Loss of salvation???

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GWH said:
Being in the Navy and Army is when I got used to using acronyms.
The ones I use are listed in the About section of my profile.
Would you like to ban me/my ID initials?
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I figured it was from the military. Vets can usually tell who other vets are. Anyways I was just joking although they do aggravate me sometimes. I will admit they are useful sometimes especially for longer terms like tulip. And of course I would never want to ban the person.
 
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Cameron143 said:
The Bible doesn't say those at Cornelius' house were filled with the Spirit. It says the Spirit fell on them.
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Peter speaking:
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, (Cornelius and others) as on us at the beginning." Acts 11:15

What Peter refers to in the above scripture is recorded in Acts 2:4. "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4
 
Cameron143 said:
The baptism with the Spirit by Jesus is what happened in Acts 2 and 10, and throughout the book of Acts.

The filling of the Spirit is the same as the filling of the tabernacle and temple with God's presence. Just as God filled those places with His presence, He fills the believer with His presence.
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Then how is that not part of the baptism? How could the disciples be led of the Spirit if they were not filled at the same time they were indwelt, sealed and gifted?
 
Ouch said:
I appriacate you understand we need to be baptized.

What makes me sad and confuse is why the battle with how we get rid out our sins?

Why not just take HIS word for what it says and do it????

Thank you, for your imput, you are right I really thought they did since they all same just about the same thing with some words moved around, altered, deleted or mipulated.

I asked AI, "in what sense are the new bible translations knockoff of the kjv"

AI Overview
New Bible translations, particularly the New King James Version (NKJV), are often considered derivatives of the 1611 King James Version (KJV) because they largely retain the same Textus Receptus manuscript base and formal equivalence (word-for-word) translation philosophy. While updating archaic language for modern readers, these translations preserve the structure, phrasing, and beauty of the original KJV.
Textual Basis: The NKJV, in particular, maintains the same, or very similar, Hebrew and Greek manuscripts (Textus Receptus) that were used in the original 1611 KJV, rather than the older manuscripts used in more modern translations like the NIV or ESV.
"Complete Equivalence": The NKJV translates using a "complete equivalence" philosophy, which mirrors the literal, word-for-word approach of the original KJV, rather than a phrase-by-phrase or thought-for-thought approach.
Retained Phrasing: Despite updating words like "thee" and "thou," the NKJV often retains the cadence and phrasing of the original 1611 text, making it feel like a "knockoff" or a modernized update rather than a completely new translation.
Goal of Accuracy: The goal of the NKJV was specifically to update the language while retaining the authority and accuracy of the KJV's original rendering.
While other translations like the NIV rely on different manuscripts, the NKJV is specifically designed to be a direct successor, making it the primary example of a modern "knockoff" (or updated version) of the KJV.

So which one is right?

I beleive the KJV bible was put together buy men lead by the Holy Spirit.

Just like Moses the first 5 books of the OT which was not born for hundreds of years later, and was written with PERFECTION.

One fact, if we have different rule books with different meanings then we have differetn rules.

GODS rules WILL NOT CHANGE HE gave us a book to follow, so it's our choice which one to pick, and I'm sticking with the KJV.

So to me what ever book your reading double check with the KJV, as it appears you do.

One would ask, why of men or orgizations have the disire to make a new set of rules for all to follow? Now I can understand, like the NKJV but why the rest?

To move on, Mark 16:16 is very clear.

If you believe you will be baptized and you will be saved.

That lines up with what JESUS said in John 3:5 and Peter in Acts 2:38.

JESUS goes on to say if you don't believe NOT you are damned, if you don't believe HIS WORD TO BE TRUE why would you get baptized so you will be damned.

So it's not just believing gets you saved, it's ALL OF HIS WORD put together.

Now let's look at the last thing you said,

"No. Baptism is an outward sign of faith. A visible public expression of the invisible faith."

WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT? Really why?
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There are a handful of versions that were derived from the KJV. Many of the modern versions were translated from the Hebrew and Greek texts. None of them including the KJV are perfect. There is no way to perfectly translate something from one language to another unless the original author is bilingual and translates it himself. We do have many tools at our disposal now such as concordances and dictionaries that we can doublecheck with. And no I don’t doublecheck everything to the KJV. When I double check I doublecheck to the Greek or the Hebrew.

With the KJV for instance, do you use the modern version or the original?

I’ll just agree to disagree on the Bible being a rule book.

As far as baptism I’ll just put it this way. When one truly believes and places their faith in Christ they are saved. They are saved from that point, not from the point that they get wet. We are cleansed by His blood. Nothing we do can remove our sins. Just as we are called to love each other, give to the poor, etc., these things don’t save us. We do them because we are saved.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
There are a handful of versions that were derived from the KJV. Many of the modern versions were translated from the Hebrew and Greek texts. None of them including the KJV are perfect. There is no way to perfectly translate something from one language to another unless the original author is bilingual and translates it himself. We do have many tools at our disposal now such as concordances and dictionaries that we can doublecheck with. And no I don’t doublecheck everything to the KJV. When I double check I doublecheck to the Greek or the Hebrew.

With the KJV for instance, do you use the modern version or the original?

I’ll just agree to disagree on the Bible being a rule book.

As far as baptism I’ll just put it this way. When one truly believes and places their faith in Christ they are saved. They are saved from that point, not from the point that they get wet. We are cleansed by His blood. Nothing we do can remove our sins. Just as we are called to love each other, give to the poor, etc., these things don’t save us. We do them because we are saved.
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Agreed on all but I do hope you believe that Jesus said to be baptized and that baptism was always accomplished with water.

But I'm writing to ask about a comment you made above.

I'LL JUST AGREE TO DISGREE ON THE BIBLE BEING A RULE BOOK.

I'd like to address the NT.
Is the NT not a rule book??
 
Wansvic said:
Peter speaking:
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, (Cornelius and others) as on us at the beginning." Acts 11:15

What Peter refers to in the above scripture is recorded in Acts 2:4. "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4
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Were the disciples saved before Pentecost and were they of Jesus?
 
sawdust said:
Then how is that not part of the baptism? How could the disciples be led of the Spirit if they were not filled at the same time they were indwelt, sealed and gifted?
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Were the disciples saved before Pentecost and were they of Jesus?
 
Toknow said:
Agreed on all but I do hope you believe that Jesus said to be baptized and that baptism was always accomplished with water.

But I'm writing to ask about a comment you made above.

I'LL JUST AGREE TO DISGREE ON THE BIBLE BEING A RULE BOOK.

I'd like to address the NT.
Is the NT not a rule book??
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Jesus commanded many things. We do those things out of our love for Him. They are an effect of our salvation, not the cause.

No I don’t see it as a rule book. I believe looking at it as a rule book takes the love out of it. It would be like a baseball player following the rules because he doesn’t want to get caught cheating vs him following the rules because his love for the game. Or a child obeying his parents because he doesn’t want a whoopin vs him obeying his parents because he loves and respects them. That’s the way I see it. I don’t look at it as rules I have to follow but more of what I can do to please God. Are they rules or simply a list of things He enjoys seeing us do? Do we do them to avoid punishment or to please Him?
 
Toknow said:
Here's easy believism MM:

A member, on another Forum, who clearly stated that he could blaspheme God and STILL BE SAVED.
That is also known as greasy grace by some.

And THIS is what the non-biblical teaching by some of OSAS will bring to.

This incorrect teaching will CAUSE some to lose their salvation because they will be living lives of sin...
and the NT teaches that we are to live a very particular way.
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Hello Fran.
 
Toknow said:
Yes sir.
I am STATING, not implying,
that baptism is accomplished with WATER.

We BY ONE SPRIT ARE BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY... 1 Cor 12:13

Did you not know that when we are baptized we are joined to the BODY OF CHRIST?
By ONE SPIRIT...
unless you believe that there is more than one God or one Spirit.
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That has every appearance of jamming water into every baptism mentioned throughout scripture. What is stated in the Didache is of no consequence, not to mention what was written by the Nicene and Antenicene fathers who were influenced by Platonian and Aristotillian thinking.

That which is axtra-biblica is of no use in this topic given that proximity to the original autographs and antiquity lend not enough to the information we have available to know that injection of water into all baptism is without foundation, and neither does it align with what we receive from the instructure given in 1 John 2:27 as the final and ultimate Source for ALL truth.

Additionally, I have indeed learned from church history, contrary to your assumptions about me and my educational background. My Th.D diploma is somewhat more than just a piece of paper on the wall of my office with me sitting here with spittle running down my chin, contrary to the imagery that some out there may have about me.

Thanks for clarifying.

MM
 
Toknow said:
What does sinless perfection - which does not exist - have to do with forfeiting one's salvation?
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Exactly. Conversely, I can ask you what sin has to do with an alleged loss of slavation? Christ died for ALL our sins, not just some.

MM
 
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Just_A__Follower said:
Jesus commanded many things. We do those things out of our love for Him. They are an effect of our salvation, not the cause.

No I don’t see it as a rule book. I believe looking at it as a rule book takes the love out of it. It would be like a baseball player following the rules because he doesn’t want to get caught cheating vs him following the rules because his love for the game. Or a child obeying his parents because he doesn’t want a whoopin vs him obeying his parents because he loves and respects them. That’s the way I see it. I don’t look at it as rules I have to follow but more of what I can do to please God. Are they rules or simply a list of things He enjoys seeing us do? Do we do them to avoid punishment or to please Him?
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I think we agree.
But Jesus left us with rules nonetheless.

The reason why we do them is a different matter.
Some (very few) on these Forums state that they follow them out of fear of going to hell.
This is a terrible and wrong reason, but we each have lived our lives and all that matters is that we
believe in God and obey Him for salvation.

I believe that to say that the NT is NOT a rule book makes one think that there are no rules contained in it.
 
Musicmaster said:
Allegorizing that kingdom is a common practice, but we do have this that some also allegorize into something that it clearly is not saying:
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Allegory is a literary device, it is no means by which something is made unreal.
 
Toknow said:
I think we agree.
But Jesus left us with rules nonetheless.

The reason why we do them is a different matter.
Some (very few) on these Forums state that they follow them out of fear of going to hell.
This is a terrible and wrong reason, but we each have lived our lives and all that matters is that we
believe in God and obey Him for salvation.

I believe that to say that the NT is NOT a rule book makes one think that there are no rules contained in it.
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“Obey Him for salvation” sounds like one is only obeying Him to get a reward to me I’ll agree to disagree on that.

The problem with rules is that they don’t cover everything and humans tend to like to add to them or subtract from them. Humans also like to find the loopholes to get around them. There’s a reason Jesus said the two greatest commandments were loving God and loving our neighbors. I don’t need a rule on giving to the poor. If I love the poor that giving comes naturally There’s no rule that says I shouldn’t drive my truck through my neighbor’s flowerbed, but if I love them I naturally won’t do that.

What rules do you see that love and the fruits of the Spirit don’t cover? What fruits of the Spirit do not come from love? God is the root. God is love. God produces the fruit in us because He loves us. Love is the first fruit and the underlying principle for all the rest.
 
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