Loss of salvation???

James456 said:

Why should I even answer a question of yours when you cannot answer one question asked of you?
A baptism of repentance for sins was in place under JTB when Christ walked this earth. Yet Jesus forgave people their sins instantly, without requiring someone to firstly be baptised by John
You think God does not have the right to do the same today?

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GWH said:

Peter had works-oriented tendencies until corrected by Paul in Acts 15, which Paul recounted in Gal. 2:1-5,
and during a visit by Peter to Antioch, when Paul again reproved him for fearing the circumcision group and
failing to teach justification by faith in Christ rather than by observing the law (Gal. 2:11-21).
Evidence that Peter amended his mistakes is found in 1Pet. 1:3-9 & 18-23, where he says we are saved by faith
in Christ and the Word of God without mentioning baptism until 1Pet. 3:21, where he says water symbolizes baptism
that saves--the death and resurrection of Jesus (cf. Luke 12:50, Col. 2:12-14).

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Ouch said:

First you tell me you not anwering my question becaues I didn't anwer yours.

I did answers yours or tried to, I guess you didn't like the answer?

I told you I didn't understand why that did not anwer your question.

Asking question is how we learn, I really did try.

You would not tell me why?

Now you want me to awers your questions.

Isn't that living down a one way street?

I will always answer questions!!

When JESUS was on this earth HE did infact forgive sins.

Today HE has to follow the same rule book HE left us.

So to remove our sins, we have to have faith in HIM when we OBEY HIS word and get baptized in JESUS name that HE will forgive our sins.

Now can you show how faith alone removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost?

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Ouch said:

First you tell me you not anwering my question becaues I didn't anwer yours.

I did answers yours or tried to, I guess you didn't like the answer?

I told you I didn't understand why that did not anwer your question.

Asking question is how we learn, I really did try.

You would not tell me why?

Now you want me to awers your questions.

Isn't that living down a one way street?

I will always answer questions!!

When JESUS was on this earth HE did infact forgive sins.

Today HE has to follow the same rule book HE left us.

So to remove our sins, we have to have faith in HIM when we OBEY HIS word and get baptized in JESUS name that HE will forgive our sins.

Now can you show how faith alone removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost?

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Ouch said:

You say Paul descourgaed people?

1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Looks to me like Paul was saying he would rather speak with understanding in stead of in the spirit so people could understand!!

For sure not descoragein people from speaking in tongues.

FYI, when GOD fills you with HIS spirit it's not a different languare where does this stuff come from???

1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

As you can see not different languares but to GOD ONLY NO MAN UNDERSTAND.

I really do understand HIS word what I don't understand and a little slow about is trying to understand why people say GODS word says something that it doesn't.

FYI, I am stubborn and TRUE to HIS WORD, I don't make up stories.

So now were off of Romans and you proving those statement tell us how to be reborn on to jumping to Acts 15?

Acts 15:7-11
King James Version
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

That's a little better, as we can tell since their hearts were right (speaking about he gentils) JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost just like JESUS filled the 120 in the upper room in Acts 2:4.
Which made the Gentiles same as the Jews.

NOTE after JESUS filled them, they were COMMANDED to be baptized.

So is your heart right? Has JESUS filled you?

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ChocolateSheep said:

And here's the question of the day. What does it mean to believe on/have faith in Jesus? Is it believing he existed? All we have to do is believe he died for our sins? Or is there more to our faith in him than believing the things he did?

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James456 said:

I will tell you this, one minister said:
85% of evangelicals do not understand the justification/sanctification process
Having had much experience of those churches, I would consider that figure accurate.
People concentrate on a few select scriptures, hinge everything on them, but fail to see the bigger picture of the message.
And it shouldn't happen, because I avidly believe in all the gifts of the Spirit for today, and know it is the Holy Spirit who leads us into understanding spiritual truth
It is possible, to have great fervency of beliefs, so great, you can only see the things that matter so much to you, so you cannot see the bigger picture

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Ouch said:

First you tell me you not anwering my question becaues I didn't anwer yours.

I did answers yours or tried to, I guess you didn't like the answer?

I told you I didn't understand why that did not anwer your question.

Asking question is how we learn, I really did try.

You would not tell me why?

Now you want me to awers your questions.

Isn't that living down a one way street?

I will always answer questions!!

When JESUS was on this earth HE did infact forgive sins.

Today HE has to follow the same rule book HE left us.

So to remove our sins, we have to have faith in HIM when we OBEY HIS word and get baptized in JESUS name that HE will forgive our sins.

Now can you show how faith alone removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost?

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sawdust said:

Water or Spirit?

People have seen a great light yet they still insist to live in the shadows.

Hebrews 10:1
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

We have the perfect Redeemer but He still is not enough for some people. So sad.

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Wansvic said:

Jesus entrusted Peter with the keys to the kingdom which he faithfully presented. (Matt. 16:18-19) To insist the message Peter presented was at odds with God's wishes is to insinuate Jesus didn't know what He was doing when He made the decision to give Peter the keys in the first place. Remember as well that Jesus specifically told Peter to feed His lambs, His sheep, and His sheep; meaning Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans. (John 21:15-17)

Secondly, Paul did not correct Peter in Acts 15. Paul and Barnabas along with others traveled to Jerusalem to meet with the apostles and elders to discuss the erroneous idea that OT circumcision was still required of NT believers. Peter's mention of being used to present God's message to the Gentiles points to the fact that circumcision was not included as a requirement. James then went on to clarify what commands established in the OT would remain in effect. (verse 20) The apostles and elders provided letters that Paul, Barnabas and others carried to verify that circumcision was not a requirement. (Acts 15:22- 31) The error that OT circumcision is a requirement is addressed in Galatians 2 as well. In neither case was Paul reprimanding Peter for anything.

In Galatians 2 Paul did correct Peter, and rightly so. Peter allowed his flesh to override his renewed spirit. It's clear he was afraid his reputation would be adversely effected if he was seen hanging out with Gentiles.

Lastly, Peter's comment about being saved by faith in no way negates the necessity to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of one's sin. In fact, to be saved by faith in practice is believing what God's word says and obeying what He says is necessary.

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Genez said:

I have explained how Peter was slow to catch onto the new life in Christ.
In the beginning he was till clinging to the old ways of what he knew before.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. ​

Then I remembered (Peter remembered then, not before, and was water baptizing the old way) ​

what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ​

So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to ​

think that I could stand in God’s way?” Acts 11:15-17​

​

THINK! (please!)​

Then I remembered
.......

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Genez said:

No.... Peter did not understand his own words.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. " Acts 2:38

That baptism was supposed to be like this one.

They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2​

They were being baptized into Jesus! Not water!

In our case?

The real you and me are IN the body of Jesus!
Just like the woman was in Adam's body before she was to be manifested in time and space!
For we are the Bride of Christ!

We are going to be bone of His bones, and glorious flesh, of his Glorious Resurrection Body!!!!!!!

And He raised us up together with Him, and seated us ​

with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus." Eph 2:6​

​

We are now IN Him, just as Eve was in Adam before the Lord put Adam into the deep sleep!

...be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ."​

To that culture, the term "name" also could refer to the person himself!
Google this! the term "name" also could refer to the person himself!

Peter said the right words.
He just did not understand yet what they actually meant!
It was for us to discover by the grace of God, in God's timing.

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James456 said:

Jesus rulebook:

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Lukje7:50


Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” Matt 9:2


Cornelius and his household believed the message Peter proclaimed to them, they, then received the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues. Were they in unsaved states when that happened?
What about the rulebook?

And you did NOT try and answer my question you continually deflected from doing so as everyone could see.
My question
Does God have the right to instantly forgive sins today as Jesus did?
A believer is righteous/justified by faith in Christ!

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James456 said:

And BTW
The pharisees of Jesus day viewed the then scriptures as a rulebook, it didn't help them understand the message did it!

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Ouch said:

No, just like your not today.

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Musicmaster said:

That's impossible. The Gospel of Grace was revealed first to Paul AFTER his conversion, so how do you suppose it started before his conversion?

MM

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GWH said:

Re "Looks to me like Paul was saying he would rather speak with understanding in stead of in the spirit so people could understand!!
For sure not descoragein people from speaking in tongues.": The grammatically astute among us will understand that "would rather speak with understanding" discourages speaking without understanding or SIT. The spiritually astute similarly will discern that my heart is right with God/JC/the HS, having the mind of Paul, who had the mind of Christ (1Cor. 2:16), teaching that we are saved via faith, not by works including both PC and WB (Eph. 2:8-10, Rom. 2:25-29, 3:21-5:1, Col. 2:11-12).

I guess you accidentally admitted that Peter's understanding in Acts 15:7-11 was "better than" what he said in Acts 2:38 (because it aligned with Paul's Gospel).

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James456 said:

Really, I am assured, if we turned to Paul's message, and I put a segment of it before you, you would not be able to answer the questions put

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Ouch said:

Yea that's what he said!

So out of all of these verses which one does Paul SPECIFICLY tell us how to be reborn?

Paul, who had the mind of Christ (1Cor. 2:16), teaching that we are saved via faith, not by works including both PC and WB (Eph. 2:8-10, Rom. 2:25-29, 3:21-5:1, Col. 2:11-12).

You assume to much, Peter never changed his message and you can't show me where he did.

If he did it would have been real clear since he has the keys to Heaven.

So where does he change up and say we no longer need to be bapitzed to remove our sins and no longer need the Holy Ghost.

Where do Peter specficly say all we need is faith???

You are right Peters message does aline with Pauls as they were the same.

So you still will not accept that Paul letters were to churchs!!!

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Ouch said:

That is all you got out of my whole response?

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