 20:2; spoken of the authority of an apostle, 2 Corinthians 10:8; 2 Corinthians 13:10; of the divine authority granted to Jesus as Messiah, with the infinitive of the thing to be done, Matthew 9:6; Mark 2:10; Luke 5:24; John 5:27; ἐν ποίᾳ ἐξουσία; clothed in what authority (i. e. thine own or God's?), Matthew 21:23, 24, 27; Mark 11:28, 29, 33; Luke 20:2, 8; delegated authority (German Vollmacht, authorization): παρά τίνος, with the genitive of the person by whom the authority is given, or received, Acts 9:14; Acts 26:10, 12 (R G).

4. the power of rule or government (the power of him whose will and commands must be submitted to by others and obeyed (generally translated authority));

a. universally: Matthew 28:18; Jude 1:25; Revelation 12:10; Revelation 17:13; λαμβάνειν, ἐξουσίαν ὡς βασιλεύς, Revelation 17:12; εἰμί ὑπό ἐξουσίαν, I am under authority, Matthew 8:9; with τασσόμενος added, (Matthew 8:9 L WH brackets); Luke 7:8; ἐξουσία τίνος, the genitive of the object, authority (to be exercised) over, as τῶν πνευμάτων τῶν ἀκαθάρτων, Mark 6:7; with ὥστε ἐκβάλλειν αὐτά added, Matthew 10:1; ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός, authority over all mankind, John 17:2 (πάσης σαρκός κυρειαν, Bel and the Dragon, verse 5); (the genitive of the subject, τοῦ Σατανᾶ, Acts 26:18); ἐπί τινα, power over one, so as to be able to subdue, drive out, destroy, Revelation 6:8; ἐπί τά δαιμόνια, Luke 9:1; or to hold submissive to one's will, Revelation 13:7; ἐπί τάς πληγάς, the power to inflict plagues and to put an end to them, Revelation 16:9; ἐπί τῶν ἐθνῶν, over the heathen nations, Revelation 2:26; ἐπί τίνος, to destroy one, Revelation 20:6; ἔχειν ἐξουσίαν ἐπί τοῦ πυρός, to preside, have control, over fire, to hold it subject to his will, Revelation 14:18; ἐπί τῶν ὑδάτων, Revelation 11:6; ἐπάνω τίνος ἐξουσίαν ἔχειν, to be ruler over a thing, Luke 19:17.

b. specifically, α. of the power of judicial decision; ἐξουσίαν ἔχειν with an infinitive of the thing decided: σταυρῶσαι and ἀπολῦσαι τινα, John 19:10; followed by κατά τίνος, the power of deciding against one, John 19:11; παραδοῦναι τινα ... τῇ ἐξουσία τοῦ ἡγεμόνος, Luke 20:20. β. of authority to manage domestic affairs: Mark 13:34.

c. metonymically, α. a thing subject to authority or rule: Luke 4:6; jurisdiction: ἐκ τῆς ἐξουσίας ἡδωρου ἐστιν, Luke 23:7 (1 Macc. 6:11 (cf. Psalm 113:2 (); Isaiah 39:2)). β. one who possesses authority; (cf. the Latin use ofhonestates,dignitates,auctoritates (so the English authorities, dignities, etc.) in reference to persons); αα. a ruler, human magistrate (Dionysius Halicarnassus 8, 44; 11, 32): Romans 13:1-3; plural: Luke 12:11; Romans 13:1; Titus 3:1. ββ. the leading and more powerful among created beings superior to man, spiritual potentates; used in the plural of a certain class of angels (see ἀρχή, δύναμις, θρόνος, κυριότης): Colossians 1:16; 1 Peter 3:22 (cf. Fritzsche on Romans, vol. ii., p. 226f; (Lightfoot on Colossians, the passage cited)); with ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις added, Ephesians 3:10; πᾶσα ἐξουσία, 1 Corinthians 15:24; Ephesians 1:21; Colossians 2:10; used also of demons: in the plural, Ephesians 6:12; Colossians 2:15; collectively (cf. Lob. ad Phryn., p. 469), ἡ ἐξουσία τοῦ ἀέρος (see ἀήρ), Ephesians 2:2; τοῦ σκότους, Colossians 1:13 (others refer this to 4 a. (or c. α.) above (cf. Luke 22:53 in 2), and regard σκότος as personified; see σκότος, b.).

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Daniel does not use the phrase "the abomination of desolation" in Daniel 9:27. He says abominations (plural)

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8251 [e] שִׁקּוּצִים֙
šiq-qū-ṣîm of abominations
8074 [e]מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם
mə-šō-mêm, shall be one who makes desolate

The technical phrase comes from Daniel
The specific expression:

“abomination that makes desolate”
Hebrew: shiqqûṣ shōmēm

appears in:

Daniel 8:13

Daniel 9:27

Daniel 11:31

Daniel 12:11

That phrase is unique to Daniel.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Daniel does not use the phrase "the abomination of desolation" in Daniel 9:27. He says abominations (plural)

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Wrong again.

The Hebrew word שִׁקּוּץ (shiqquwts / shiqquts) is primarily singular in form.

Here’s a precise breakdown:

Form and Meaning

Part of speech: Noun, masculine

Meaning: “abomination,” “detestable thing,” “loathsome object”

Singular: שִׁקּוּץ (shiqquwts) — used when referring to one specific abomination.

Plural: The plural form is שִׁקּוּצִים (shiqquwtsim), meaning “abominations” or “detestable things” — used when talking about multiple objects or acts that are detestable.

Examples in Scripture

Singular:

Daniel 9:27 – “…the abomination (shiqquts) that causes desolation” – referring to one specific sacrilegious object or act.

Plural:

Proverbs 6:16–19 lists “six things the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination (shiqquwtsim) to him” — clearly plural.

Key Point

שִׁקּוּץ = singular

שִׁקּוּצִים = plural

So, when you see shiqquts in Daniel, it’s singular, not plural. That fits the context of a single desecrating act or object, like the altar set up by Antiochus IV Epiphanes or, in prophetic interpretation, the end-times “abomination that causes desolation.”

Daniel 9:27. The Hebrew letters yod mem (ִים) at the end of the word שִׁקּוּצִים (read from right to left) make the word plural, ie., abominations

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Daniel 9:27. The Hebrew letters yod mem (ִים) at the end of the word שִׁקּוּצִים (read from right to left) make the word plural, ie., abominations

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From a theological perspective, the singular vs. plural form of שִׁקּוּצִים doesn’t really change the concept of the Antichrist declaring himself God. Here’s why:

Singular vs. plural in Hebrew

Hebrew sometimes uses plural forms to describe one ultimate object or act (a “plural of intensity” or “collective plural”).

In Daniel 9:27, שִׁקּוּצִים literally means “abominations,” but the context is one decisive act or object — the “abomination that causes desolation.”

So whether it’s plural in form or singular in translation, the prophetic focus is on one climactic sacrilegious act, not dozens of separate objects.

Theological implication for the Antichrist

The prophecy is understood to point to a singular figure (the Antichrist) who will commit one ultimate abominable act, often interpreted as setting himself up as God in the temple (2 Thessalonians 2:4, cf. Daniel 9:27).

The plural form doesn’t mean many Antichrists or many separate abominations; it’s just the Hebrew grammatical form.

Summary

Grammatical plural: שִׁקּוּצִים — “abominations”

Contextual singular concept: “the abomination that causes desolation”

Prophetic meaning: one Antichrist, one climactic act of self-exaltation and blasphemy

No difference in prophecy or theological interpretation — the focus is still on one end-times figure and one ultimate sacrilegious act.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Daniel 9:27. The Hebrew letters yod mem (ִים) at the end of the word שִׁקּוּצִים (read from right to left) make the word plural, ie., abominations

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So what point are you trying to make?
No man of sin coming per Paul?
No Revelation judgements leading to an enthroned King Jesus?
No repentance/redemption of the nation Israel?
No millennial reign?
No end of Satan's kingdom on earth?
No hope for the future?
All prophecies regarding Israel are garbage, false, null and void?
Moses was lying his fool head off, as was Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Ezekiel, Daniel and Joel?

No, I don't thinks so. What I DO thing is that the replacement theology crowd is full of hot air and denials.

God-fearing said:

No my friend...a abomination is that which is against God's design, law and nature. As I said God orchestrated all of this. Why would he orchestrate such a event then declare it abomination? This as another had siad is a very serious error of perspective.
Christ willingly died. A blood sacrifice was required, Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.
Keep going down this path that you have chosen as a murder you will fall into a whole bunch of false teachings.

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Christ Jesus was talking to THOSE people about what was coming upon them THEN, in THEIR GENERATION.

The abomination was the leadership at the time of Christ Jesus. Their conspiring against Christ Jesus is what brought the desolation, His crucification. It is undeniable they conspired against HIM.

Jesus called the leadership of his day everything from hypocrites (Matt. 23:13) to fools (v. 17) to blind guides (v. 24) to whitewashed tombs (v. 27) to murderers (v. 31) to broods of vipers (v. 33).

He also declared that temple was "a den of thieves"(Matt. 21:12-13) and "desolate [God forsaken]"(Matt. 23:38). This is the reason why Jesus pronounced judgment on the temple by predicting "not one stone would be left upon another"(Matt. 24:2).

It is the Temple judgement which is foretold and has happened and will not happen again.

To the leadership the destruction of the Temple was unfathomable to the people living there at that time.

This is being faithful to scripture... instead what do we have...

We have a “prophecy industry” which conditions believers to ignore scripture and history, chasing endless signs instead of standing firm in what Christ accomplished and promised.

The gospel does not center on constant dread, but on Christ’s victory and our call to endure faithfully in the midst of deception.

“Let no one deceive you in any way…” (2 Thessalonians 2:3)

It is an open and shut case on the simple word ...... YOU but even this is tortured out of context.

Time statements are ignored
Audience relevance is overlooked
Apocalyptic language is misread
The finished work of Christ is denied in practice
Revelation is treated like a newspaper
Tradition outweighs scripture
† The reason futurists can't see is simple, tradition has hardened them.

Scripture is read through creeds, prophecy charts, and popular preachers instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. The Pharisees missed Christ because of tradition. Today, futurists miss the fulfillment of His promises for the same reason.

HeIsHere said:

The abomination was the leadership at the time of Christ Jesus. Their conspiring against Christ Jesus is what brought the desolation, His crucification. It is undeniable they conspired against HIM.

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We could look at it that way, or we could look at the more immediate context of the Zealot coup in Jerusalem that sealed Jerusalem's destruction. The leaders of Jerusalem wanted to work out a deal with the Romans, but the Zealots would not have it and committed all kinds of atrocities against the city's inhabitants, murdered its leaders and anyone else that opposed them, and barricaded themselves inside the temple. Either Josephus or Eusibius wrote that many residents fled the city when those things began to happen.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

We could look at it that way, or we could look at the more immediate context of the Zealot coup in Jerusalem that sealed Jerusalem's destruction. The leaders of Jerusalem wanted to work out a deal with the Romans, but the Zealots would not have it and committed all kinds of atrocities against the city's inhabitants, murdered its leaders and anyone else that opposed them, and barricaded themselves inside the temple. Either Josephus or Eusibius wrote that many residents fled the city when those things began to happen.

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Yes I have read that as well, honestly I am not dogmatic. But the corruption was widespread amongst the people as well.

Explains why Jesus stated...

'Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children...'".

Josephus recounts that a woman ate her own child.

My real issue/concern/sorrow is the impact of this false futurism deception and Christians are being used to promote it and it is causing unnecessary death and destruction presently and it seems into the near future.

cv5 said:

No man of sin coming per Paul?

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there is a man of sin. hes in the church right now.

No Revelation judgements leading to an enthroned King Jesus?

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there is

No repentance/redemption of the nation Israel?

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there is.

No millennial reign?

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there is, of the martyred saints in heaven. and the church militant here on earth. the kingdom started in Jerusalem and will spread through the world like a mustard seed bringing forth a huge tree.

No end of Satan's kingdom on earth?

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is happening

No hope for the future?

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there is hope. the hope of resurrection and eternity in the new heaven and new earth where righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13 thats what st.peter was waiting for

All prophecies regarding Israel are garbage, false, null and void?

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too wide of a topic to cover. some prophecies were conditional, some have already been fulfilled, some will be fulfilled in the future and many are fulfilled in Christ.

Moses was lying his fool head off, as was Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Ezekiel, Daniel and Joel?

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no one ever claimed that.
No, I don't thinks so.

What I DO thing is that the replacement theology crowd is full of hot air and denials.

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i agree. those pesky replacement theologians who keep replacing Christ with earthly israel that cant even prove their lineage.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Daniel 9:27. The Hebrew letters yod mem (ִים) at the end of the word שִׁקּוּצִים (read from right to left) make the word plural, ie., abominations

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Let's have the ultimate commentator Jesus weigh in and conclude this matter shall we?

The short answer is yes, there is a grammatical difference between the two, but the "plurality" in Daniel is a bit more nuanced than a simple count.
Here is the breakdown of how the Greek (Matthew) and the Hebrew (Daniel) handle this phrase.

1. Matthew 24:15 (The Greek)
In the Greek New Testament, the phrase used is to bdelygma tēs erēmōseōs.
The Subject: To bdelygma ("the abomination") is singular.
The Description: Tēs erēmōseōs ("of desolation") is also singular.
The Context: Jesus refers to a specific, singular "thing" or "event" standing in the holy place. The grammar here is straightforward: one abomination, one desolation.

2. Daniel 9:27 (The Hebrew)
This is where it gets interesting. The Masoretic (Hebrew) text of Daniel 9:27 is notoriously difficult to translate. The phrase is ve-al kenaph shiqqutsim meshomem.
The Word: Shiqqutsim is the plural form of shiqquts (abomination). Literally, it translates to "abominations."
The Imagery: It translates roughly to "on the wing of abominations [comes] a desolator."

Why plural? Scholars suggest a few reasons:
Plural of Intensity: In Hebrew, sometimes a word is made plural to show its greatness or horrific nature (similar to how "God" is Elohim, a plural noun used with singular verbs).
Comprehensive Filth: It may refer to a collection of idols or multiple desecrating acts occurring at once.

HeIsHere said:

Yes I have read that as well, honestly I am not dogmatic. But the corruption was widespread amongst the people as well.

Explains why Jesus stated...

'Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children...'".

Josephus recounts that a woman ate her own child.

My real issue/concern/sorrow is the impact of this false futurism deception and Christians are being used to promote it and it is causing unnecessary death and destruction presently and it seems into the near future.

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So called futurism has all of the right answers. To this and everything else without exception.

Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24 - And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Most reasonable and logical answer: plural means plural

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Most reasonable and logical answer: plural means plural

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Falling into line with the Lord's intended meaning for all the right reasons would be a far better dynamic than stubborn denial for all the wrong reasons....

1. Matthew 24:15 (The Greek)
In the Greek New Testament, the phrase used is to bdelygma tēs erēmōseōs.
The Subject: To bdelygma ("the abomination") is singular.
The Description: Tēs erēmōseōs ("of desolation") is also singular.
The Context: Jesus refers to a specific, singular "thing" or "event" standing in the holy place. The grammar here is straightforward: one abomination, one desolat
ion.