The Sin Nature is spiritual lust, not flesh and blood.

ATG · Feb 5, 2026

Toknow said:
Jas 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We see in the relationship, that the works are done by the spirit, not done by the body alone. And faith alone is as a natural dead body without the spirit, that does the works.

Well, that was quite a leap! But I do agree.

My training was math, and God writes much of His Scripture in analog: If A=B, then B =A. It's also called comparison analyses.

Jas 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In first part of the analogy, A is the body. B is the spirit. C is death. In the second part, D is faith, E is works, F is death.

Even as A without B is C, so also D without E is F: A body = D faith. B spirit = E works. C death = F death.

The body is faith, the spirit is works, and death is death. Therefore, It's the spirit of a man that does the works, and the body is the faith, that is dead without the works of the spirit. Since the works E are the spirit B, then it's the spirit responsible for the works, not the body. Therefore, the soul of a man is judged by the works of the spirit with the body. The body is not judged for the works.

However, contrary to Christ's spiritual analysis of works, Faith Alone says that B spirit = D faith, and A body = E works. Hence, it's the spirit that has the faith, and the body does the works.

Which is what Faith Alone justification is: Faith Alone in the spirit justifies the man, without the works of the body. The spirit is alive by Faith Alone, while the body is dead by sinful works.

It's the spiritual illusion of having life with God by Faith Alone, that is in spirit only, not with works of the body. I.e. in spirit by our Faith Alone we bless you, while in works we are dead to you:

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

It's the Christian delusion and silliness of being with someone in spirit, while doing nothing for them with works. Even as their faith is in spirit alone, so is their justification only in spirit, not with works:

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Honest Adult Christians, that know our works justify us by faith, and not our faith without works, can play the game for fun: "Hey, I'm with you in spirit brother!" "Forget that, help me get the work done!" Childish Faith Alone Christians actually mean it, even to the point of trusting their eternal souls on it.

When James 2 says that faith without works is dead, being alone, Jesus Christ is saying that their faith is dead as a body without spirit, and their spirit is dead to God and man, as a corpse without works.

ATG · Feb 5, 2026

Toknow said:
Our faith, to be complete, must activate the body to do good.

Well said. Even as the complete man is tripart body, spirit, and soul. So is justifying faith two-part: Faith with works. A body with spirit.

Faith without works is the physical part without the spiritual work. A bag of dirt without seed. A hunk of metal without gas.

Does the seed or the dirt do the work in the dirt? The metal or the gas in the metal?

Toknow · Feb 5, 2026

ATG said:
I've seen this a couple times from you elsewhere, but I'm not so sure about it. You say every man has body, soul, and spirit, which Scripture agrees:

Pro 18:14
The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

Jas 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

But then you say only the saved souls have spirit? As though the unsaved only have body and soul?

Do you mean only the saved have soul, body, spirit, and the Spirit of Christ?

Not every man has a body, soul and spirit.
I'll give you the scripture,,,but sometimes to fully understand something the bible teaches, we DO need to
learn from those that study the bible. It DOES help us to understand better.

EVERY man has a body.
Every man has a soul.
Only saved persons have the spirit of God.

A body and soul = a person
A body, soul and spirit = a saved person

We all know what the body is.
The soul is: the mind, will and emotions of man
We all know what the spirit of God is.

Your verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I like this illustration:

4fbdd0_22c6b3be165043dba6bda9a5fc300039~mv2.jpg

ATG · Feb 5, 2026

markss said:
When I've done word studies, in every case wkere sarx (flesh) or soma (body) appear, where the context specifies whether this is the physical body or something else, the physical body is meant.

I don't see a single instance in Scripture that tells us "the flesh" in which sin lives is anything other than the body itself.

Now, this is a Scriptural case against my argument. Thank you for that. And at first glance, it at least appears convincing.

But, I have to come back later to look at it. I'm looking forward to it myself.

Cameron143 · Feb 5, 2026

Toknow said:
Oh.

jesus said to ACT on His words...

Matthew 7:24
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, [p]may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock

ACTING on something means you're DOING something.
There's a whole list of things Jesus said to do.
Do you really need it?

Jesus said to visit the sick.
He said to pray.
He said to do the will of the Father so we must know what that will is.
He said to feed the poor.
He said to be a shining light.
He said to be the salt of the earth.

Really...you certainly know.

Only those that are necessary for salvation.

Toknow · Feb 5, 2026

ATG said:
My training was math,

My admiration for you abounds!
Really.

But it's really late here and I'd like to give this post its due attention.
tomorrow.

and God writes much of His Scripture in analog: If A=B, then B =A. It's also called comparison analyses.

Jas 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In first part of the analogy, A is the body. B is the spirit. C is death. In the second part, D is faith, E is works, F is death.

Even as A without B is C, so also D without E is F: A body = D faith. B spirit = E works. C death = F death.

The body is faith, the spirit is works, and death is death. Therefore, It's the spirit of a man that does the works, and the body is the faith, that is dead without the works of the spirit. Since the works E are the spirit B, then it's the spirit responsible for the works, not the body. Therefore, the soul of a man is judged by the works of the spirit with the body. The body is not judged for the works.

However, contrary to Christ's spiritual analysis of works, Faith Alone says that B spirit = D faith, and A body = E works. Hence, it's the spirit that has the faith, and the body does the works.

Which is what Faith Alone justification is: Faith Alone in the spirit justifies the man, without the works of the body. The spirit is alive by Faith Alone, while the body is dead by sinful works.

It's the spiritual illusion of having life with God by Faith Alone, that is in spirit only, not with works of the body. I.e. in spirit by our Faith Alone we bless you, while in works we are dead to you:

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

It's the Christian delusion and silliness of being with someone in spirit, while doing nothing for them with works. Even as their faith is in spirit alone, so is their justification only in spirit, not with works:

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Honest Adult Christians, that know our works justify us by faith, and not our faith without works, can play the game for fun: "Hey, I'm with you in spirit brother!" "Forget that, help me get the work done!" Childish Faith Alone Christians actually mean it, even to the point of trusting their eternal souls on it.

When James 2 says that faith without works is dead, being alone, Jesus Christ is saying that their faith is dead as a body without spirit, and their spirit is dead to God and man, as a corpse without works.[/QUOTE]

Dino246 · Feb 5, 2026

ATG said:
Your assertion without a verse doesn't support your assertion.

That is ridiculous. I don't need to provide a verse when I'm making a logical argument.

ATG said:
When someone does not assert anything different, then common language comprehension must suffice.

You did, and I showed you Scripture that proves you wrong.

ATG said:
Have you ever implied that "mind, will, intellect, memory, imagination, and emotions" are in the soul alone, without asserting any faith alone in the soul?

Yes.

Irrelevant. Completely.

ATG said:
Already have enough times. They are commonly known by most Christians, and rejected by some.

No, you haven't, because it doesn't exist.

ATG said:
And so, this is a foundational error of Faith Alone justification, and blaming the body for sinning, not the soul. The body dies naturally in time. The soul dies at the time of sinning against God.

My comments have nothing whatsoever to do with "faith alone".

ATG said:
Your slander is inexplicable.

What slander?

Dino246 · Feb 5, 2026

ATG said:
There is no Scripture stating that Jesus Christ is God. But Scripture teaches it.
Oh. My. Goodness. I shake my head.

John 20:26-28 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Titus 2:13 we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

And, of course, the trump card, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

ATG said:

Here's Scripture, that I haven't quoted yet:

Deu 12:15
Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.

Deu 12:20
When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.

The soul lusts for the things of the flesh. Either for the good by blessing of God, or for the evil cursed of God.

Click to expand...

You have confused "flesh" as in meat for consumption with "flesh" as in the sin nature; they are not the same thing! You have confused legitimate desire for literal food with sinful desire. You have mentally inserted the word, "the" before "flesh" where it doesn't exist. Perhaps you should dispense with reading a centuries-old version in favour of something in modern English.

Here are the same verses from the NIV:

Deuteronomy 12:15 Nevertheless, you may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the Lord your God gives you. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat it.

Deuteronomy 12:20 When the Lord your God has enlarged your territory as he promised you, and you crave meat and say, “I would like some meat,” then you may eat as much of it as you want.

So no, the soul does not "lust after the flesh"!

Dino246 · Feb 5, 2026

ATG said:
This has everything to do with belief in “faith alone”.

Unless of course, anyone having Faith Alone can show otherwise. Which is not unheard of, but certainly not common.

Another ridiculous post without meaning or merit, just irrelevance and silliness. Why do you diminish yourself this way?

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

ATG said:
My training was math, and God writes much of His Scripture in analog: If A=B, then B =A. It's also called comparison analyses.

Jas 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In first part of the analogy, A is the body. B is the spirit. C is death. In the second part, D is faith, E is works, F is death.

Even as A without B is C, so also D without E is F: A body = D faith. B spirit = E works. C death = F death.

ATG,,,,we're going to have to keep a bit of a distance from math if you we want to discuss!
I stopped at algebra and I can hardly remember that.
LOL

The body is faith, the spirit is works, and death is death. Therefore, It's the spirit of a man that does the works, and the body is the faith, that is dead without the works of the spirit. Since the works E are the spirit B, then it's the spirit responsible for the works, not the body. Therefore, the soul of a man is judged by the works of the spirit with the body. The body is not judged for the works.

I'm not going to be able to converse with you.
You're way out in left field and I'm at home plate.

I say HOME PLATE because you're not describing, for isntance, BODY as is commonly understood...

Just to clarify: The body does NOTHING on its own.
It is the soul that directs the body.
And the spirit, for those that have it, direct the soul.

If we do not agree on definiton....

However, contrary to Christ's spiritual analysis of works, Faith Alone says that B spirit = D faith, and A body = E works. Hence, it's the spirit that has the faith, and the body does the works.

OK
Jesus said we have to DO,,,that is not spiritual but a function of the body.
When we go visit a sick person...we ACT on his word and action must be physical.

However, yes,,,
the body does the work.
the spirit has the faith.

Which is what Faith Alone justification is: Faith Alone in the spirit justifies the man, without the works of the body. The spirit is alive by Faith Alone, while the body is dead by sinful works.

Faith ALONE justifies a person.
Works cannot justify...salvation requires faith.

Not sure yet what you mean by. THE BODY IS DEAD BY SINFUL WORKS.

I thought you said the body only has action as directed by the soul?

It's the spiritual illusion of having life with God by Faith Alone, that is in spirit only, not with works of the body. I.e. in spirit by our Faith Alone we bless you, while in works we are dead to you:

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

It's the Christian delusion and silliness of being with someone in spirit, while doing nothing for them with works. Even as their faith is in spirit alone, so is their justification only in spirit, not with works:

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Must you make it so complicated??
Even John Lennox speaks in a normal fashion that is used within Christianity and that we could all understand.

Is this what you're saying?:

Man must take an action that corresponds to his faith.
Faith alone will not clothe a person in need of clothes.
We must act on our faith and clothe the person.

??

Honest Adult Christians, that know our works justify us by faith, and not our faith without works, can play the game for fun: "Hey, I'm with you in spirit brother!" "Forget that, help me get the work done!" Childish Faith Alone Christians actually mean it, even to the point of trusting their eternal souls on it.

I do believe we agree...
even if it took some time to get here.

When James 2 says that faith without works is dead, being alone, Jesus Christ is saying that their faith is dead as a body without spirit, and their spirit is dead to God and man, as a corpse without works.

Yes sir!
I agree.

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

ATG said:
Well said. Even as the complete man is tripart body, spirit, and soul. So is justifying faith two-part: Faith with works. A body with spirit.

Faith without works is the physical part without the spiritual work. A bag of dirt without seed. A hunk of metal without gas.

Does the seed or the dirt do the work in the dirt? The metal or the gas in the metal?

LOL

Too bad I didn't see this post FIRST!!
Very well explained
with no math!

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

Cameron143 said:
Only those that are necessary for salvation.

We only need to follow Jesus' commands if they're necessary for salvation?

And which commands does God expect us to follow?
And which commands does God not expect us to follow?

God gives commands He does not expect us to follow??

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

Dino246 said:
Another ridiculous post without meaning or merit, just irrelevance and silliness. Why do you diminish yourself this way?

Why do YOU keep putting x's on my posts, which means you do not agree,
without explaining why you do not agree?

Step up to the plate sir.
What You do is like the same silly comment for which you are scolding @ATG.

Dino246 · Feb 6, 2026

Toknow said:
Why do YOU keep putting x's on my posts, which means you do not agree,
without explaining why you do not agree?

How many posts of yours have i X’d?

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

Dino246 said:
How many posts of yours have i X’d?

Don't matter Dino.
You could x all of them for all I care.

I was just pointing out your hypocrisy with the other member..
telling him he makes silly little comments.

Which is what an X is: a silly little comment.

It shouldn't even be available because it discourages conversation.

Dino246 · Feb 6, 2026

Toknow said:
Don't matter Dino.
You could x all of them for all I care.

I was just pointing out your hypocrisy with the other member..
telling him he makes silly little comments.

Which is what an X is: a silly little comment.

It shouldn't even be available because it discourages conversation.

Whining, exaggeration, and misrepresentation discourage conversation.

I disagreed with one of your posts.

ONE.

You responded with, “Why do YOU keep putting X’s on my posts”.

I have not yet explained because I prefer to use a laptop for detailed responses, and I’m on my phone currently.

Do you want to explain your exaggeration? Or do you want to admit you overreacted?

Or perhaps you have appointed yourself as ATG’s guard dog? Will you defend all his misrepresentation and slander?

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

Dino246 said:
Whining, exaggeration, and misrepresentation discourage conversation.

I disagreed with one of your posts.

ONE.

You responded with, “Why do YOU keep putting X’s on my posts”.

I have not yet explained because I prefer to use a laptop for detailed responses, and I’m on my phone currently.

Do you want to explain your exaggeration? Or do you want to admit you overreacted?

Or perhaps you have appointed yourself as ATG’s guard dog? Will you defend all his misrepresentation and slander?

I apologize.
I came back to say I was sorry.
I agree with all you've said.

Maybe you'll respond when you get a chance.
Do you not agree that we have a body, soul and spirit?
Later.

Dino246 · Feb 6, 2026

Toknow said:
I apologize.
I came back to say I was sorry.
I agree with all you've said.

Accepted.

Toknow said:
Do you not agree that we have a body, soul and spirit?

Compound-negative questions like that lead to confusion, because one cannot answer either "Yes" or "No" without that answer being uncertain as to its meaning.

I posted the Scripture that clearly distinguishes spirit from soul, spirit from body, and soul from body. Here it is again:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Cameron143 · Feb 6, 2026

Toknow said:
We only need to follow Jesus' commands if they're necessary for salvation?

And which commands does God expect us to follow?
And which commands does God not expect us to follow?

God gives commands He does not expect us to follow??

No. The subject was what works were necessary to be saved. Not sure why you broadened it to include more.

Toknow · Feb 6, 2026

Dino246 said:
Accepted.

Compound-negative questions like that lead to confusion, because one cannot answer either "Yes" or "No" without that answer being uncertain as to its meaning.

Here it is in the single positive:

Do you believe that we have a body, soul and spirit?

I posted the Scripture that clearly distinguishes spirit from soul, spirit from body, and soul from body. Here it is again:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We used the same verse.

So you'll have to explain why you didn't agree with my post.
I think it was the one with the image ....

Some believe in the dichotomy of man...
Body
Soul and Spirit together, or at least, found in the same place (soul)

I believe in the trichotomy of man...
Body
Soul
Spirit

It makes it easier to understand the differences.

The Sin Nature is spiritual lust, not flesh and blood.

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