Loss of salvation???

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Do you believe God will force you to spend eternity with Him if you desire not to? A seal can be broken. Was not the seal of His tomb broken when the stone was rolled away?
So much to understand Just....
Kings would send out edicts that were required to be followed by the subjects of that Kingdom.
They were sealed with an imprint to show authenticity and that it was, indeed, from the King.

This edict could be rescinded at any time.

Also, there's another problem here.
The early church used the word SEAL, as to be sealed in baptism...
at which time the person was said to belong to the Holy Spirit.

And this is true...for as long as the person so wills it.
Our free will is not dissolved when we believe.
We retain our free will to either obey/stay with God or not.

This is why Jesus tells us to abide in Him.
He never gave the impression that baptism would be enough, sans our obedience.
 
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Also while you’re in scripture show me where it says ALL believers will have the gift of tongues or any other gift.

Yes Sir you are right it does not say who filled them.

So GOD the father filled them if you belive the trinity, not debating.

Just wanted to share what Peters says what happens when you get the Holy Ghost so you don't just say it's my opion of what happens when we do.

When JESUS was on this earth,
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Why would JESUS say this, HOW COULD HE be with us always?
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

All believers?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

How can we be apart of the body if we are not all on the same accord?
 
I was in a saved state before I spoke in tongues.
And once again, the words Paul used were:
''Do all speak in tongues''
NOT, do all prophecy in tongues
Not
Do all interpret tongues, simply
Do all speak in tongues. If you had to speak in tongues to be in a saved state, the bible would plainly lay that out. Salvific belief is always plainly spelt out.
I was raised pentecostal, I know their views on this subject quite well
The accounts clearly spell out what happens when a person receives the Holy Ghost. All of the conversion accounts that provide specific details reveal tongues was the sign the Holy Ghost had been received. How much more evidence is necessary?

Jesus said it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that shall be filled. And to SEEK first the kingdom of God and His righteousness...
 
That was a genuine, unique experience that took place in Acts 2 yet not all speak in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:27-31)

It was a genunie experience that if JESUS filled you, you would not question.

Paul was speaking to the church about church settings not to the unsaved.
 
Yes Sir you are right it does not say who filled them.

So GOD the father filled them if you belive the trinity, not debating.

Just wanted to share what Peters says what happens when you get the Holy Ghost so you don't just say it's my opion of what happens when we do.

When JESUS was on this earth,
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Why would JESUS say this, HOW COULD HE be with us always?
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

All believers?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

How can we be apart of the body if we are not all on the same accord?
No it definitely says who fills them. That would be the Holy Spirt, the Helper, the Comforter, the Third Person of the Godhead.

No where in Mark 16:17 does it say that ALL believers will do these things. Try again.
 
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Scripture reveals all have a consciousness of sin even before the NT rebirth. Paul explained this in his letter to the Romans: " For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them Rom. 2:14-15
Paul is speaking of the new covenant, do you know what it is?
 
The accounts clearly spell out what happens when a person receives the Holy Ghost. All of the conversion accounts that provide specific details reveal tongues was the sign the Holy Ghost had been received. How much more evidence is necessary?

Jesus said it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that shall be filled. And to SEEK first the kingdom of God and His righteousness...
So are we to say because tongues aren’t mentioned it just means that the “details” were left out? That’s a strange logic.
 
The accounts clearly spell out what happens when a person receives the Holy Ghost. All of the conversion accounts that provide specific details reveal tongues was the sign the Holy Ghost had been received. How much more evidence is necessary?

Jesus said it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that shall be filled. And to SEEK first the kingdom of God and His righteousness...
What is righteousness to you?
 
Paul is speaking in a church setting when he says that, look at what he really thinks about receiving the Holy Ghost when not in a church setting, Acts 19.

Acts 2, JESUS filled them,

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Peter says,
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

After receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost this is what you see and hear.
Do you believe Phillip left the new believers who had been baptised in an unsaved state in Acts ch8
 
Do you see what you're doing here? What Christ accomplished is indeed that which spans all of time, but the doorways (dispensations) to that accomplished work are not all the same.

Peter preached this [the statements in brackets are my comments]:

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Paul, however, preached this:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you[Not a summary, but that which he preached as THE gospel to Gentiles], which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved [This is an absolute statement, not something anything can be added to from any other narrative for salvation.], if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

These statements were not made days or even a year apart from each other, but rather YEARS apart, with much happening in between.

Notice that Paul did not repeat the Kingdom Gospel preached by the twelve, but ONLY faith in the death, burial and resurrection on the third day, no water baptism for remission of sins, just grace through faith.

So, the question remains unanswered...why claim similarity when one can clearly see such a claim is false?

Was Paul guilty of the sin of omission? If so, then that guilt ties right back into God Himself if Paul was right about ALL of scripture being inspired by God. Are we now in good standing as accusers of God who is not guilty of any falsehood? Is it not more likely that PEOPLE are wrong when seeing the dichotomy between their claims and what's actually written? Are not those individuals wrong who claim what is contrary to what's written? Where did Paul ever claim that water baptism did anything in relation to sins being remitted through getting wet through dunking in water?

Some even go WAY too far by claiming that Peter was talking about "spiritual" baptism, which is not at all consistent with the words spoken. Nobody can go and BE spiritually baptized as an act in and of itself, which was given that under the Kingdom Gospel through the laying on of hands as that spiritual baptism through which THEY received Holy Spirit. Under the Gospel of Grace, salvation is instantaneous as is spiritual baptism and filling of Holy Spirit. Paul stated no command for anyone to go and BE baptized. He didn't need to command such.

Then the nay-sayers point at those who were under the Kingdom Gospel questioned by Paul as to if THEY had received Holy Spirit and yet stated that they had never even heard if there be such a One as Holy Spirit. They were under the Kingdom Gospel, which did indeed require water baptism and laying on of hands for receiving Holy Spirit.

This almost always causes brain farts in the minds of those fully indoctrinated into the Westernized system of pure religion as a mixture of human traditions from people's who did not originate from the biblical foundations of Eastern Judaism.

So, granted, many will still continue to parrot that imaginary similarity regardless of the textual distinctions, believing whatsoever they WANT to believe, giving greater weight to the false teachings of their pastors, parents, friends, et al. The text is so clear, which puts this all far outside the realm of personality and dogma.

Hope this helps to get some thinking more deeply about the paradigms of typical, Western thinking and pride.

MM

The scripture in my entire post reveal that the gospel message never changed:
The same message along with its requirements given by Peter was not limited to Jews; "For the promise is unto... as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39)

The Samaritans were the next to hear the message. (Jewish half-breeds/Acts 8:12-18) Keep in mind why the Samaritans were given the opportunity to hear the good news before the Gentiles. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth: to the Jew first, and then to the Greek." (Rom. 1:16)

The Gentiles heard the same message and obeyed when the command was given to be water baptized in the name of Jesus. (Acts 10:43-48)

The last account to provide all of the details included in Peter's initial message at Pentecost is found in Acts 19:1-7. This account reveals many things of which some are:
1. Believing in Jesus does not automatically result in receiving the Holy Ghost.
2. Paul was preaching the same message and requirements as initially presented by Peter some 20+ year prior.
3. Interesting; it was twelve men who began preaching the gospel message, and verse 7 states it was about twelve men who witnessed the same truth to those in Ephesus for 2-3 years after learning the truth themselves.
4. Some believe that the accounts recorded in Acts 2, 8, and 10 were just to establish salvation was available to all groups of humanity. However, Acts 19:1-7 dispels that notion. The account makes it clear that every single individual is required to believe and obey God's established plan of salvation.

Acts 19:7-10
And all the men were about twelve.


And he (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.


And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks."
 
Strange, as I told you, I was raised Pentecostal. The Holy Spirit and tongues were constsntly emphasised, also that we must accept everything written in the bible, nothing can be left out. The church also prided itself it stood full square on the message
Years later, when I had left the church, someone asked me to read a book, in it was a chapter on Paul's message of grace. I was literally stunned by what I read. I could have no righteousness of obeying the law, I could not be good enough for God. You see, I had heard none of that preached in the pentecostal church of my youth. Only the emphasis on the Holy Spirit and tongues, and how well we must live our lives.
God's command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin is not an OT law. Jesus prophesied that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations and would BEGIN in Jerusalem. And as prophesied, Peter preached the need to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin in Jerusalem. As such, it is not an OT command.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom. 6:3-6

Repentance and water baptism doesn't make us "good enough." It is Jesus' righteousness that makes all the difference.
 
I got saved young at a Pentecostal church. There was no outward emotion, but I became aware of my imperfections before God as I never had previously. And I felt much guilt because of them. Not because I was murdering people, stealing or committing adultery, I was far too young for any of that. And the people in the church were smartly dressed and the women all wore fashionable hats. And after the service, I would receive a Godly smile, a handshake and a relevant scripture verse if it was thought necessary. I wondered what I was doing in the church, they all looked nigh on sinless people to me, and I knew I wasn’t on the inside.

I imagined the people were as Godly on the inside as they appeared to be on the outside, and I felt even more guilt. This is no word of a lie, I imagined the married couples at the church all found sex disdainful, and only partook of it to produce offspring, and then they got it done as quickly as possible so they could return to their perfect state of holiness

I used to sit at home, wondering what was wrong with me, why couldn’t I be a Christian as everyone else I assumed was in the church.

Many times I went to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit but never did, I figured I was just not worthy enough to receive as others had

I ended up in a very dark place indeed, horrific in fact.

But then, I read Paul’s message of grace and my eyes were opened, and everything changed.
 
Paul is speaking of the new covenant, do you know what it is?
Not so.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, " Rom. 2:14-15
 
Not so.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, " Rom. 2:14-15
What is the new covenant?
 
No it definitely says who fills them. That would be the Holy Spirt, the Helper, the Comforter, the Third Person of the Godhead.

No where in Mark 16:17 does it say that ALL believers will do these things. Try again.

So confused what is that third persons name?

JESUS said in Mark 16:17 they shall speak with new tongues;

Not some, not maybe but shall.

No reaon to try again, just whated to show you vesers that says what happens when people are filled.

Have a BLESSED DAY.
 
Do you believe Phillip left the new believers who had been baptised in an unsaved state in Acts ch8

No not at all, I bet when Peter and John arived they greeted each other and Philip was with them when the Smaritinsa received the Holy Ghost.

That is my opinion, can't back it up with HIS word.

So he was there until they were saved.
 
No not at all, I bet when Peter and John arived they greeted each other and Philip was with them when the Smaritinsa received the Holy Ghost.

That is my opinion, can't back it up with HIS word.

So he was there until they were saved.
Well if you are correct, let us hope none of them died before Peter and John arrived
 
No not at all, I bet when Peter and John arived they greeted each other and Philip was with them when the Smaritinsa received the Holy Ghost.

That is my opinion, can't back it up with HIS word.

So he was there until they were saved.
So what is the new covenant?
 
Not so.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, " Rom. 2:14-15
Im surprised you have not been able to tell me what the new covenant is. For you have told me when we speak in tongues we have the knowledge of the message and can preach it. This is it:



This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.
”[b]

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

Hebrews10:15-17



Now relate that to Rom2:14&15
 
So are we to say because tongues aren’t mentioned it just means that the “details” were left out? That’s a strange logic.
In light of 2-3 accounts witnessing what is true, Yes.

Do you not realize that there are accounts in the bible that do not spell out every single detail required and/or associated in an experience? Consider not all scriptures address the need to repent. Some say we must be water baptized but do not reveal how the apostles administered water baptism. Some express the need to receive the Holy Ghost yet do not provide specific details on how that is achieved. If in fact the bible addressed these specific it would be enormous.

God's treasure is scattered throughout His Word. And that is why Paul said, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 2:15, 3:16