Does the Parable of the Wedding Banquet confirm the abrogation of the Israelites and invitation to the Gentiles?

Aaron56 said:

You have to reconcile the revelation of "One new man" and "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah" to understand.

As I said, we retain the promises given to Judah; namely the right to rule as kingly rulers ("The scepter shall not pass from Judah"). So, in Christ, whose Body is made up of all who receive Him, we are co-heirs to the same promises.

It works like this: Judah, the man, is deceased. As a dead man he can no longer hold a scepter of rule. Furthermore, the "Lion of the tribe of Judah" refers to the eternal Christ - a being with no end or beginning. He always was, and is, and is to come. He was always the Lion of the tribe of Judah, even before Judah was born.

Judah appeared in time and space in his given time. His line was blessed with the right to rule namely in the manner he secured his own promise to return Benjamin.

Genesis 44:32 "For your servant became surety for the lad to my father, saying, ‘If I do not bring him back to you, then I shall bear the blame before my father forever.’"

This is juxtaposed against Reuben's promise to allow his own sons to be killed "Reuben spoke to his father, saying, “Kill my two sons if I do not bring him back to you; put him in my hands, and I will bring him back to you.”

So Judah, like Christ, promised to give his own life for the redemption of his brother. This was the spirit of Christ being spoken forth from Judah before the birth of Christ.

So, when the house of Judah is blessed with the royal scepter, it secured the reality that the Messiah had to come through Judah's line since the Messiah would be the "King of kings".

That's what Paul was teaching when he wrote this:

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Wait, Paul wrote "once Gentiles in the flesh"... aren't they still Gentiles and not Jews?
Let's read on...

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.

No, in Christ, we are not Gentiles. And the Jews are not Jews. Together we represent one new man.
And what do we gain by being in Christ?

18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Access to the Father. This goes back to eternity before flesh was made. We become a member of the beloved of God Who was One with the Father in the beginning. This reality is the answer to Jesus' prayer before His crucifixion:

This is Jesus: "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."

(Some may say "God does not share His glory with another" They are correct. BUT, in Christ, we are not another. We are His flesh and His bones.)

Jesus continued: “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."

This goes back to eternity, from the foundation of the world: before Adam and Eve and Noah and Abram, etc... Redemption in Christ restores us to the relationship between the Son and Father that existed before creation.

Cliff's Notes version: The kingly rule of Judah was a spiritual quality of the eternal Christ. Judah appeared as a Hebrew man, but the Christ appears as the new man made up of Jew and Gentile. In Christ we obtain the inheritance of the Only Begotten Son, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, which is the Spiritual reality of Christ, the eternal Messiah.

@Magenta @Cameron143 @posthuman @Pilgrimshope

Blessings

Click to expand...

“No, in Christ, we are not Gentiles. And the Jews are not Jews. Together we represent one new man. “

right

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“(Some may say "God does not share His glory with another" They are correct. BUT, in Christ, we are not another. We are His flesh and His bones.)”

We aren’t his flesh and bones we share in and live unto him by the spirit he’s given us in his son making us the children. But not by flesh blood or bone but by spirit .

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The flesh we’re born of is of Adam who was made of the dust but our spirit that endures and lives is of God. We share in his body and blood through communion . But it’s the fact that he gave it up for us laid it down and sacrificed his body and blood . We live by the spirit and share in the spirit through Christ we’re one spirit all believers are of the same promise . Not of the same flesh and bone however

and our glory definately comes from him but we’ll never be as glorious all together by the millions we aren’t as glorious we’ll always be the created , he’ll always be the creator

Psalm1 said:

Both dynamics are true.
You are making it "either...or", when I can say both are true.

...and both are true.
You are thinking your verses cancel out other verses.

Partial truth is deception.

Spurgeon said: "discernment is not knowing right from wrong. It is knowing right from partially right."

Click to expand...

Are you saying it is okay to regard SOME people according to the flesh?

We should use the scripture for guidance:

"Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away..."

This certainly seems like an "either or" issue according to Paul.

Pilgrimshope said:

“No, in Christ, we are not Gentiles. And the Jews are not Jews. Together we represent one new man. “

right

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“(Some may say "God does not share His glory with another" They are correct. BUT, in Christ, we are not another. We are His flesh and His bones.)”

We aren’t his flesh and bones we share in and live unto him by the spirit he’s given us in his son making us the children. But not by flesh blood or bone but by spirit .

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The flesh we’re born of is of Adam who was made of the dust but our spirit that endures and lives is of God. We share in his body and blood through communion . But it’s the fact that he gave it up for us laid it down and sacrificed his body and blood . We live by the spirit and share in the spirit through Christ we’re one spirit all believers are of the same promise . Not of the same flesh and bone however

and our glory definately comes from him but we’ll never be as glorious all together by the millions we aren’t as glorious we’ll always be the created , he’ll always be the creator

Click to expand...

"For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."

Of course this is a spiritual principle meant to secure us into the Body of Him. Another way to put it: we are the essence of Him, and He of us. This would be the answer to His prayer: "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

The opposite belief, that Jesus Christ does not appear in the flesh of man, is the cornerstone of anti-Christ.

"By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God (this is not just that Jesus was a man but that Jesus Christ appears in those who are part of Him), and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." The latter would be like Gnosticism, where the flesh of men is too unclean for God to appear in.

Furthermore, the appearance of Christ is us is what Paul meant when he wrote: "When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory." This isn't His second coming, this is Him appearing in our life. When He appears in us we show forth as the light of the world. Not us, but Him in us. This is the glory He shared with us, as I wrote about earlier.

Aaron56 said:

"For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."

Of course this is a spiritual principle meant to secure us into the Body of Him. Another way to put it: we are the essence of Him, and He of us. This would be the answer to His prayer: "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

The opposite belief, that Jesus Christ does not appear in the flesh of man, is the cornerstone of anti-Christ.

"By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God (this is not just that Jesus was a man but that Jesus Christ appears in those who are part of Him), and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." The latter would be like Gnosticism, where the flesh of men is too unclean for God to appear in.

Furthermore, the appearance of Christ is us is what Paul meant when he wrote: "When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory." This isn't His second coming, this is Him appearing in our life. When He appears in us we show forth as the light of the world. Not us, but Him in us. This is the glory He shared with us, as I wrote about earlier.

Click to expand...

“Of course this is a spiritual principle meant to secure us into the Body of Him. Another way to put it: we are the essence of Him”

right ! like children are the essence of thier parents of whom they are born

“We are members of his body “

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we all have parents through whom we inherited our flesh and blood and bones going all the way back to Adam . But the father is a spirit and his children are born of the spirit and are destined to become spirit at the resurrection .

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-37, 44-51‬ ‭

His children are eternal because they are spirit like he is that’s truly the only thing that makes his children his children regardless of what flesh they are born in from Adam this is what we’re being saved from

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ removed the veil of the flesh so we can live by the spirit of God and someday be glorified together forever with Christ Jesus the Son of God but that’s not our glory yet that’s after we shed our flesh and blood even Jesus didn’t enter his glory u til he lived as a humble man beneath god serving him then died without sin then he was glorified with his eternal glory with the father

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should always remember this mind of Christ

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this mind of christ in his flesh

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother Jesus became a man fulfilling many needs of our salvation one of them was that there needs to be a perfect man serving as high priest in order tomonterceed on our behalf mans behalf to God a mediator between mankind and almighty God . This also is part of who Jesus the man is and was and will always be . The man who is at the right hand of God standing in his glory far above us on the throne. Who can save all who turn to him

“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:5-6‬ ‭


what do you know about the term “ son of man “ brother ? I mean what is it communicating To us regarding Jesus and the salvation plan ? Jesus referred most often to himself as “ the son of man “ even after he would be glorified

“And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:62‬ ‭KJV‬‬

tell
Me some about the son of man who is he ? What’a his place ect ?

Pilgrimshope said:

“Of course this is a spiritual principle meant to secure us into the Body of Him. Another way to put it: we are the essence of Him”

right ! like children are the essence of thier parents of whom they are born

“We are members of his body “

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we all have parents through whom we inherited our flesh and blood and bones going all the way back to Adam . But the father is a spirit and his children are born of the spirit and are destined to become spirit at the resurrection .

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-37, 44-51‬ ‭

His children are eternal because they are spirit like he is that’s truly the only thing that makes his children his children regardless of what flesh they are born in from Adam this is what we’re being saved from

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ removed the veil of the flesh so we can live by the spirit of God and someday be glorified together forever with Christ Jesus the Son of God but that’s not our glory yet that’s after we shed our flesh and blood even Jesus didn’t enter his glory u til he lived as a humble man beneath god serving him then died without sin then he was glorified with his eternal glory with the father

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should always remember this mind of Christ

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this mind of christ in his flesh

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother Jesus became a man fulfilling many needs of our salvation one of them was that there needs to be a perfect man serving as high priest in order tomonterceed on our behalf mans behalf to God a mediator between mankind and almighty God . This also is part of who Jesus the man is and was and will always be . The man who is at the right hand of God standing in his glory far above us on the throne. Who can save all who turn to him

“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:5-6‬ ‭


what do you know about the term “ son of man “ brother ? I mean what is it communicating To us regarding Jesus and the salvation plan ? Jesus referred most often to himself as “ the son of man “ even after he would be glorified

“And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:62‬ ‭KJV‬‬

tell
Me some about the son of man who is he ? What’a his place ect ?

Click to expand...

I think we only differ on the timing of some things.

Have you ever had people praise the Lord because of the love you showed them? This is fulfilling the scripture: "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” This is the light of the world shining forth from us.

The coming world does not need appearances of light: it will be bathed in it: "The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light." This will be its common state, nothing of note. Today, however, we are the light of this world that is in darkness: not us but Him through us. By participating in this reality, we show forth His glory.

Of course, this is not about being on the same level as God. We are, however, part of the work He does in our day... living sacrifices... the giving up of our own lives so that He may appear in us.

Love you brother!

Aaron56 said:

I think we only differ on the timing of some things.

Have you ever had people praise the Lord because of the love you showed them? This is fulfilling the scripture: "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” This is the light of the world shining forth from us.

The coming world does not need appearances of light: it will be bathed in it: "The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light." This will be its common state, nothing of note. Today, however, we are the light of this world that is in darkness: not us but Him through us. By participating in this reality, we show forth His glory.

Of course, this is not about being on the same level as God. We are, however, part of the work He does in our day... living sacrifices... the giving up of our own lives so that He may appear in us.

Love you brother!

Click to expand...

Yes i wasn’t noticing much disagreement actually was just wanting to hear what you know about that term and how deep it’s rooted in the salvation plan

i get what you were saying almost all of it I agree with . I was just wanting to discuss the time period Jesus was walking among us and why he was for instance praying and offering supplications during his trials of the flesh . Or why he always went off alone to pray or why angels came to strengthen him in some of his hardest times ect how that intercession is rooted back as far as jacobs blessing upon Judah the crouching lion from whom the law giver would emerge the Lion of Judah ect that you were delving into it relates back and connects dorectly to the son of man doctrine throughout the Bible

Pilgrimshope said:

Yes i wasn’t noticing much disagreement actually was just wanting to hear what you know about that term and how deep it’s rooted in the salvation plan

i get what you were saying almost all of it I agree with . I was just wanting to discuss the time period Jesus was walking among us and why he was for instance praying and offering supplications during his trials of the flesh . Or why he always went off alone to pray or why angels came to strengthen him in some of his hardest times ect how that intercession is rooted back as far as jacobs blessing upon Judah the crouching lion from whom the law giver would emerge the Lion of Judah ect that you were delving into it relates back and connects dorectly to the son of man doctrine throughout the Bible

Click to expand...

I tell you, it is my intent to keep digging in this area: that of the eternal reality of God being found in the eternal and eventually appearing in the earth. Truthfully, I haven't considered the principle from that point of view.

I always read in Revelation "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah" and said in my mind "Oh, that's Christ" and just kept reading. But then I considered that the "Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world" and realized that the template for Christ was well-established in Eternity with God well before someone like Judah appeared in the earth. So, instead of letting the man, Judah, define the eternal Christ, I'm looking at how God handles the account of Judah and letting that inform me about Christ's essence and character. And not just Christ's but also the times we are in and will go through in the earth.

Does that make sense?

Psalm1 said:

You made the claim.
Now you are just shooting words at it.

I was wondering how Ruth and Boaz were not involved in the taking of the child.

I wanted to know how you centered on "took", and contested the child was given to Naomi.
....when it is implied the child was not just snatched away.

I don't see any profit in your objection and "correction".

Click to expand...

I would have thought we had pursued that one as far as it goes.
My main point was that both of us are only in an area of opinion, as neither of us were there with them to establish the facts.
It did not enter my mind that "took" means snatched away.
I would have assumed that it was a voluntary act that Naomi did by her own will, ie no command from a high priest or judge, or decree from God that it should be so.
Grandmothers in many countries take care of little ones.
My mother in law is Filipino, and cared for my nieces and nephews when they were little.
If you see a ground shaking teaching about Jews and Gentiles in that one you are welcome to it.
Can you find the same teaching elsewhere in the Bible?
Best if possible to find passages that are easily understood.

Aaron56 said:

I tell you, it is my intent to keep digging in this area: that of the eternal reality of God being found in the eternal and eventually appearing in the earth. Truthfully, I haven't considered the principle from that point of view.

I always read in Revelation "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah" and said in my mind "Oh, that's Christ" and just kept reading. But then I considered that the "Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world" and realized that the template for Christ was well-established in Eternity with God well before someone like Judah appeared in the earth. So, instead of letting the man, Judah, define the eternal Christ, I'm looking at how God handles the account of Judah and letting that inform me about Christ's essence and character. And not just Christ's but also the times we are in and will go through in the earth.

Does that make sense?

Click to expand...

Yeah I would point to this the decision and determination of gods foreknowledge was in the beginning and later he delivered his message pan which was Christ becoming flesh to nd lfuol all he promised in the prophets “ promise and then fulfillment “


“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I mean is gods plan to become flesh and be slain eas determined by gods foreknowledge but it wasn’t actually fuflilled until Jesus was born lived and eventually was crucified . Gods plan was from the beginning but everything had its time the son of man brother

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how God made and determined the plan before the creation ? But later the sin was actually born as the ne of us and later was crucified fulfilling the plan from the beginning ?
“And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a connection between God up high and man down low it’s Christ Jesus who became one of us and overcame and was exalted to the right hand of God to intercede for our imperfect lives.

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world,

received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

does that lead you to any thoughts ? Pertaining to the son of man ?

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Did this happen after Jesus was born and lived in the flesh and blood ? Or before the world was created ?

When we talk about the eternal, things that were, are, and will be, we cannot use words rooted in the concept of time. Like “foreknowledge” for example, it implies a knowledge of something before it occurs. That can be true in time and space, because time is linear, but it loses its usefulness when we are dealing with the eternal realm. Things simply are. Like God - I Am.

So to the question: did Jesus die on the cross about 2000 years ago or from the foundation of the world? The answer is “yes”. God brings what is true in the eternal into time and space “in the fullness of time”. All of creation was made to host the eternal estate of God. When comparing the eternal against time and space, time and space gives deference to eternity - the spiritual - because the eternal will not pass away. It has always been true and will always be true.

There is so much I could write about this topic from what I see but I’m currently on my iPad so it’s unnecessarily laborious.

Beekeeper said:

I would have thought we had pursued that one as far as it goes.
My main point was that both of us are only in an area of opinion, as neither of us were there with them to establish the facts.
It did not enter my mind that "took" means snatched away.
I would have assumed that it was a voluntary act that Naomi did by her own will, ie no command from a high priest or judge, or decree from God that it should be so.
Grandmothers in many countries take care of little ones.
My mother in law is Filipino, and cared for my nieces and nephews when they were little.
If you see a ground shaking teaching about Jews and Gentiles in that one you are welcome to it.
Can you find the same teaching elsewhere in the Bible?
Best if possible to find passages that are easily understood.

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Yes
Ot happens often.

Aaron56 said:

Are you saying it is okay to regard SOME people according to the flesh?

We should use the scripture for guidance:

"Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away..."

This certainly seems like an "either or" issue according to Paul.

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I am sure whatever the verses say are true

Aaron56 said:

When we talk about the eternal, things that were, are, and will be, we cannot use words rooted in the concept of time. Like “foreknowledge” for example, it implies a knowledge of something before it occurs. That can be true in time and space, because time is linear, but it loses its usefulness when we are dealing with the eternal realm. Things simply are. Like God - I Am.

So to the question: did Jesus die on the cross about 2000 years ago or from the foundation of the world? The answer is “yes”. God brings what is true in the eternal into time and space “in the fullness of time”. All of creation was made to host the eternal estate of God. When comparing the eternal against time and space, time and space gives deference to eternity - the spiritual - because the eternal will not pass away. It has always been true and will always be true.

There is so much I could write about this topic from what I see but I’m currently on my iPad so it’s unnecessarily laborious.

Click to expand...

The crucifixion of Jesus is an event in history, yet there is redemption and condemnation for many both before and after the event.
What you say rings true for an eternal matter like this, but the concept can also be distorted for other historic events in the Bible.
Third temple preachers will often refer to the final chapters of Ezekiel for details about a third temple while neglecting to mention that the second temple was ever built.
In an example like Ezekiel 41:1 would it not be helpful to establish which temple Ezekiel is being shown measurements for?

Beekeeper said:

The crucifixion of Jesus is an event in history, yet there is redemption and condemnation for many both before and after the event.
What you say rings true for an eternal matter like this, but the concept can also be distorted for other historic events in the Bible.
Third temple preachers will often refer to the final chapters of Ezekiel for details about a third temple while neglecting to mention that the second temple was ever built.
In an example like Ezekiel 41:1 would it not be helpful to establish which temple Ezekiel is being shown measurements for?

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Well, now that we know the saints are the living stones of the temple of God we should examine any mention of an actual third temple of God in that light. If we insist that God abrogated the temple made of saints back into a temple made with bricks from the ground we should turn around. We’ve missed the plot and the revelation given by the Spirit.

Psalm1 said:

I am sure whatever the verses say are true

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I see you are committed to your current level of understanding.

Aaron56 said:

Well, now that we know the saints are the living stones of the temple of God we should examine any mention of an actual third temple of God in that light. If we insist that God abrogated the temple made of saints back into a temple made with bricks from the ground we should turn around. We’ve missed the plot and the revelation given by the Spirit.

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We could try to establish which temple Ezekiel is instructed about by doing time-line studies, but your approach of seeking an understanding of God's temple would save us from many more pitfalls.
A building or creation can only become the temple of God when God is pleased to dwell in it.

John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Aaron56 said:

I see you are committed to your current level of understanding.

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Never.
Every true man of God has changed his view at some time or other.

The bible can be a doctrine destroyer .

A person Can thank he, has it all figured out, and along comes the Bible, and destroys that line of thinking.