Loss of salvation???
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“This is a terrible and wrong reason, but we each have lived our lives and all that matters is that we
believe in God and obey Him for salvation.” From your last post. Maybe it’s the way you worded it. I’m guessing you would agree that wording it as “that we believe in God for our salvation and obey Him” would be more correct.
Love covers not doing drugs. If we love ourselves and love God whose Spirit lives within us then we won’t destroy our bodies. Love covers all.
The Holy Spirit indeed produces the fruit for a tree would be dead with no root. Which is why we don’t really need rules. Would His Spirit break His own rules? All we have to do is surrender to Him.
i don't really catch the difference....
I usally say it like this:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey Him.
What say you?
I will concede.
But
I kind of see it like this (and I hate analogies but here goes)
And keep in mind I'm an old-fashioned kinda girl....
I know it would not be nice to miss making dinner 3 nights in a row.
But it would also be good for my husband to say:
WHAT! You're not making dinner AGAIN!
But, yes, I'll have to agree with you.
The word “and” equates to “+”. So I would disagree on faith+obedience=salvation. I would just leave it believe for salvation. If one truly believes, the conviction will come followed by surrender and obedience.
I think I get your analogy. Is that not what His Spirit does in reminding us constantly?
Many claim obeying the Lord is works based salvation which is people trying to earn their salvation by being obedient to the Lord.
They got that lame argument from the devil or one of his demons
Are we discussisng HOW a person becomes saved?
This is accomplished by faith,,through our faith by the grace of God.
Even in OT times, people were saved by faith.
When I give my 2 items, i'm usually referring to persons that do not know Jesus but believe in God because He has revealed Himself.
This is found in
Romans 1:20-21
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not [a]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
So, yes
1. Believe in God
2. Obey God
As Christian theology teaches, we are saved the moment we believe in our Savior.
The word BELIEVE carries with it the idea of obedience, trust, faith.
Just as DISBELIEVE carries the idea of DISBELIEVE.
So if we BELIEVE in Jesus we will also OBEY Him.
If it concerns you that the word AND is adding something to faith...
well, actually, it is.
Jesus taught us that we are to love our neighbor.
You've just added something to faith....love for our neighbor.
More than that!
Some believe that FAITH is a work....
when Paul specifically stated that if it is of works then it is not of grace.
Romans 11:6
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer [a]on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
All Jesus taught was about doing good works.
And Paul.
All the Apostles that wrote scripture.
And yet God has ORDAINED that we walk in good works!
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Those NOT abiding in Christ being led by the Holy Spirit based on God's Word to walk in good works are disqualifying themselves from salvation because they are walking after the flesh which causes them to be corrupt:
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
Hebrews 2:2,3
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation
Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.
Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who was dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)
The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.
Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!
Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who was dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)
The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.
Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!
Did I not predect you would say this?
I know because those with odd ideas are not interested in what the Apostles taught.
let alone those they taught in turn.
However, this is how we can arrive at the truth...IF we care to know it.
The anti-Nicene Fathers, which are the ones I read, were influenced by:
PAUL
PETER
JOHN
And the very next "generation" down would be:
CLEMENT OF ROME
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
POLYCARP
JUSTIN MARTYR IRENAEUS
I post this for some that might be interested to learn the religion they practice.
History did NOT end with the book of Acts.
You've just stated that the Apostles,,,whom you claim to trust...
did a most terrible job of passing on what they knew.
If you can attain the ultimate source from the NT alone...
why do you state a belief system that does not conform to the early church?
And instead has been recently invented?
John, which you noted above,,,
taught Ignatius.
Scholars study the ECFs.
Because it is THEY that lived at the time and learned from the Apostles who learned from Jesus.
And, BTW, I'm sure you must know that the New Testament was asssembled by the very persons you do not trust.
It's a conundrum.
Wow.
You've just created the Christian dilemma! (for the OSAS'ers).
(as opposed to the Islamic dilemma).
Here's what you stated:
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
You're a smart gal HigherGospel.
Learn about the ECFs.
They confirm that OSAS is not biblical and they knew the writers of the New Testment.
Actually I'm not the one who wrote Galatians 6:7-8
I believe it is God's Word and as such I encourage others to accept it as being God's Word as well.
The OSAS crowd only believes we reap what we sow when they are passing around the offering plate their their church when they tell everybody "We be good ground up in here - if you sow in to our work the Lord gonna bless you sho nuff!"
After that they deny that we reap what we sow....
According to the Lord, seedtime and harvest (sowing and reaping) is the operating system of the Kingdom of God:
Mark 4:26 (see Genesis 1:11 also)
And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground
Genesis 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
You don't know what the Islamic dilemma is.
No problem.
Catch you next time around !
I don't follow islam.
They reject Jesus which is all I need to know.
I know that islam and calvinism have something in common - they both claim that any and everything that happens in this world not only happened because their "god" wanted it to happen, they believe their "god" caused it to happen.
Meaning when a child molester rapes an innocent little child they thing it was not just their "god's" will for the child to be raped, but their "god" caused the child molester to rape the child.
This of course is because calvinism and islam both serve the devil.
Neither do I HG.
But I do know about the reformed faith.
And you're right about what they teach.
God bless you!
I didn’t add loving our neighbor to faith. Loving our neighbor comes from His Spirit.
But DID jesus say to love our neighbor?
HE has just added something to faith.
FAITH ALONE is a dead faith.
I guess we're discussing Sola Fide.