Oh.
What works are necessary to be saved?
NONE.
We are saved by the grace of God,,,through faith.
The Sin Nature is spiritual lust, not flesh and blood.
- Thread starter ATG
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What works are necessary to be saved?
NONE.
We are saved by the grace of God,,,through faith.
Agree. The poster I was responding to seemed to believe there were. I was trying to get clarification.
The problem with your post, and the reason for which I posted a "Disagree" icon is that you have conflated the spirit of man with the spirit of God. The illustration you provided doesn't even agree with your words.Not every man has a body, soul and spirit.
I'll give you the scripture,,,but sometimes to fully understand something the bible teaches, we DO need to
learn from those that study the bible. It DOES help us to understand better.
EVERY man has a body.
Every man has a soul.
Only saved persons have the spirit of God.
A body and soul = a person
A body, soul and spirit = a saved person
We all know what the body is.
The soul is: the mind, will and emotions of man
We all know what the spirit of God is.
Your verse:
1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I like this illustration:
Paul said this: "May YOUR spirit, soul and body be kept blameless". He didn't say, "May your soul and body, along with God's spirit" be kept blameless...." That would be ridiculous!
Consider the following passages, that they indicate the spirit of man is distinct from the Spirit of God:
1 Chronicles 5:26, "So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria... who took the Reubenites, the Gadites and the half-tribe of Manasseh into exile."
Whose spirit was stirred up? That of God, or that of Pul? Note the wording here is not "made alive" but simply "stirred up"; a temporary condition.
1 Corinthians 5:5 "hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord."
Is there any danger of the God's Spirit not being saved?
Consider also Paul's words regarding regeneration in Ephesians 2:1-5
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
In what way were we "dead" before being "made alive with Christ"? Physically? No; we were alive in mind and body. What part of us was made alive? Since we were already alive in mind and body, the only thing left is spirit.
Our bodies and minds are made alive when God breathes life (physical) into us at conception. Our spirits are made alive when we accept salvation in Jesus Christ. We actually get a "double portion" because the Holy Spirit comes to live in us. The distinction between the two (ours and God's) is asserted, again by Paul:
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
So, it is my view that Scripture teaches that humans are tripartite (spirit, soul and body), that the spirit of man is dead until made alive in Christ, and that the Holy Spirit resides in those made alive.
i do NOT believe the spirit of God is the same as the spirit of man.
This is why it's good to converse.
I don't doubt that I may have misspoken.
Hope you're on your keyboard because all the above is unnecessary.
Agreed.
Agreed.
See.
Next time instead of giving me one of those dumb X's....
explain WHY you disagree.
Just might be that we don't disagree AT ALL!
I do believe I mentioned that I am tripartite.
As I continue to consider this question, I think there is one passage that defines for us an answer:
Ephesians 2:2-3 KJV
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We were fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind. Not just "the flesh", as though this were some sort of spiritual nature that was imposed upon our otherwise neutral being.
He names to components of our being, our flesh, and our mind, and I think both should be understood in the same sort of way, having to do with the properties of our state of being.
Much love!
The problem is at the outset: Of course where ever flesh and body appear at one place in Scripture, it's only speaking of the natural body of flesh and blood. Therefore, that's meaningless to the Bible doctrine of bodies that are not natural, and of flesh that is not a natural body.
1. The inner man has a spiritual body, dwelling within the natural body.
1Co 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
2Co 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
2Co 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Eph 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
2Co 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
Mat 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
This is not the physical body, but the good or evil spiritual body of the inner man, whose eye is for lusting after the flesh, or for Christ after the Spirit.
Mat 26:26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
1Co 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
The bread of communion is not the physical body of Christ, but the bread and body of the hidden manna of the Spirit:
Jhn 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Rev 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna,
So then, now let's read certain Scriptures with spiritual eyes of the inner man:
Rom 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
The old man and body of sin is not physically crucified on our cross. The old man of sin is the corrupt inner man, that is crucified for Christ's sake, and is dead and passed away with His old sins:
Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
It's the new inner man and body of righteousness, that now lives within the natural body on earth. Which outer body is not used by the man of God for the good, and no more for evil.
Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Once gain, It's not the physical body that is dead. It's the double hearted life of the wretched inner man, who seeks to have one eye on the righteousness of Christ, and one eye on sin of the world.
2. Even as there are two different kinds of bodies revealed by Scripture, one natural and one spiritual, there is also two different kinds of flesh, one natural and one spiritual:
2Co 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
Col 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
1Pe 2:11
Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
The fleshly wisdom, mind, and lusts are not the physical body, brain, and tissues. As with the spiritual body, not all things of the flesh in Scripture are the natural body. There is the spiritual man and body of fleshly lusts, and there is the outer man of natural flesh and blood.
It's the fleshly lusts of the heart that wars with the soul, and defiles the hidden man of the heart:
Mat 15:18
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
It's not the natural body eating natural things, that defiles the inner man. It's not the natural flesh that has sin in it's tissues, that lusts against the soul.
Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
There is the spiritually minded inner man, and the fleshly minded. One has the mind of the Spirit, and the other's mind is on the flesh. One seeks the righteousness of God to please Him, and the other lusts for the flesh to please himself.
2Ti 3:2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters,…unthankful, unholy…lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
The natural flesh is no more responsible for the inner man's fleshly lusts, than the gun is for murdering a man.
I don't see a single instance in Scripture that tells us "the flesh" is that in which sin lives. Sin only lives in the fleshy minds of the sinful inner man.
"I don't see a single instance in Scripture that tells us "the flesh" is anything other than the body itself." Other than the many Scriptures speaking of a spiritual body of a man. And where the inner man of sin has a mind for flesh, not for Christ.
1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
The fleshly mind is the carnal mind of the sinful inner man, not the physical outward man. If having a natural body of flesh and blood is being carnal, then all men are carnal, including Jesus Christ come in the flesh.
But since being carnally minded is in opposition to spiritually minded, then the carnal or spiritual mind is of the spirit of a man, not of the physical body.
The corruption of the flesh is not sinful corruption, but only natural mortality of the flesh. Christ Himself makes naturally bodies for all creatures on earth. Natural flesh therefore is mortal but not sinful, since Christ does not make anything sinfully.
Jesus Christ does not make people with sin in our natural flesh, even as he does not make people to sin with our natural bodies.
And so now you fully argue as the natural man, where a man is only a body of natural flesh and blood, and the mind of a man is only the physical brain.
There is no spiritual man of the heart that is spiritually minded, but only the natural body, blood pump, and brain.
1Co 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
God does not have a natural brain, nor do His people have the brain of Jesus Christ.
The spiritual man has a spiritual body dwelling within the earthen vessel of the natural body. The spirit, heart, and mind of man created by God in His own image, is not the brain and blood pump of the natural flesh body.
Well said. The carnally minded man is into the flesh, the same as the fornicator is into sex.
1Co 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
And if the mind of a man is only his brain, then we would have the brain of Jesus, rather than the mind of the Spirit.
Reducing man to the outer body, brain, and skin tissues is the natural man, who rejects the soul, spirit, and mind of the inner man created by God, that dwells in the outer body of dust.
Gen 2:5
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
flesh ….v spirit
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, ( can’t commit sins of the flesh without a body of flesh and blood conceived within and then carried out with the flesh which developes a lust for that which it’s tasted ) uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16-21
when you eat a forbidden food you conceive of it in your mind and heart first but then the action is done with the flesh . And so the flesh begins to just after that thing which it tastes having no original eiol the flesh developed a hunger for the carnal
think of like an addiction . The body begins to become addicted and so even as the addict truly wants to and kings to be free spiritually and mentally , still they feed the hunger of thier flesh because thier has become a contention .
your right the seed is spiritual / emotional but the commission is fleshly and carnal . And so you end up seeing how the contention began early
“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
“Well said. The carnally minded man is into the flesh, the same as the fornicator is into sex.”
yes but also you can’t commit fornication or sexual sin without a body of flesh and blood . Think of addiction . Truly it begins as a seed like you have said but when it roots it’s rooting on the flesh . The addiction is of the flesh to whatever has been introduced to the body .
Sin is the same way we dabble and dare to touch the forbidden and then our flesh developed a taste for that thing which begins growing and cultivating a conflict as we grow and touch more and more of be he forbidden fruits in the world orettt soon our flesh is corrupted because it is ( crudely ) addicted to certain sins we’ve been partaking of in our lives and we crave after or lust after those sensual feelings that concern the flesh and not the spirit those feelings of the flesh and senses that humans are so drawn to the corrupt nature comes the first time we accept sinful thinking ( spirit of the mind) and it leads to the commission of sin ( flesh )
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:50
The problem of course with your Scriptural logic, is that's the whole point of demonizing the natural body in the first place.
It's not possible to please God in the flesh, when that flesh is sinful. It's not possible to please God with the body, by doing works in a sinful body.
Justification by Faith Alone apart from works with the body, demands that the body be the blame for evil doing, and not the soul. The natural flesh must therefore be made the source of all sin and evil, in order to blame it alone for evil sinning.
Those who are in the filthy flesh cannot please God...
They make natural flesh to be the filthy garment, that cannot possibly please the dinner host. Therefore, no matter how they act, they are still displeasing to God.
This is why Jesus Christ come in the flesh of man, must be rejected, else Jesus too could not possibly please God. Therefore, their Chris is come in an unnatural and unsinful flesh, so that He could please God with His supernatural body. (It truly is Christianized pagan demigods and heroes. The only reason they also could please the gods by their works, was because they were born with unnatural powerful bodies like the gods...)
I.e. Romans 8:8 is Faith Alone verification, that no one in natural flesh can possibly please God. No one in our sinful flesh can possibly walk as Jesus walked in His holy flesh.
And so naturally, the real logic of Faith Alone sinners, is that anyone who says they are pleasing God, especially as His Son, are only deceiving themselves, not having Jesus' supernatural flesh and pure blood to do so.
And anyone preaching justification by faith with works, is even more decieved, that the works of a sinful body, can ever be justified with the holy God. Being justified by works of faith, is trying to 'make ourself' acceptable to the dinner host, by adding jewelry onto the filthy garment. Or, on a swine's snout.
I don't see anyone being immune. As soon as children start to form thoughts and intents, they are sinful.
This is the evil judges of others thoughts on steroids.
Jas 2:4
Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
The only way for anyone to presume this, is if they remembered their own first thoughts, and they were evil. Or, they judge it as only natural being born sinful from the womb.
I'm still waiting on any such Faith Aloner judge to say, that they ever welcomed their newborn babe into the world, with "My own little child of hell! You evil little thing! I know your first little thought will be filthy!"
This is another pseudo-Christian lie, that Faith Aloners spew out in the name of Christ, for the world to have cause to despise and blaspheme His name.
Rom 2:24
For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations through you, as it is written.
Jesus Christ does not make little baby devils, whose only thoughts are evil from the womb. Even having to say this is a shame.
This is the evil judges of others thoughts on steroids.
Jas 2:4
Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
The only way for anyone to presume this, is if they remembered their own first thoughts, and they were evil. Or, they judge it as only natural being born sinful from the womb.
I'm still waiting on any such Faith Aloner judge to say, that they ever welcomed their newborn babe into the world, with "My own little child of hell! You evil little thing! I know your first little thought will be filthy!"
This is another pseudo-Christian lie, that Faith Aloners spew out in the name of Christ, for the world to have cause to despise and blaspheme His name.
Rom 2:24
For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations through you, as it is written.
Jesus Christ does not make little baby devils, whose only thoughts are evil from the womb. Even having to say this is a shame.
Not a single one of these verses suggests that "'the inner man has a spiritual body, dwelling within the natural body". That is simply unbiblical hogwash.
The physical body dies. It doesn't "release" a spiritual body that was hidden within; it is changed.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Scripture says you are wrong.
Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Romans 3:23 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...
Before looking at your answer, I'd like to throw out a simple challenge:
Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…
Until someone acknowledges that Christ must be the Maker of sin in natural flesh. Or, that the Scripture is false, and the devil is now the Maker of our 'sinful' bodies, and not Christ alone. Then no one can be taken seriously about claiming natural flesh is sinful.
The course of this world is the context. Which course is given by the devil. Which course is disobedience to God. It's the course given by the devil, that is now working in them disobeying God. That is not now working in them obeying God.
It's given by the devil, not by Jesus Christ. Therefore, it cannot be any thing made by Jesus Christ. If this sinful course of the devil is natural flesh and blood, then the devil is now a Maker of natural bodies, and not Jesus Christ alone.
Jon 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. And without him was not any thing made that was made…
Therefore this sinful course given by the devil cannot be natural flesh and blood made by Jesus Christ.
All have conversed in that sinful course in times past, but not all are now disobeying God. If that course is natural flesh and blood, then all on earth are now conversing therein. And so, the Scripture is once again false, that not all are now disobedient. Instead, by natural flesh and blood all are disobedient, and no one is now obeying God on earth.
Since all Scripture is true, than all are not now conversing in that sinful course, which therefore cannot be not natural flesh and blood of all men and women. Else, with conversion to Christ, the flesh itself is now changed from sinful to sinless.
Therefore, anyone believing that the natural flesh is sinful, must: 1. Acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Maker of sinful flesh, or that the god of this world is now the Maker of all natural bodies, not Christ. 2. Acknowledge that the sinful natural body is made into sinless flesh and blood by conversion to Jesus Christ.
Once again, if the sinful lusts are of, as in from the flesh, then the sinful course and lusts given by the devil, is natural flesh and blood: The devil is now the Maker of all natural bodies on earth. Else, Jesus Christ is the Maker of sinful lusts of the flesh.
And since Christ being the good Maker of all things natural, then as Scripture says, it's the hearts of sinful men in the flesh, that lust after the flesh.
Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Jas 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
(ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν) Our lusts in the flesh, not in the lusts of our flesh. Our lusts are from the heart, not from the flesh:
Mat 15:18
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Natural flesh does not lust nor defile the man. Rather, the lusting heart defiles the man. The sinful course of the devil is the lust of heart, that is conceived by men in rebellion against our own good and Holy God and Creator Jesus Christ.
Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
All men created in the image of God with natural flesh and blood, are weakened and estranged from God by conceiving our own lust against Christ, even as Lucifer in the beginning.
QUOTE="markss, post: 5681799, member: 294050"]
And were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.[/QUOTE]
Once again, if the nature of disobedience is natural flesh and blood, then Christ is the Maker of naturally disobedient bodies for His own wrath.
Rev 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
This Scripture also lies, that Christ created and creates all things for His pleasure, nor for wrath.
Hebrews{13:8}
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
And, if children are of wrath by natural flesh and blood, then all men on earth are now children of disobedience and wrath by creation, unless natural bodies are become sinless by conversion.
QUOTE="markss, post: 5681799, member: 294050"]
We were fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind. Not just "the flesh", as though this were some sort of spiritual nature that was imposed upon our otherwise neutral being.[/QUOTE]
Neutral being? That would be natural flesh and blood, that does the will of the heart and mind of a man.
The spiritual nature of sin is lust of the heart and mind, that wills the natural body to do evil against God and man. (ποιοῦντες τὰ θελήματα τῆς σαρκὸς καὶ τῶν διανοιῶν) Doing the will of the mind and in the flesh.
Even as lust of heart is judged the act, so also the will is done first in the mind, before also done in the flesh. Works of the flesh are the lusts of heart and mind's will done in and with our bodies:
2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
The Scripture speaks of people on earth that have sinned with corrupt hearts and evil imaginations. Not of babes created by Christ from the womb, that have done neither good nor evil:
Psa 22:10
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psa 8:2
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
Rom 9:9
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…
Until someone acknowledges that Christ must be the Maker of sin in natural flesh. Then no one can be taken seriously about claiming natural flesh is sinful. All they have is their sinful Christ read into Scripture of Jesus Christ.
Now this is well said. Lust of the heart can addict the body.
Lust is not created in the flesh at birth by Christ. Lust can addict the flesh. The body becomes addicted to what the spirit of man wills the body to do.
The lust is not in the tissue DNA, but from the heart can train the body to hunger for it. Whether for the good or the bad. The body that is exercise much, hungers for more exercise. The body that is made dormant, hungers for more dormancy, The body that eats meat and drinks wine, can hunger for more meat and wine. The body that eats herbs and drinks milk, will hunger for more herbs and milk.
1Co 8:8
But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
However, the lust of heart that does evil with the body, can also train the body for more evil, such as fornication, drunkenness, gluttony...
Exactly. The Spirit of the Lord strives with the hearts of men, not with their bodies.
Man is not only his body, but the heart given only to the body, can be as only flesh alone. The heart and spirit of man is beomce dead to God, as natural flesh without the spirit.
Thanks for the addiction input. I hadn't considered it before.
Since you don't show any other conclusion from Scriptures given, then it's just your unbelief in Scriptures given.
Natural theology of the soul being the body, and not departing from the body at death, is false.
Are you JW? They use that naturally theology for many things, such as torment of hell and punishment of the soul, is only a parable 'scare-tactic'. The soul is always with the body on earth, and in the grave. There is either eternal life for those raised from the dead, or eternal oblivion for those left in the grave...
They also reject that Jesus Christ was preaching in hell, while His body was in the tomb for three days. They also say that's why Jesus Christ could not be God, because God is only Spirit, and cannot become a flesh and blood body...
This of course is the first resurrection of the dead bodies in Christ, which are reunited with the living souls now in the presence of the Lord.
2Pe 1:13
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
2Co 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
The rest of the dead bodies will live again with their souls to be judged by works at the GWT.