Loss of salvation???

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Cameron143 said:
He obviously doesn't understand by his answers, and the question is Jesus' way of both making that plain and chastising him.

The difference between you and Nicodemus is that you are saved and have ears to hear. He could not discern spiritual truth. This is also made plain by his questions. So your pastor speaking to you and other Christians is very different from him speaking to non-Christians or Jesus speaking to an individual who has no clue about spiritual matters.
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Again, I know he doesn't understand, that is not the issue. It is about Jesus' expectation, not about Nicodemus' understanding or lack of it. You keep looking at my point back to front.

Nicodemus, as a teacher of the Law, should have known the truth. The fact he didn't understand the most basic necessity to a relationship with God says a lot about him but says nothing about Jesus.
 
sawdust said:
Again, I know he doesn't understand, that is not the issue. It is about Jesus' expectation, not about Nicodemus' understanding or lack of it. You keep looking at my point back to front.

Nicodemus, as a teacher of the Law, should have known the truth. The fact he didn't understand the most basic necessity to a relationship with God says a lot about him but says nothing about Jesus.
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Do you believe Jesus didn't know the spiritual estate of Nicodemus before they spoke?
 
sawdust said:
Again, I know he doesn't understand, that is not the issue. It is about Jesus' expectation, not about Nicodemus' understanding or lack of it. You keep looking at my point back to front.

Nicodemus, as a teacher of the Law, should have known the truth. The fact he didn't understand the most basic necessity to a relationship with God says a lot about him but says nothing about Jesus.
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He knows what he is doing.
He sees you as having good intentions and being naive about him.

You are a toy to him.
 
Ouch said:
No, and didn't need to be we do.
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So what depending on the circumstances you dont need to be baptized?

You do know that baptizing is the new testament circumcision right? How many times does the Bible say circumcision has no advantage? Baptism is a good thing. But once you start telling people you must get baptized in order to go to heaven. People start doing it just so they can go to heaven. You are turning an act of faith into a work of the law by pushing that nonsense.
 
Jackson129 said:
So what depending on the circumstances you dont need to be baptized?

You do know that baptizing is the new testament circumcision right? How many times does the Bible say circumcision has no advantage? Baptism is a good thing. But once you start telling people you must get baptized in order to go to heaven. People start doing it just so they can go to heaven. You are turning an act of faith into a work of the law by pushing that nonsense.
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You do know we are born in sin right?

You do know HIS WORD, NOT MINE says to get rid of it we have to be baptized in JESUS name right?

You do know sin seperates us from GOD and will NOT enter Heaven right?

So if not baptism how do you think we get rid of our sins???

Of course we not only need to be baptized we also need JESUS to fill us with HIS spirit.
 
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Jesus never knew these many people who trusted in their works for salvation which means they were never saved.

Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Jesus Christ - Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) they remained in their sins. Hence, workers of iniquity/practice lawlessness.

What were they missing? What was the Father's will that they failed to do in order to receive eternal life?

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
 
sawdust said:
It's not about Nicodemus.
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Jesus knowing the spiritual estate of Nicodemus is about Jesus.

Jesus used the opportunity of speaking with Nicodemus to teach truth. This is often the case with the Lord. Jesus knows His own and who God has given to Him. Nicodemus was not in that lot, at least not at that time. He could not understand spiritual things. Jesus was aware of this. He simply proclaimed truth to Nicodemus, just as He did for all. He knew that those who have ears to hear will hear, and those who don't will not.
 
Ouch said:
You do know we are born in sin right?

You do know HIS WORD, NOT MINE says to get rid of it we have to be baptized in JESUS name right?

You do know sin seperates us from GOD and will NOT enter Heaven right?

So if not baptism how do you think we get rid of our sins???

Of course we not only need to be baptized we also need JESUS to fill us with HIS spirit.
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How did the thief get rid of his sins?
 
Jackson129 said:
So what depending on the circumstances you dont need to be baptized?

You do know that baptizing is the new testament circumcision right? How many times does the Bible say circumcision has no advantage? Baptism is a good thing. But once you start telling people you must get baptized in order to go to heaven. People start doing it just so they can go to heaven. You are turning an act of faith into a work of the law by pushing that nonsense.
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You get them concentrating on a work to do. Not Christ.

​
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?​
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, ​
and thy house. Acts 16:30-31​

Water baptism for the church age is a fool's solution for gaining eternal life.

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved is the only solution.

.
 
mailmandan said:
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Jesus never knew these many people who trusted in their works for salvation which means they were never saved.

Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Jesus Christ - Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) they remained in their sins. Hence, workers of iniquity/practice lawlessness.

What were they missing? What was the Father's will that they failed to do in order to receive eternal life?

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
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I say being baptized in JESUS name, since they believed and was working for him.

So many people are the same way today.
Jackson129 said:
How did the thief get rid of his sins?
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JESUS forgave them, how do we?
 
Genez said:
You get them concentrating on a work to do. Not Christ.

​
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?​
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, ​
and thy house. Acts 16:30-31​

Water baptism for the church age is a fool's solution for gaining eternal life.

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved is the only solution.

.
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If you haven't been baptized in JESUS name then this is not a issue anyway you are all ready damemd!!

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

That is if you belive JESUS since HE'S the one who said it.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
Jackson129 said:
How did the thief get rid of his sins?
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Watch...

He won't answer, and the question will be forgotten.

Works like a charm....

Yes. It is true. God saves even the ignorant, hard-headed souls that are willing to believe in Him.

You got to know what you are dealing with.
 
Ouch said:
If you haven't been baptized in JESUS name then this is not a issue anyway you are all ready damemd!!

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

That is if you belive JESUS since HE'S the one who said it.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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How do you go from saying the thief got rid of his sins because Jesus forgave them to you are dammed for not being baptized ??? Which is it ?? Is it your faith in Jesus or being baptized that gets rid of your sin?
 
Genez said:
Watch...

He won't answer, and the question will be forgotten.

Works like a charm....

Yes. It is true. God saves even the ignorant, hard-headed souls that are willing to believe in Him.

You got to know what you are dealing with.
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If your refering to me?

I'm going to anwer his question as I did your, that would make you a lair right?

I'm here to help save the lost, if the lost what to be saved?
 
Jackson129 said:
How do you go from saying the thief got rid of his sins because Jesus forgave them to you are dammed for not being baptized ??? Which is it ?? Is it your faith in Jesus or being baptized that gets rid of your sin?
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Didn't I ask YOU how we get rid of our sin???

Why didn't you reply??

They are both true!!!!

JESUS forgave him and we are dammed if WE don't get baptized becaue if we don't we will never get rid of ours.

So many people don't understand the reason the thief didn't need to be baptized and we do inculding me.

We ALL need to be humble, here's why.

We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

Does that clear it up??? Your thought?
 
Cameron143 said:
Jesus knowing the spiritual estate of Nicodemus is about Jesus.

Jesus used the opportunity of speaking with Nicodemus to teach truth. This is often the case with the Lord. Jesus knows His own and who God has given to Him. Nicodemus was not in that lot, at least not at that time. He could not understand spiritual things. Jesus was aware of this. He simply proclaimed truth to Nicodemus, just as He did for all. He knew that those who have ears to hear will hear, and those who don't will not.
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He became aware when Nicodemus showed his ignorance hence, Christ's remark about being a teacher of Israel.

Jesus functioned as a man during the Incarnation not as omniscient God. He had to rely on the Father for His information. Have you not experienced the Spirit's leading when speaking with someone and how you simply speak the truth as you not it to be but are unaware of the effect it has on the person until they open their mouth and speak?

As far as I am concerned, it was the very question Christ spoke regarding Nicodemus' ignorance that shows us Christ did not walk around knowing beforehand who would hear and who would not until they gave their response.
 
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