Mind of the Spirit / Mind of the Flesh

markss said:

There is no credit to us, all good that comes through us is from the Spirit of Christ in us. If we only trust Jesus, without any thought concerning ourselves except to know that we are in the faith, we will walk in His Spirit, having only submitted to Him.

Work (katergadzomai - perform your work) out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works (ergon - do a work) withing you to will and to do what pleases Him.

Even making the right choice comes from God who is repairing our will, and restoring our ability.

Much love!

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Can I ask you to read the folloiwng, it shows just how earnest Saul was about obeying the law. He admitted he was condemned by the law because of what went on on the inside of him:
Someone says to a young teenager

‘’The righteous/justified will obey the TC,

Let us suppose the young teenager is not in ignorance as to what is entailed in obeying the TC, they know no watered down version of them exists. Before them stands the tenth commandment. They must NOT lust/ dwell on any impure thought. What will go through the young teenagers mind?



‘’I must not dwell on any impure thought, if I do it shows I Am not justified before God and will end up in hell’’

Im sure the young man would be petrified of such thoughts, what could you fear more, as a believer than being cast into hell for eternity?

Can you escape thinking of what you fear, or, will thoughts of what you fear consume you? Speaking for myself, when I was young, the more I feared something, the more wild imaginations went through my mind concerning what I feared, and so, concerning the young teenager:

‘’I don’t want to go to hell, I must not dwell on any impure thought, I must not’’



What will be the result? Well it shouldn‘t take much discernment to know. But Paul can explain it. In Rom7:7-11 he is speaking of the time the law came to him, as a thirteen year old, for that is when a young Jewish lad made a personal commitment to God:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence/sexual desire/passions. For without the law sin was dead. Rom7:7&8

markss said:

Paul also spoke this way in:

Romans 7:5 KJV
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The Law provokes sin. Tell the flesh "No", and suddenly that's all the flesh desires. What is your thought on what he means in saying "the motions of sin . . . did work in our members", that is, in our body parts?

Romans 7:6 KJV
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Much love!

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Absolutely, and the more in earnest you are about obeying the law to be righteous, the more sins power in you grows, as: The power of sin is the law
Imagine a young person petrefied of impure thoughts because they believe they can condemn them/send them to hell as they transgress the commandment.. Sin in their life will go off the richter scale. It will take time, but when it happens, you have no hope of fighting back, even if in your mind you want to

markss said:

I must not be communicating my question well. I'm interested in what changed in Paul that he said, It's not me any longer that is sinning, it's sin that lives in me.

Regardless, I don't want to just circle around this one, moving on . . .

Much love!

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If I may answer it is
Romans 8 where he says the flesh is not redeemed our Spirits are by God for us, to make us new in God's Spirit and Truth through Son for us as risen where the new life more abundantly begins. John 10:10b
No flesh will ever please God after Son did the completed work first for us all Romans 8:1-3, John 19:30 it is finished done for us to be new in the risen Son if you willingly believe between God and you first.

I have noticed at the end of Romans 7, after getting annihilated by Chapter 7, in me trying to do anything good. he ends with Romans 7 who then can save us, since we the flesh people can't do it
then Romans 8 begins

A parallel I see is in Matthew 19 towards the end of that Chapter when the disciples ask Jesus who then can be saved? Watching that rich man walk away sad, not able to let go of his stuff here on earth. Does not mean he had to that then and there. It is a willing to do whatever Father asks anyone to do, between God and you. Not as those verses gets used by religions to do it or else attitudes and steal money and possessions for others. and say it is legal, waht a trickery still out and about.
Jesus told them
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Luke 18:27
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

now does that burial, death and resurrection make since? We are made new in the rise Son, once beleive God, we each are on the way to see it all in thanksgiving and praise to God Father by Son for us all. It is done for us to be done with being under Law and raised up new upholding law as good, perfect and see the love of God overcame evil given us all through Son to believe it or not each consciously so.

So we get to see, ourself or anyone cannot please God in the flesh ever since Christ did it for us all, John 19:30. John 1:29 completed. Yet flesh can and does please others in gatherings, and so people look good to each other, yet not to God himself, what, I try, I hear readers say, I am good I want to do good and do it ask so and so!!!!!!!!!!! How you doing in that try? Are you perfect? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! no one is or weever could be or can be.
Then believe me God Father speaking. I sent Son to save you and you to reckon self dead to sin (Romans 6:1-12) thanks to Son taking it away for you in his one time willing death for everyone according to 1 John 2

God does just love us all y'all

markss said:

Paul also spoke this way in:
What is your thought on what he means in saying "the motions of sin . . . did work in our members", that is, in our body parts?
!

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Sorry Ive only just seen this, NIV:
For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

If I said to you: ''If you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell''
What is the first thought that would come into your head if you believed me? You would have to believe a law of God existed concerning that
Im making an important point here. It would not matter how much you wanted to avoid thinking of the creature it would be in vain. In the end you would be thinking of it, morning, noon and night, it would be death to you.
If you earnestly live under the law, sinfull passions will; be aroused in you by it. For you will fear breaking the law greatly, and you cannot escape thinking of what you fear. The more you fear something, the more you will think about it

markss said:

Paul also spoke this way in:

Romans 7:5 KJV
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The Law provokes sin. Tell the flesh "No", and suddenly that's all the flesh desires. What is your thought on what he means in saying "the motions of sin . . . did work in our members", that is, in our body parts?

Romans 7:6 KJV
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Much love!

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BTW, working in our members, I would say is what goes on, on the inside of us. Rom7:7-11 is about coveting, what goes on, on the inside of man, his thoughts, desires. And in my view, the command not to covet/transgressing it is what is being written about in verses14-23. Paul is elaborating of what he wrote in 7-11

Undergrace1 said:

Sorry Ive only just seen this, NIV:
For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

If I said to you: ''If you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell''
What is the first thought that would come into your head if you believed me? You would have to believe a law of God existed concerning that
Im making an important point here. It would not matter how much you wanted to avoid thinking of the creature it would be in vain. In the end you would be thinking of it, morning, noon and night, it would be death to you.
If you earnestly live under the law, sinfull passions will; be aroused in you by it. For you will fear breaking the law greatly, and you cannot escape thinking of what you fear. The more you fear something, the more you will think about it

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Sounds to me from your response, you are talking about when Jesus said if you lust with your eye to another person a woman in this case. you have already committed adultery and so pluck out your eyes. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for a part of you to go to Heaven than your whole body go to Hell.

That is the reality of being under Law to do it perfect or else, as no way Under Law anyone can be Perfect. I would end up being a Torso. My Tongue cut off, my eyes gouged out, my arms cut off, my legs as well. To make it to Heaven under Law I would have to become a torso. We have to be perfect and no one can be.
That is why Son came here to earth to reconcile us all first in his one time willing death alone, it is done John 19:30 we are reconciled 2 Cor 5:17-22, forgiven Eph 1:7, accepted Eph 1:6, sealed by God for us all that choose to believe God get sealed to see it all over time in not giving up, and we each see it in truth, each person in different stages of growth. Hebrews 5:12-6:3, Hebrews 4:9-13

Actually from being taught by God personally listening as each are able to do still. I heard God say, you are on your way to do, what ever you think about, especially revealed in Proverbs 23:1-7 to me to see. so done be prone to any flesh appetite. I put a knife to my throat
Be dead to it Romans 6:12 yet read the whole Chapter please and trust Father to see only in and through you to love Father's way, being willing to not fight back at self or anyone else in the first born flesh, that is now reckoned dead by God for you to learn new daily in trust, no matter what, thanks Brother as we each learn to grow up into God's maturity

markss said:

"Fallen from grace" is how Paul called it to the Galatian church.

I would disagree though on our fighting back. I went through a severe episode of that, about a year long, it was horrible! But it was broken as my church prayed for me, and I was restored, only, that time was wasted.

Much love!

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Just to emphasise, body parts, members. What sin are they affected by? Coveting, desires, lust.
A christian can fight back, they are not under law, but someone who is earnestly under the law, I would say no. I know I could not when I was young

markss said:

I would add that our efforts to keep the Law to stay right with God, this is not a work of the Spirit, it is of the flesh, and will not prosper.

Much love!

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yet it can and is once willing between God and you. Having no more excuse for sin anymore, Facing it forward daily in thanks to God for taking it all away first, seeing to add no more to anyone else Romans 14 a deep Chapter that gets misused as only the food Chapter it is much deeper, thanks
Do I, you do law to get in or because by God we are in? forced or willing
Look up willing in biblegateway.com and see how many verses God searches for the willingly ones. That is who God is in charge of are the willing ones

markss said:

I appreciate your trust! I thought about that as I uploaded it . . . I don't blame anyone who skips over it.

I see this more as that when we are born again there is introduced a new reality in us, but it is opposed by the remnant of who we used to be.

For me the best anology is that our life before Christ was like someone who was blind and reckless driving a wrecked car. Lots of motion, lots of damage, no real progress towards a destination.

Now there is a new driver - the regenerate - but the car is still a wreck. It pulls to one side, brakes are no good, no power, on and on. As we go along, we learn better how to control it, even make some repairs, like that.

We have a new mind of Christ, but our brains are still wired for the life of the flesh. So we learn to superimpose the will of God, expressed in the desires of our new spirit, over the corrupt lusts of the flesh. As we go along, the brain rewires itself in accordance with our choices in our Christian walk.

If we go back to making the wrong choices, choices based in the desires of the flesh,

Galatians 2:18 KJV
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

1 Peter 1:14 KJV
14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

We start rewiring our brains again towards sin.

There are a number of places the Bible speaks in this manner, that we need to be transformed by renewing our minds, etc.

So I'm very interested in your thoughts on all this.

Much love!

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markss
Very nice post.
It explains very well the transformation we must go through if we believe.

I would say that with the help of the Holy Spirit, our love for jesus will cause this transformation by making correct choices when faced with them and by becoming ever more aware of sin, as the Holy Spirit convicts us.

It should be said that some change very quickly,,,
and some will take more time...but as long as we head toward our objective - jesus - we will be on the right road.

markss said:

I appreciate your trust! I thought about that as I uploaded it . . . I don't blame anyone who skips over it.

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Maybe I'm just reckless.

markss said:

I see this more as that when we are born again there is introduced a new reality in us, but it is opposed by the remnant of who we used to be.

For me the best anology is that our life before Christ was like someone who was blind and reckless driving a wrecked car. Lots of motion, lots of damage, no real progress towards a destination.

Now there is a new driver - the regenerate - but the car is still a wreck. It pulls to one side, brakes are no good, no power, on and on. As we go along, we learn better how to control it, even make some repairs, like that.

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I lean toward looking at it as fire on chauffeur for another. The former one was reckless, always aiming for the thrill; but this more of the defensive driver, and the ride is more scenic and pleasant.

markss said:

We have a new mind of Christ, but our brains are still wired for the life of the flesh. So we learn to superimpose the will of God, expressed in the desires of our new spirit, over the corrupt lusts of the flesh. As we go along, the brain rewires itself in accordance with our choices in our Christian walk.

If we go back to making the wrong choices, choices based in the desires of the flesh,

Galatians 2:18 KJV
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

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Gal 2:18 was written alongside the context of Paul confronting Cephas (Is Cephas so-called here because he is found reverting back from Peter?) per Gal 2:11 offering the reason, "because he stood condemned." Here, I don't think the statement "he stood condemned" necessarily meant that Peter had been condemned but rather he, Peter, postured himself as if he were 'convicted' by those 'certain men that came from James" and "he began to draw back and separate himself" from eating with the Gentiles. So, in using Peter as example, the "if, then" hypothesis Paul uses illustrates how, in doing the same, would 'make myself a transgressor.'

I can't imagine that our brains are 'still wired for the life of the flesh.' And I can't imagine that Peter wanted to 'go back there' either. But in the example, he revealed a residual fear of men that he had initially displayed in denying Christ three times. So, I believe that the sense of condemnation is more at issue than any sort of reverting back to the corrupt lusts of the flesh. And, renewing our mind to the reality, "there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus (ro 8:11)" renews our minds and 'takes captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ (2Co 10:5)."

markss said:

1 Peter 1:14 KJV
14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

We start rewiring our brains again towards sin.

There are a number of places the Bible speaks in this manner, that we need to be transformed by renewing our minds, etc.

So I'm very interested in your thoughts on all this.

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Peter got this in 1Peter 1's speaking in context of a Living Hope, with regard to his exhortation to 'gird up your mind, be sober, set your hope fully on the grace to be given at the revelation of Jesus Christ (1Pet 1:13), and speaking of 'your former ignorance' is speaking in terms of the ignorance of such a hope, and why you'd think, in ignorance, your need to 'fall in' line with the rest of the world in order to 'get along.'

markss said:

This is from a study I did mapping out the latter portion of Romans 7, to understand our composition before and after being regenerated.

Much love!

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I saw your talking about the mind of Christ, a subject that fascinates me because Gods word doesn't talk much at all about how it affects the faither.

If you know what to look for, the effects of the Holy spirit are easily found in Gods word. But not the mind of Christ.

How would you describe having the mind of Christ? What is an obvious thing that happens?

markss said:

For me calling out the "members" is further indication we're talking about corruption in our physical bodies.

Much love!

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that is a fact, Romand 6,7,8 a recap of Chapters 3-5

markss said:

I think the whole of creations, and of God's covenants with man are for the purpose of God gathering together a family of those who choose to love Him, who want to be with Him. The willing ones, yes!

Much love!

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On the very first day anyone believes God willingly Eph 1:13, God seals these to see and be new in his love and mercy of Son for all.
The new begins on day one anyone chooses to beleive God in his love and mercy of Son for them. It is not a bunch of religious rules

• Cleansing from "Dead Works": The focus is on moving from guilt-driven religious acts to serving God with a free heart.
• The New Covenant: Christ’s sacrifice as Mediator provides a once-for-all cleansing, freeing believers from a continuous, contagious, guilty conscience.
• God not only forgives sin but he forgets sin and he cleanses the guilty conscience.

Hebrews 10 the entire Chapter a security for us from God to us through the Author of hebrews, that no one knows who wrote it for sure, God must have!