Some thoughts on the Jews

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Seeker47

Seeker47

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Aug 7, 2018
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I recently came to understand that the concept of a redeeming personal savior (Yeshua) does not appear anywhere in the First Testament. It is a concept that first began appearing about 300 years after the First Testament was completed.

The concept held by the ancient Jews for millennia was of Masiah, an “anointed one.” To be anointed was to be made Holy, set aside for special purpose determined for God. It was a political term, an act reserved for Kings, Priests, or Prophets. Anointing by God established their authority to lead.

For generations the prophets had foretold of a coming Masiah, a King who would come and accomplish their dreams. They anticipated with great joy the restoration of the Kingdom of David. An anointed King who would liberate them form foreign servanthood, bring world peace, establish justice, restore the Temple, and return the lost tribes to their homeland. The need for a personal redeemer was foreign to them; God had already provided for their redemption.

Could anyone expect God’s people, scattered throughout the earth, to instantly put aside thousands of years of anticipation at the feeble call of a shepherd? A shepherd who spoke occasionally to but a handful of people gathered in the most backward area of the Kingdom? A shepherd executed by Temple and Synagogue leaders of his own faith? That plan God chose in His wisdom takes time.

Dare we now condemn an entire race of men, people God chose for his own, because they held to their faith? Was this not God’s plan all along? God has provided for their redemption, and we know Yeshua is his instrument. But consider even more, everything God’s chosen have been dreaming about, the Davidic King, the nation, world peace, freedom, justice, a new Temple, and the restoration of all people, will be accomplished just as they were told; everything! Their faith has never been false.

And because of their faith we get to go too!
 
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Seeker47 said:
I recently came to understand that the concept of a redeeming personal savior (Yeshua) does not appear anywhere in the First Testament. It is a concept that first began appearing about 300 years after the First Testament was completed.

The concept held by the ancient Jews for millennia was of Masiah, an “anointed one.” To be anointed was to be made Holy, set aside for special purpose determined for God. It was a political term, an act reserved for Kings, Priests, or Prophets. Anointing by God established their authority to lead.

For generations the prophets had foretold of a coming Masiah, a King who would come and accomplish their dreams. They anticipated with great joy the restoration of the Kingdom of David. An anointed King who would liberate them form foreign servanthood, bring world peace, establish justice, restore the Temple, and return the lost tribes to their homeland. The need for a personal redeemer was foreign to them; God had already provided for their redemption.

Could anyone expect God’s people, scattered throughout the earth, to instantly put aside thousands of years of anticipation at the feeble call of a shepherd? A shepherd who spoke occasionally to but a handful of people gathered in the most backward area of the Kingdom? A shepherd executed by Temple and Synagogue leaders of his own faith? That plan God chose in His wisdom takes time.

Dare we now condemn an entire race of men, people God chose for his own, because they held to their faith? Was this not God’s plan all along? God has provided for their redemption, and we know Yeshua is his instrument. But consider even more, everything God’s chosen have been dreaming about, the Davidic King, the nation, world peace, freedom, justice, a new Temple, and the restoration of all people, will be accomplished just as they were told; everything! Their faith has never been false.

And because of their faith we get to go too!
Click to expand...

See, Acts 1, where Jesus as risen talks to them about how he had to go through flesh death first. No w risen where the new life for all gets given from Father, whom chooses who to reveal it to.

Knowing the truth in each person and why they want it, See James on that one, you ask, you do not get, why? Could it be you only wish to spend it on your own pleasures?
Then, Jesus in of Farther continues as began explaining to them truth even as Paul when he was called picks up on it in 1 Cor 15 to explain the mistakes people where making and are still doing the same today.
Then Read Hebrews 11 about all that stood in faith for a messsiah. Yet no one understood how it would, play out. They Did not understand, then saw him risen and Jesus still not fight back in flesh and blood
Do we get it, Father has it all for us all to see personally each and be new in love and mercy to all too, thank you Lord
It starts at wanting a personal relationship between Farther and you. then one can truly love as God did and does first through Son for us all.
 
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What would be accomplished by the death of Jesus had to be hidden.

1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
 
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Seeker47 said:
I recently came to understand that the concept of a redeeming personal savior (Yeshua) does not appear anywhere in the First Testament. It is a concept that first began appearing about 300 years after the First Testament was completed.

The concept held by the ancient Jews for millennia was of Masiah, an “anointed one.” To be anointed was to be made Holy, set aside for special purpose determined for God. It was a political term, an act reserved for Kings, Priests, or Prophets. Anointing by God established their authority to lead.

For generations the prophets had foretold of a coming Masiah, a King who would come and accomplish their dreams. They anticipated with great joy the restoration of the Kingdom of David. An anointed King who would liberate them form foreign servanthood, bring world peace, establish justice, restore the Temple, and return the lost tribes to their homeland. The need for a personal redeemer was foreign to them; God had already provided for their redemption.

Could anyone expect God’s people, scattered throughout the earth, to instantly put aside thousands of years of anticipation at the feeble call of a shepherd? A shepherd who spoke occasionally to but a handful of people gathered in the most backward area of the Kingdom? A shepherd executed by Temple and Synagogue leaders of his own faith? That plan God chose in His wisdom takes time.

Dare we now condemn an entire race of men, people God chose for his own, because they held to their faith? Was this not God’s plan all along? God has provided for their redemption, and we know Yeshua is his instrument. But consider even more, everything God’s chosen have been dreaming about, the Davidic King, the nation, world peace, freedom, justice, a new Temple, and the restoration of all people, will be accomplished just as they were told; everything! Their faith has never been false.

And because of their faith we get to go too!
Click to expand...
There is a slight hint in the name Jesus. It means "Saviour". John the Baptist also said that Jesus was the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Peter said that we are redeemed by the precious blood of Lord Jesus.

The reason that the Jews then and now did not know Jesus as the saviour is their spiritual blindness. (Matthew 13:14 & 15). Jesus did things that ordinary men never did and said things that no one else had ever said.

I don't accept that the concept of Saviour was not known. The first apostles saw it, preached it and many gave their lives for it. Sure, it was not until the resurrection that they finally understood. But that was not 300 years later.
 
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I recently came to understand that the concept of a redeeming personal savior (Yeshua) does not appear anywhere in the First Testament. It is a concept that first began appearing about 300 years after the First Testament was completed.
Click to expand...

The concept was NOT UNDERSTOOD by most Jews of the time,, But it was there, in the prophecies pointing to the Messiah.. This concept came to be known and accepted by the first Jewish followers of Jesus.. From the day of Pentecost onward to today the "concept" has remained firmly established in the hearts and minds of all true followers of the LORD Jesus..
 
timf said:
What would be accomplished by the death of Jesus had to be hidden.

1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Click to expand...

The culmination of the entire Bible, Genesis 3:15-16 in the resurrection ?Satan, evil defeated!
So God carried it all out. God proved in the First (Old) Testament that no one is perfect no one all. through the First Testament, we get to see Failure after Failure. God then chose a certain group and proved even those chosen ones still failed. No one perfect ever. To get in to Heaven, perfection was needed and no one could ever do that, So Son did it once for us all.
Time to let go of self work and trust God Father in risen Son for you and learn new from Father in Father's Holy Spirit for you too.

God requires perfection, and no one is perfect revealed in the First Testament. Then the only perfect Son Jesus came to town, born of Mary in the tribe of Judah. To die once for everyone, to get us all to be seen by Father as if no one ever sinned, through his done work once for us all. What? Yes, God loves us all, So, I stopped condemning, accusing, abusing or even manipulating self or anyone else anymore. God reveals this to those that are sincere in belief, wanting no gain for the self anymore. Standing in trust to God provides. Thank you Father and Son as Won. No chance other than wha tis done by Son, I see this after a long walk off a short pier daily, not being ever perfect of myself ever. Anyone else?
Col 1:21-23. Christ fulfilled Law as said in Matthew 5:17, he was here on earth to do. According to John 19:30 he did it. Now is risen and ready to give new life to anyone that believes and will not quit belief, will eventually see and be at rest and still no better than anyone else.

Then seen, as risen and we are freed from under Law, now made as if never sinned. Not to be proud, rather thankful to Father, and love all in the same love, mercy and Truth of Son done for us all first John 13:34
 
I sincerely appreciate all the discussions. In condemning all God's chosen people for not immediately recognizing Yeshua is false doctrine and leads to evil, yesterday and today. How easily we forget that salvation comes, "...first to the Jew and then to the gentile."
 
Seeker47 said:
I sincerely appreciate all the discussions. In condemning all God's chosen people for not immediately recognizing Yeshua is false doctrine and leads to evil, yesterday and today. How easily we forget that salvation comes, "...first to the Jew and then to the gentile."
Click to expand...

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I suppose it matters who is doing the condemning.

Above, Jesus declares the condemnation of the whole world as axiomatic. He did not come to condemn the world because the world already stood condemned.

Let's get down to brass tacks: Without Jesus, is everyone in the world condemned except the Jews? Is that what you're saying?
 
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Seeker47 said:
I sincerely appreciate all the discussions. In condemning all God's chosen people for not immediately recognizing Yeshua is false doctrine and leads to evil, yesterday and today. How easily we forget that salvation comes, "...first to the Jew and then to the gentile."
Click to expand...

Now today there is no differences. we are viewed by Father, thanks to Son we are all equal. He is risen gives the gift of new life to be new as born again new from Father since Father's Spirit and Truth is for us all to be given freely, to those that will stand in belief no matter what happens bad or good to them. Those that willingly choose to believe Father and Son for them. where new life begins. Father then reveals certain things one at a time, so stand!
Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I called, God answered, I love you. I replied what? How? I did wrong again!
God said my Son took your deserved death place, so we can communicate and I can teach you what true love is for everyone.
I began a new focus, standing in thanksgiving and praise, having no where near anymore time to sin, too busy praising Father and Son as Won
1 Cor 13:4-7 is true Love. Told to see 1 Cor 13:1-3 and see anyone can try to do anything, and yet still not be completed, trying to do it themselves. without my Love for them given to them through my Only begotten Son alone
I replied, Wow is me and saw Isaiah 6:1-7
 
Aaron56 said:
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I suppose it matters who is doing the condemning.

Above, Jesus declares the condemnation of the whole world as axiomatic. He did not come to condemn the world because the world already stood condemned.

Let's get down to brass tacks: Without Jesus, is everyone in the world condemned except the Jews? Is that what you're saying?
Click to expand...

I think he said I did not come to condemn the world, I came to save it. After death he first reconciled everyone as forigven through his done work first.
Now Father here still in Spirit and Truth to given ew life to all that willingly choose to beleive and not have to do anything to be in

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

God is good all the time, as good its God all the rime, amazing Thank you Farther, Daddy, PaPa
 
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homwardbound said:
I think he said I did not come to condemn the world, I came to save it. After death he first reconciled everyone as forigven through his done work first.
Now Father here still in Spirit and Truth to given ew life to all that willingly choose to beleive and not have to do anything to be in

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

God is good all the time, as good its God all the rime, amazing Thank you Farther, Daddy, PaPa
Click to expand...

Correct. It already stood condemned before He showed up. This is why the assertion "We should not condemn anyone" makes little sense. Without Christ all stand condemned in their own sins. Christ is the exclusive means of salvation from condemnation.
 
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Seeker47 said:
I recently came to understand that the concept of a redeeming personal savior (Yeshua) does not appear anywhere in the First Testament. It is a concept that first began appearing about 300 years after the First Testament was completed.

The concept held by the ancient Jews for millennia was of Masiah, an “anointed one.” To be anointed was to be made Holy, set aside for special purpose determined for God. It was a political term, an act reserved for Kings, Priests, or Prophets. Anointing by God established their authority to lead.

For generations the prophets had foretold of a coming Masiah, a King who would come and accomplish their dreams. They anticipated with great joy the restoration of the Kingdom of David. An anointed King who would liberate them form foreign servanthood, bring world peace, establish justice, restore the Temple, and return the lost tribes to their homeland. The need for a personal redeemer was foreign to them; God had already provided for their redemption.

Could anyone expect God’s people, scattered throughout the earth, to instantly put aside thousands of years of anticipation at the feeble call of a shepherd? A shepherd who spoke occasionally to but a handful of people gathered in the most backward area of the Kingdom? A shepherd executed by Temple and Synagogue leaders of his own faith? That plan God chose in His wisdom takes time.

Dare we now condemn an entire race of men, people God chose for his own, because they held to their faith? Was this not God’s plan all along? God has provided for their redemption, and we know Yeshua is his instrument. But consider even more, everything God’s chosen have been dreaming about, the Davidic King, the nation, world peace, freedom, justice, a new Temple, and the restoration of all people, will be accomplished just as they were told; everything! Their faith has never been false.

And because of their faith we get to go too!
Click to expand...

Thanks Seeker47, for your comments. I assume by 'first testament' that you are referring to the section sometimes called the ''old testament' portion of the Bible. I think that you are right that in the old days many persons were thinking of the messiah in terms of a political earthly king. Just as today, many persons see earthly physical might as the same as spiritual might, so they think of ruling and reigning in Christ as being a matter of physical kingdoms and physical thrones. Further, they imagine many scriptures to be talking about physical situations instead of spiritual ones. They imagine a real white horse when the Bible speaks of one, or a physical metal sword sticking out of Jesus' mouth and so forth, instead of what is being mentioned in parable fashion. Instead, a horse is a picture of believers (Jerusalem) and the sword is God's word. We should remember the scripture, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. "Ruling and reigning in Christ and being seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (which all true believers are this very moment) is different than a political earthly kingdom with physical armaments, but occurs spiritually anywhere there is a believer. The believer is reigning with Christ spiritually.

However, in speaking of the times before the cross, we should remember that the 'old testament' is positively dripping with references to Christ as being the savior of individuals. This is salvation for every Jew and for every Gentile that is found in Christ, as attested by the 'old testament'. In Genesis, Joseph provides a picture of Jesus, as he was rejected by his brothers but exalted by God - only to save each of his brothers, with the mention that his brothers intended evil upon him but God intended it for good, to save them. When Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, it was a picture of Jesus in the heart of the earth once dying on the cross for others, and when he was spit onto dry land it was a picture of the resurrection, so that he could preach to those who would turn to God and be saved. Ninevah is a picture of all who turn to God. In Exodus, the blood from the altar was a picture of Jesus' blood, and when it was sprinkled on Aaron and his sons it is a picture of God forgiving individuals their sins. In Leviticus, when a leper was cleansed by sprinkling the blood of a bird seven times it was a picture of God doing all the work of cleansing (saving) individuals. In Numbers, when a seventh day is spoken of in which individuals are told to do no servile work, it is a picture of how God does all the work of saving us, whilst we only rest in that regard. We do not save ourselves. Jesus does the work of saving us, on the cross, because he is the only sinless person able to save in that manner. In Deuteronomy chapter 15, we read of how every seventh year there is a release of debt, and this is a picture of God freeing up individuals from their own shortcomings through forgiveness. In Joshua, we read about a person named Joshua who provides a picture of Jesus as he takes his own believers (pictured by the 12 tribes of Israel) across the river judgment (Jordan means judgment) into the promised kingdom. This provides a picture of all in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles, passing unharmed thanks to Jesus. In Ruth, a kinsman redeemer is a picture of Jesus, in Isaiah one wounded for our transgressions. And on and on and on so many many places in the 'old testament' so many pictures of Jesus saving individuals, but all in parable form. The 'old testament' tells us that the Bible is written in parable form: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable " So many pictures of Jesus saving individuals in the 'old testament' beyond just the simple verses people often use as known prophesy, such as Micah mentioning Jesus on a colt. Thanks so much to God that today understanding is available about the meaning of these 'old testament' scriptures. I think God revealed meaning to people prior to the cross as well. Some of the Jews for example, were disciples, whilst others persecuted Jesus. It is similar today, some of the people of the world believe and some do not.
 
birdie said:
Thanks Seeker47, for your comments. I assume by 'first testament' that you are referring to the section sometimes called the ''old testament' portion of the Bible. I think that you are right that in the old days many persons were thinking of the messiah in terms of a political earthly king. Just as today, many persons see earthly physical might as the same as spiritual might, so they think of ruling and reigning in Christ as being a matter of physical kingdoms and physical thrones. Further, they imagine many scriptures to be talking about physical situations instead of spiritual ones. They imagine a real white horse when the Bible speaks of one, or a physical metal sword sticking out of Jesus' mouth and so forth, instead of what is being mentioned in parable fashion. Instead, a horse is a picture of believers (Jerusalem) and the sword is God's word. We should remember the scripture, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. "Ruling and reigning in Christ and being seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (which all true believers are this very moment) is different than a political earthly kingdom with physical armaments, but occurs spiritually anywhere there is a believer. The believer is reigning with Christ spiritually.

However, in speaking of the times before the cross, we should remember that the 'old testament' is positively dripping with references to Christ as being the savior of individuals. This is salvation for every Jew and for every Gentile that is found in Christ, as attested by the 'old testament'. In Genesis, Joseph provides a picture of Jesus, as he was rejected by his brothers but exalted by God - only to save each of his brothers, with the mention that his brothers intended evil upon him but God intended it for good, to save them. When Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, it was a picture of Jesus in the heart of the earth once dying on the cross for others, and when he was spit onto dry land it was a picture of the resurrection, so that he could preach to those who would turn to God and be saved. Ninevah is a picture of all who turn to God. In Exodus, the blood from the altar was a picture of Jesus' blood, and when it was sprinkled on Aaron and his sons it is a picture of God forgiving individuals their sins. In Leviticus, when a leper was cleansed by sprinkling the blood of a bird seven times it was a picture of God doing all the work of cleansing (saving) individuals. In Numbers, when a seventh day is spoken of in which individuals are told to do no servile work, it is a picture of how God does all the work of saving us, whilst we only rest in that regard. We do not save ourselves. Jesus does the work of saving us, on the cross, because he is the only sinless person able to save in that manner. In Deuteronomy chapter 15, we read of how every seventh year there is a release of debt, and this is a picture of God freeing up individuals from their own shortcomings through forgiveness. In Joshua, we read about a person named Joshua who provides a picture of Jesus as he takes his own believers (pictured by the 12 tribes of Israel) across the river judgment (Jordan means judgment) into the promised kingdom. This provides a picture of all in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles, passing unharmed thanks to Jesus. In Ruth, a kinsman redeemer is a picture of Jesus, in Isaiah one wounded for our transgressions. And on and on and on so many many places in the 'old testament' so many pictures of Jesus saving individuals, but all in parable form. The 'old testament' tells us that the Bible is written in parable form: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable " So many pictures of Jesus saving individuals in the 'old testament' beyond just the simple verses people often use as known prophesy, such as Micah mentioning Jesus on a colt. Thanks so much to God that today understanding is available about the meaning of these 'old testament' scriptures. I think God revealed meaning to people prior to the cross as well. Some of the Jews for example, were disciples, whilst others persecuted Jesus. It is similar today, some of the people of the world believe and some do not.
Click to expand...

I agree, the First Testament did reference Jesus, he is woven through the text as you perfectly illustrated. It is also true that nearly all Jews had no reference to any written word and would not have been able to read it if they did. All they had was oral tradition and what the Priest or Pharisee told them t ment. They were led astray, kinda like today.

I think we should stand amazed at how many "Jews" did accept Christ once they heard the word, and not condemn the entire race. Replacement is evil.
 
No; they didn't hold onto their faith at all. If they really recognized God, they would have recognized Jesus. He literally raised people from their graves; you can't really ask for a more legit sign than that. They wanted him to kill people; killing people is easy, anybody can kill people.

And I get the whole "can we skip to the end where we win?" thing. I would have been there too; like, LETS GO!!!!; but that wasn't the plan- he wanted a big long harvest, not a quick little harvest. You can't argue with that. I can't argue with that. Nobody can argue with that.

I'm not going to lie and say I don't have political goals for my country; because I absolutely do; but at the end of the day, those things are secondary to God's word and the edification of ALL of God's people. That's the way it is.

They KNEW by prophecy, that there was going to be a NEW covenant. Their "faith" explicitly revealed to them that something new was coming; and when it came, the were like "NAAAWWW!!!". I can't defend it.
 
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Adstar said:
The concept was NOT UNDERSTOOD by most Jews of the time,, But it was there, in the prophecies pointing to the Messiah.. This concept came to be known and accepted by the first Jewish followers of Jesus.. From the day of Pentecost onward to today the "concept" has remained firmly established in the hearts and minds of all true followers of the LORD Jesus..
Click to expand...

I believe the Jews were looking for a regal looking Savior coming on a white horse wanting to restore the Davidic kingdom. In reality, He came to earth humble….
 
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Aaron56 said:
Correct. It already stood condemned before He showed up. This is why the assertion "We should not condemn anyone" makes little sense. Without Christ all stand condemned in their own sins. Christ is the exclusive means of salvation from condemnation.
Click to expand...

there is a before the cross and an after
Before under Law
After uphold law in risen Son working out through us, for Father to get all the credit, not te self anymore

Now see there is a before and an after the cross. The written Gospels are mainly before the cross, the burial, death and resurrection to the new life offered for us all
Then to read them and discern them. To follow along through where, when and what was happening at any particular time.

I see to discern, anything reported in scriptures. Was this before or after the cross

Then, we get the Epistles after the Acts that happened after the resurrected Son
As we all are learning and seeing to grow up, and work out our own salvations given us. I saw people not see what Paul stated after he said to work out our own salvation With fear and trembling
He stated right after that "For it is God that works it out through you" Wow Isaiah 6:1-7
Thanks Aaron56
 
Gideon300 said:
There is a slight hint in the name Jesus. It means "Saviour". John the Baptist also said that Jesus was the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Peter said that we are redeemed by the precious blood of Lord Jesus.

The reason that the Jews then and now did not know Jesus as the saviour is their spiritual blindness. (Matthew 13:14 & 15). Jesus did things that ordinary men never did and said things that no one else had ever said.

I don't accept that the concept of Saviour was not known. The first apostles saw it, preached it and many gave their lives for it. Sure, it was not until the resurrection that they finally understood. But that was not 300 years later.
Click to expand...


Agreed -- Luke 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you may now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”
 
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