Saving Faith in Christ is not Faith Alone in Christ

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Just_A__Follower said:
. I haven’t bothered reading any of the scripture you’ve posted after I realized you completely misinterpret most of it.
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And this says it all.

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When someone quotes Scripture to me, then I always read to see if what they say about it, is true or not. If so, I agree. If not, I attempt to show them how they misinterpret it. Either by a better understanding, or by other Scripture proving it.

Your answer to never responding to the Scriptures given to correct your own own words of Faith Alone? Ignore them, because they do not agree with your own Faith Alone.
 
ATG said:
Ok. You understand that salvation by Faith Alone in Christ is without doing any good.

But what about when doing evil?

We all here about the disclaimer of being saved by Faith Alone, without doing any good works. Which of course is quite humble. But what about being saved by Faith Alone when doing evil works?





Once again, when you are sinning, are you saved by your Faith Alone? Or, you are not saved by your Faith Alone when sinning?

Or, you are never sinning, when saved by your Faith Alone?




God forbid. Neither have I.

Some only say that when they do commit iniquity, that their Faith Alone is justifies them, and they are not condemned the same as others doing the same thing.

And every one of them also says that they will do unrighteousness again, and will be still be justified by their Faith Alone.

Difference without a difference. It's not a permission nor license, but a self-justifying excuse to do evil again:

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.




Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:5
And we know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him is not sinning: whosoever is sinning hath not seen him, neither known him.

Since Jesus has no sin in Him, how can He have sin in His body? And, Scripture certainly doesn't say that anyone remains sinful when following Jesus Christ. Only a sinful Christ has sinful followers.

Mat 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

We that repent of our own sinning and trespassing for Jesus' sake, do know that Jesus does take away our sinning and unrighteousness, that by His faith we walk as He walked.

How can any sinful person be walking with Jesus while sinning? Or, do you only follow along stumbling at a distance?

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.



Not sure where this comes from, but OK. The Sabbath is not commanded in the NT. All the other 9 are. Including the First and greatest
commandment:

Deu 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.



No, only if doing evil works, is anyone of that wicked one. And, also not doing the good we know:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever is committing sin is the servant of sin.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning. For this

Can anyone be of that wicked one, and be saved by their Faith Alone? Then neither can anyone be committing iniquity, and be saved by their Faith Alone.



Scripture says works are added to our faith in Jesus Christ, to ensure our salvation is forever:

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;...and to brotherly kindness charity.

Wherefore, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

This has been an interesting exercise in someone stating what no one teaches from Scripture, in order to justify teaching what Scripture never states. Strawman on steroids.



Tell me about it. Doing evil of that wicked one, has nothing to do with being saved from sin by Jesus Christ the righteous.

That actually portrays a sinful salvation that is of an unrighteous Christ.




You've said several amazing things, but I must admit, this one is astounding. And exactly True.

People who declare they are not sinless, and do sin in life, have something dark and badly wrong with their faith. Especially blaming it on the righteous, that are not doing their sinning...

Rev 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:...and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
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You have done a mashup on things I did and did not say. I hope you enjoyed doing it .
 
ATG said:
Whoever said they are not sinning, and I say they live in sin? And yet, when I say I am not sinning, I am accused of living in sin?

If you are only doing good in life, then say so. I won't accuse you of lying, and I certainly wouldn't object to saying you do so by the faith of Jesus, but thank God alone for it.

Phl 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Now you've done it. You've gone and got even the dog confused.

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sawdust said:
ATG said:
I.e. Works are not a condition to obtain saving faith alone without works. Which, of course, refers to the "faith alone" that is faith without works for salvation.

I don't even know what it is you are arguing about. Where have I said faith in a false Christ will produce good works?
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Has nothing to do with the statement.

If you don't say obtaining salvation is by Faith Alone without works, then say so. Otherwise, you can try and be 'different' in the special way you say it...
 
Undergrace1 said:
Did he continue to watch porn as much as he liked? No! in a short space of time he was completely delivered from it.
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Exactly. And so he was delivered by his faith in Jesus Christ, and saved from his sin.

James{2:21}
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

No one is saved by Faith Alone without deliverance from sinful works.

Psa 22:5
They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

2Co 1:10
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Col 1:12
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
 
ATG said:
Has nothing to do with the statement.

If you don't say obtaining salvation is by Faith Alone without works, then say so. Otherwise, you can try and be 'different' in the special way you say it...
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You are as clear as mud. Your statement doesn't make sense to me, which I pointed out, but instead of making yourself clearer you double down on your accusations.

There are no works you can do that will save you except the one the Father commands. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ".

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Believe it or not. If you don't, then you will not produce any of the works God has prepared for you. If you do, then you will go on to produce those works that speak of your salvation.

You want to complicate it like the Pharisees and start listing out all the works required for one to get saved? Go for it but know that no-one who knows the Lord will be reading it.

"He's making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out who's naughty or nice" ;):ROFL:

Have a great day mate.
 
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HealthAndHappiness said:
I John was written to believers who were already saved for time, for eternity.
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John wasn't writing to the souls in the presence of the Lord, that die in Christ on earth.

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Jesus unto the end, not for anyone disobeying Him in darkness.

HealthAndHappiness said:
They were acknowledged as such by John as you can read in the first chapter.
He said that if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him to be a liar.
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Correct. No one on earth can say they never sinned, except Jesus Christ.

Only those souls in His presence, with dead bodies in the grave, can say they have never sinned.

Which has nothing to do with saying we have fellowship with the Son, and have no sin, while walking in darkness.

HealthAndHappiness said:
Then the key to understanding that epistle is the point that he differentiates the old man from the new one who is born again.
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The doubled-hearted do not have two souls, but one evil eye toward sin, and one eye on Jesus Christ:

Luk 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you

Romans 7 is a rebuke to wretchedly doing good and evil. The conclusion is deliverance by Jesus Christ to only do His good, and not evil of the world:

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

HealthAndHappiness said:
The first is of the flesh and cannot be made sinless.
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The first rebuke is that there is no natural thing that is sinful.

Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…

Jesus Christ is still the only Creator and Maker of all things. He is not the maker of any evil thing in heaven, nor on earth.

The devil is not now become the creator and maker of any flesh, to give birth to children of his own from the womb.



HealthAndHappiness said:
Then John explained that the new nature of the new man in Christ Jesus does not sin. Paul explained the same, but in a different way.
If you get this confused, then you will find contradictions in the epistle that just aren't there, Like I John 1:8 KJV.
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If anyone gets confused about the soul no longer doing the sin, but only the body, then they'll get no help from Scripture to believe that delusion.

2Th 2:10
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I don't believe even the New Agers cop out by blaming their bodies for doing wrong. They just say it doesn't matter what they do, in their souls being divine. So while they would agree with the Faith Alone version of having a divine nature, no matter what they do, they don't say "It's just my body's fault for doing evil."
 
ATG said:
And this says it all.

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When someone quotes Scripture to me, then I always read to see if what they say about it, is true or not. If so, I agree. If not, I attempt to show them how they misinterpret it. Either by a better understanding, or by other Scripture proving it.

Your answer to never responding to the Scriptures given to correct your own own words of Faith Alone? Ignore them, because they do not agree with your own Faith Alone.
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You’ve already made the claim that you believe you are perfect. This is the problem with perfection. There is nowhere to go from there. Why would anyone whom believes their self to be perfect be willing to learn? I mean multiple people have tried to explain to you what it means to be saved by faith alone. You in your perfection refuse to listen and learn. Instead you boast of your righteousness with your prideful heart in turn proving to everyone here except your perfect self that in fact you are not free of sin. So once you drop the pride and learn what the simple phrase faith alone means, you will be able to learn more. One who’s knows all will learn nothing.
 
When anyone says that their Faith Alone justifies them with Christ, even while doing evil, then I'll at least acknowledge their honesty, if not their delusion.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

In the meantime, all the pretty speeches and diversions won't justify anyone with Jesus Christ, if doing evil. No matter how many teachings there to go along with being saved and justified by Faith Alone, apart from what we do in our bodies:

Rev 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

nd upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
 
And his best friend from next door who just came over to watch 'Lassie' reruns :cry:


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ATG said:
John wasn't writing to the souls in the presence of the Lord, that die in Christ on earth.

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Jesus unto the end, not for anyone disobeying Him in darkness.


Correct. No one on earth can say they never sinned, except Jesus Christ.

Only those souls in His presence, with dead bodies in the grave, can say they have never sinned.

Which has nothing to do with saying we have fellowship with the Son, and have no sin, while walking in darkness.



The doubled-hearted do not have two souls, but one evil eye toward sin, and one eye on Jesus Christ:

Luk 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you

Romans 7 is a rebuke to wretchedly doing good and evil. The conclusion is deliverance by Jesus Christ to only do His good, and not evil of the world:

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


The first rebuke is that there is no natural thing that is sinful.

Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…

Jesus Christ is still the only Creator and Maker of all things. He is not the maker of any evil thing in heaven, nor on earth.

The devil is not now become the creator and maker of any flesh, to give birth to children of his own from the womb.




If anyone gets confused about the soul no longer doing the sin, but only the body, then they'll get no help from Scripture to believe that delusion.

2Th 2:10
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I don't believe even the New Agers cop out by blaming their bodies for doing wrong. They just say it doesn't matter what they do, in their souls being divine. So while they would agree with the Faith Alone version of having a divine nature, no matter what they do, they don't say "It's just my body's fault for doing evil."
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In addition to what I explained in my last post about the two natures of people who have trusted Christ, Volition aka free will is the key to understanding this doctrine.
"The flesh" is the term used sometimes interchangable with the "old man." The new nature verses the old is the struggle Paul describes in the 7th chapter of Romans. It is not difficult.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
 
I heard this preacher.. great man.. I don't listen to him much but talked a tiny bit about how some say "God told me" how just those words have so much weight to them yet we treat them so easily as if they have no weight at all.

For me .. right there.. I look for "this is what I believe and why". Well what I say here can be said about me also. Who is this op tell me about "Justification by faith alone, means sinners are declared righteous solely through trust in Christ’s finished work, not by their own merits or works. It signifies that Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer, and while true faith inevitably produces good works "

I never new this.. I just new my sin always condemned me. Was ready to quit and He right then (that sweet sweet holy Spirit) asked me "what is righteousness". See He never touched the sin did He nor the condemnation. I said "righteousness is right standing with God". He then asked "How do you get righteousness"? Go for it.. you tell GOD how you get righteousness by all your good 'deeds/works"? I said "by believing in Jesus" man it was like .. and I mean like being blind and you can see. I cried and cried. See this is one of those things you kind a hear about yet I had no clue if it was in Gods word. So I right then went to make sure this is written.

So its great to talk about this but when someone for me leaves out "this is what I believe and why". Were not talking Christ is the only way came in the flesh.. that fact... no debate but this.. 10 pages and.. like talking to a wall. Case in point"

"When anyone says that their Faith Alone justifies them with Christ, even while doing evil, then I'll at least acknowledge their honesty, if not their delusion."

Really? delusion? Can't disagree and show why? Later
 
Just_A__Follower said:
You’ve already made the claim that you believe you are perfect. This is the problem with perfection. There is nowhere to go from there.
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Only up.

1 Thess{5:22}
Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Jde 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Just_A__Follower said:
Why would anyone whom believes their self to be perfect be willing to learn? I mean multiple people have tried to explain to you what it means to be saved by faith alone. You in your perfection refuse to listen and learn. Instead you boast of your righteousness with your prideful heart in turn proving to everyone here except your perfect self that in fact you are not free of sin. So once you drop the pride and learn what the simple phrase faith alone means, you will be able to learn more. One who’s knows all will learn nothing.
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So there! :mad:
Amazing. It's really important for you to proselytize everyone to your life of good and evil. Apparently as much as it was with the serpent.

Gen 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Why indeed would anyone made perfectly whole in Jesus Christ, want to learn how to go back to part-time sinning by Faith Alone.

2Th 2:17

Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

2Th 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

You all have gone through your usual litany of justification while sinning by Faith Alone, and ignore every Scripture, as above, that the Faith of Jesus only does good, and keeps us from doing evil.

Now all you have is some sort of Faith Alone demand and cajoling program. So that every Christian must conform to your life of doing good and evil. And with furious rebukes for any that sin not with you.

Jhn 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jhn 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
 
ATG said:
Has nothing to do with the statement.

If you don't say obtaining salvation is by Faith Alone without works, then say so. Otherwise, you can try and be 'different' in the special way you say it...
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Why can't there be another option? Why must it be a dichotomy? We say salvation is by Faith Alone, but not by a faith that is alone.

Faith + Works is God + Us. We don't contribute to our salvation.
Faith Alone without works following is a dead faith and not a real faith to begin with. That's just Us.
Faith Alone with works following is just God, who saves us and then works through us to produce good works.
 
ATG said:
Only up.

1 Thess{5:22}
Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Jde 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


So there! :mad:
Amazing. It's really important for you to proselytize everyone to your life of good and evil. Apparently as much as it was with the serpent.

Gen 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Why indeed would anyone made perfectly whole in Jesus Christ, want to learn how to go back to part-time sinning by Faith Alone.

2Th 2:17

Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

2Th 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

You all have gone through your usual litany of justification while sinning by Faith Alone, and ignore every Scripture, as above, that the Faith of Jesus only does good, and keeps us from doing evil.

Now all you have is some sort of Faith Alone demand and cajoling program. So that every Christian must conform to your life of doing good and evil. And with furious rebukes for any that sin not with you.

Jhn 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jhn 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
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Ok
 
HealthAndHappiness said:
In addition to what I explained in my last post about the two natures of people who have trusted Christ, Volition aka free will is the key to understanding this doctrine.
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In addition to ignoring the counter arguments of Scripture, you wish to double down on what you've already said.

No problem. I'll continue the counter arguments of Scripture.

HealthAndHappiness said:
"The flesh" is the term used sometimes interchangable with the "old man."
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False teaching of Faith Alone.

Scripture never says that the flesh is the old man, nor that there is the old man of the flesh.

HealthAndHappiness said:
The new nature verses the old is the struggle Paul describes in the 7th chapter of Romans.
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Correct. It's spiritual warfare within the soul, not with the flesh. The natural body will only do what the spirit of a man wills.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

The new nature vs the old is only spiritual, and only present within the soul of the double hearted:

2Co 10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds . Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

If a child of God begins to conceive his own lust again against the Spirit of Christ, then the double minded man becomes unstable in faith toward God.

Jas 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Jas 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

The child of God is becoming a friend of the world again by his own lust, and if he transgresses by his lust with the world, then he becomes another enemy of God.

Jas 1:14
Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 4:8
Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.


HealthAndHappiness said:
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
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Correct. The soul of the double hearted is lusting against the Spirit, and is in danger of transgression and death to God.

The natural body is stuck in between, like a person hesitating in one direction or another, until choosing one or the other. It's not the body, that is willing or refusing either way.

Blaming the natural body for a person's own spiritual lust against the Spirit of Christ, is for ungrown children and spiritual hypocrites, that do not take responsibility for their bad deeds.

"I know I do bad things, but my heart is still good." "It's only my body's fault."

Those who believe Romans 7 is instruction to Christians on how to be double minded for life by their Faith Alone, never go to the end of the Chapter, where Paul declares deliverance by the faith of Jesus Christ from a life of doing good and evil:

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
NightTwister said:
Why can't there be another option? Why must it be a dichotomy? We say salvation is by Faith Alone, but not by a faith that is alone.

Faith + Works is God + Us. We don't contribute to our salvation.
Faith Alone without works following is a dead faith and not a real faith to begin with. That's just Us.
Faith Alone with works following is just God, who saves us and then works through us to produce good works.
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His mind is shut to truth and protected by layers of ego and unsound reasoning.
 
Blade said:
I just new my sin always condemned me. Was ready to quit
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When I finally knew all sin is against God, I wasn't ready to quit sinning. So, I didn't repent. However, I did for the first time in my life begin to pray the only prayer I knew God might hear, "Thank you for your mercy in not dying today and still convicting me of my sinning. I know I still need to repent. Help me to repent." I didn't repent right away, but the day did come when He gave me faith to do so, and I did. I knew I was now forgiven for all my past sinning, and I could now go on to do good with Jesus.

Blade said:
and He right then (that sweet sweet holy Spirit) asked me "what is righteousness". See He never touched the sin did He nor the condemnation.
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Because He already did. And you already knew you were condemned, the same as me. And He continued to do so by His Spirit of grace, to continue drawing me to repentance for His sake.

Sinners should thank God for being convicted to repent, rather than searing the conscience to the Spirit of grace, as though His conviction is an evil thing.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Blade said:
I said "righteousness is right standing with God". He then asked "How do you get righteousness"? Go for it.. you tell GOD how you get righteousness by all your good 'deeds/works"? I said "by believing in Jesus" man it was like .. and I mean like being blind and you can see. I cried and cried.
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I wept at the first, and even more so now with joy, when after some time of double heartedness between doing good and evil, I now know I have Jesus' faith to only do good. The truth of His freedom is not to even think about evil, much less do it. I went from worrying and fighting against sinning, to not worrying about, and naturally doing good.

2Co 10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh

Mat 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

So, the matter of repenting first had to be dealt with by God. And then the matter of only doing good, and not evil. Only by the grace of God can we repent from the heart, and only by the faith of Jesus can we only do good with a pure heart.



Blade said:
So its great to talk about this but when someone for me leaves out "this is what I believe and why". Were not talking Christ is the only way came in the flesh.. that fact... no debate but this.. 10 pages and.. like talking to a wall. Case in point"
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Exactly. Scriptural disputes aside, nothing matters other than our faith from Jesus to now do good, and not evil.

Blade said:
"When anyone says that their Faith Alone justifies them with Christ, even while doing evil, then I'll at least acknowledge their honesty, if not their delusion."

Really? delusion? Can't disagree and show why? Later
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And so, since you want to, back to the dispute at hand.

If you agree in being justified by your Faith Alone in Christ while doing evil, then you're at least honest about it. Though delusional. Which is not my personal problem of course, since I only answer for my own soul and life.

And even as you say, it really isn't just about doctrinal dispute. Rather, it's a matter of honoring or dishonoring Jesus Christ. If someone wants to believe their Faith Alone justifies them, whether doing good or evil, then that's their faith. However, it only stays their faith and problem, so long as no one then tries to say that their Faith Alone is in fact Jesus' faith. That becomes a false accusation against Jesus Christ the righteous, that he does not deserve. By His righteous faith Jesus always pleases God and never does any evil. And by that same righteous faith, Jesus never allows nor justifies His beloved brethren to do otherwise.

Heb 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Jesus never justifies any sin, nor anyone while sinning. People have to trust in their own Faith Alone to justify themselves, while doing any wrong. Jesus Himself never does.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

And so, anyone can say their Faith Alone in Christ saves them, apart from their works, and there will certainly be doctrinal disputes about that. But never let anyone say, that it is Jesus' faith that they have, while sinning against God.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
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