And verse 13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven. Even the son of man which is in heaven. Which means only God a spirit and Jesus God in the flesh have been in heaven or are in heaven Moses, Enoch, Elijah must be somewhere else
John 3:5. The water and the spirit the only way to heaven
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No person has ascended up to heaven before Jesus.
So Enoch and Elijah that were caught up did not go there.
Jesus is God who is an omnipresent Spirit is how He could be in heaven and earth at the same time.
Like He told the thief on the cross that He will be with the thief in paradise although His soul went to hell to conquer death and hell.
The Bible says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
And a saint is saved and the kingdom of God is within the saints.
So they can go to be with Jesus when they die.
So Moses, Enoch, and Elijah are with Jesus.
Which when Jesus was transfigured on a mountain Elijah and Moses was with Him.
Hello @Agilberti, first off, since I see that you are a new member here, welcome to CChat!
As far as John 3:13 goes, it is a difficult verse to properly understand, as understanding what the Lord was actually saying there requires a bit of historical context as well.
Here's a short Q & A article that may prove helpful, and it even includes the NLT's translation of v13 which, granted, is a paraphrase, but I think a very useful one in this case. Enjoy
~Deuteronomy
As far as John 3:13 goes, it is a difficult verse to properly understand, as understanding what the Lord was actually saying there requires a bit of historical context as well.
Here's a short Q & A article that may prove helpful, and it even includes the NLT's translation of v13 which, granted, is a paraphrase, but I think a very useful one in this case. Enjoy
Q: Does John 3:13 mean that no one went to Heaven before Jesus?
A: In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.
We must keep the verse in context. In John 3:10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).
The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”
In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).
Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject. ~Does John 3:13 mean that no one went to heaven before Jesus? | GotQuestions.org
God bless you!!~Deuteronomy
Hello Tablet123, I agree with most of what you said in your post, especially the important points that you made in your last 5 sentences
I thought that the above may be worth talking about however, especially because I believe that Enoch and Elijah (neither of whom died) were assumed directly into Heaven.
First of all, while Sheol (in the OT) was where the dead, both saint and reprobate, were sent when they died (to Hades or to Paradise/Abraham's Bosom, both of which were found in Sheol), neither Enoch nor Elijah had died when they were taken by God.
Also, while we know more about Enoch via traditional teaching, what happened to Elijah and (specifically in this case) where he was taken (to Heaven/שָׁמַיִם/shamayim)* is made pretty clear for us in the Bible, yes?
2 Kings 2
11 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind ... to heaven.
Thoughts?
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy
*שָׁמַיִם means: 1 heaven, heavens, sky. 1A visible heavens, sky. 1A1 as abode of the stars. 1A2 as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc. 1B Heaven (as the abode of God) ~Strong’s Lexicon
