Alcohol Damages Health

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Just because someone says it’s the best wine or praises it doesn’t automatically mean it’s alcoholic. People can praise a number of drinks that doesn’t have alcohol or an intoxicating effect in it. There could be a number of reasons people think highly of a certain drink. Doesn’t mean it is alcoholic. To assume it’s alcoholic simply because it says wine is not wise. Why would Jesus make something to be alcoholic/intoxicating to be highly praised, when it can affect one’s soberness? Why would He make something for people to consume that can actively impair judgment, clouds the mind, and risks sin? Would the wise, Christ-like, God-honoring, Spirit-filled, gospel-centered and sober minded thing to do today is to go start drinking alcohol? As I said earlier (and this will be my final post on this thread), if others want to drink, then that is their choice, but the safest and wisest for me (and others) is not to drink.
 
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Luke1710 said:
The Higher Gospel strikes again. Well, at least we know he's not drunk. Stoned maybe? Whatever he's smoking, I'll take a hard pass.

According to the scriptures, Christ not only consumed wine, but made it. Were it alcohol free, I doubt the captain of the feast would have spoken of His wine so highly. Christ also preached against drunkenness. Paul advised Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach. Strange? Not really.

Is it really all that difficult to understand Gods thoughts on alcohol. Or to refrain from judgment, or placing unnecessary burdens upon people? Apparently for some, it absolutely is.

Being completely transparent, I'm not a big drinker, but I do have a very difficult time eating Mexican food without a Negra Modello to wash it down with. I drank two beers just last night, and I have to admit, I felt a little guilty, but its been almost five months since I last had an alcoholic beverage. During that time, I've consumed maybe a twelve pack of soda. Now that's something I actually feel seriously bad about each and every time I do it. Soda is straight poison, and my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, I know better.

I wonder if the OP drinks soda, eats fast food, or maybe indulges in the occasional Little Debbie? Whatever the case, I do pray that he eventually learns that its not what goes in the mouth that defiles a man.
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Wine is a generic term for fruit juice as in fruit of the vine.
Some uses are obvious as to whether or not the term wine is referring to fermented or unfermented. You have to look at context to determine.
In other cases, such as Jesus' miracle at the wedding, you cannot assume it is alcohol.

1. Was everyone already drunk?

2. Was Jesus contributing to further drunkenness by a first miracle bartender?

3. Is Jesus fulfilling the law by not only condoning drunkenness, but also contributing to it?

4. Is God tempting men to sin?

5. Is God inspiring OT Scripture forbidding drunkenness, but making an exception for special events?

6. Is new wine No good, because only drunkenness feels good and brings joy.

7. Is this never true for a delicious sweet beverage though?

These are just a few questions I ask myself if I want an honest answer in spite of my flesh that has been biased to drink all sorts of intoxicating beverages in my past.

I can agree with you on the last items you mentioned.
As to the Little Debbie snack cakes and constant use of high fructose corn syrup, I can make a case that it is highly addictive and damaging to the body in more than occasional consumption. The fact is that they are made of industrial chemicals the God never made for consumption. Main ingredient Hydrogenated oils, for instance are incredibly harmful. Many suffered strokes from eating those. I gave up on eating little Debbie brand from that point on.
I recently bought a bag of Ghirardelli chocolate that was half price. I assumed it was good quality until I read the label. That reminds me that I need to have a talk with company management who has authority to change the ingredient, hydrogenated oil to a safe one like coconut.

The Phosphoric acid and sweeteners used in most common soda pop are harmful and killed lots of people prematurely. I hate the companies that destroy lives like that.
These would be harming the temple of the Holy Spirit.
 
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TruthDefender said:
I enjoy wine with a meal, Euro habit/ culture. However, I only drink on occasion.
Scripture states to drink a little wine for your stomach’s sake and frequent infirmities. It is a healthy thing with food. Anything fermented, food/drink is good for health.
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Some is good. A good amount can kill off parasites and bad bacteria because after all it is a poison like most medicines. The problem is a much higher dose will damage more. Way too much at once can lead to complete alcohol poisoning and death. But of course you can also die from drinking too much water at once although less likely. And also although it can kill off bad bacteria it will do the same to the good bacteria. Our immune system starts in our gut. Our bodies depend on good bacteria for digestion and fighting off bad bacteria that cause sickness. It can also damage the gut lining but of course the casein found in cows milk can also affect the gut lining negatively. For me the cons outweigh the pros. One can make a case for anything though I guess. I’ve actually heard people say that cocaine is ok in moderation 😂. To each his own. Is it a sin to drink? No. Is it a sin to not drink? No. Is it a sin if you get hammered and go streaking thru town? Yes. I don’t think it’s the drinking that’s bad spiritually, it what it can lead to.
 
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HealthAndHappiness said:
Wine is a generic term for fruit juice as in fruit of the vine.
Some uses are obvious as to whether or not the term wine is referring to fermented or unfermented. You have to look at context to determine.
In other cases, such as Jesus' miracle at the wedding, you cannot assume it is alcohol.

1. Was everyone already drunk?

2. Was Jesus contributing to further drunkenness by a first miracle bartender?

3. Is Jesus fulfilling the law by not only condoning drunkenness, but also contributing to it?

4. Is God tempting men to sin?

5. Is God inspiring OT Scripture forbidding drunkenness, but making an exception for special events?

6. Is new wine No good, because only drunkenness feels good and brings joy.

7. Is this never true for a delicious sweet beverage though?

These are just a few questions I ask myself if I want an honest answer in spite of my flesh that has been biased to drink all sorts of intoxicating beverages in my past.

I can agree with you on the last items you mentioned.
As to the Little Debbie snack cakes and constant use of high fructose corn syrup, I can make a case that it is highly addictive and damaging to the body in more than occasional consumption. The fact is that they are made of industrial chemicals the God never made for consumption. Main ingredient Hydrogenated oils, for instance are incredibly harmful. Many suffered strokes from eating those. I gave up on eating little Debbie brand from that point on.
I recently bought a bag of Ghirardelli chocolate that was half price. I assumed it was good quality until I read the label. That reminds me that I need to have a talk with company management who has authority to change the ingredient, hydrogenated oil to a safe one like coconut.

The Phosphoric acid and sweeteners used in most common soda pop are harmful and killed lots of people prematurely. I hate the companies that destroy lives like that.
These would be harming the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
I’ve wondered a lot about the fermented vs unfermented wine a good bit. Also the new wine vs old wine. Did Jesus contribute to drunkenness at the wedding? I doubt it. It is sad to see some use it as an excuse to just get hammered though. Coming up on the ol’ pagan holiday of Mardis Gras down here and you’ll see people going to mass in the morning and by 8pm they are hammered at a parade doing things that don’t need to even be talked about. Gotta get it out the system before lent. Very sad.
 
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Just_A__Follower said:
I’ve wondered a lot about the fermented vs unfermented wine a good bit. Also the new wine vs old wine. Did Jesus contribute to drunkenness at the wedding? I doubt it. It is sad to see some use it as an excuse to just get hammered though. Coming up on the ol’ pagan holiday of Mardis Gras down here and you’ll see people going to mass in the morning and by 8pm they are hammered at a parade doing things that don’t need to even be talked about. Gotta get it out the system before lent. Very sad.
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What is it called, I forgot, Fat Tuesday? Hedonism and drunkenness is permissable before they give up a vice for the week, or something like that.
If you are talking about New Orleans LA I have seen a video of the parade a long time ago.
I agree, between the RC celebration and the voodoo shops it's a bad place to be.
 
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HealthAndHappiness said:
Wine is a generic term for fruit juice as in fruit of the vine.
Some uses are obvious as to whether or not the term wine is referring to fermented or unfermented. You have to look at context to determine.
In other cases, such as Jesus' miracle at the wedding, you cannot assume it is alcohol.

1. Was everyone already drunk?

2. Was Jesus contributing to further drunkenness by a first miracle bartender?

3. Is Jesus fulfilling the law by not only condoning drunkenness, but also contributing to it?

4. Is God tempting men to sin?

5. Is God inspiring OT Scripture forbidding drunkenness, but making an exception for special events?

6. Is new wine No good, because only drunkenness feels good and brings joy.

7. Is this never true for a delicious sweet beverage though?

These are just a few questions I ask myself if I want an honest answer in spite of my flesh that has been biased to drink all sorts of intoxicating beverages in my past.

I can agree with you on the last items you mentioned.
As to the Little Debbie snack cakes and constant use of high fructose corn syrup, I can make a case that it is highly addictive and damaging to the body in more than occasional consumption. The fact is that they are made of industrial chemicals the God never made for consumption. Main ingredient Hydrogenated oils, for instance are incredibly harmful. Many suffered strokes from eating those. I gave up on eating little Debbie brand from that point on.
I recently bought a bag of Ghirardelli chocolate that was half price. I assumed it was good quality until I read the label. That reminds me that I need to have a talk with company management who has authority to change the ingredient, hydrogenated oil to a safe one like coconut.

The Phosphoric acid and sweeteners used in most common soda pop are harmful and killed lots of people prematurely. I hate the companies that destroy lives like that.
These would be harming the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
I reject the fruit juice argument entirely. But if it makes you feel better, go with it.

The context of Christs first miracle, clearly indicates that wine able to induce intoxication was being served.

Christ was a Nazarene, not a Nazarite. For Him to consume fermented beverages would not have been sinful, in violation of the Torah, or in anyway disqualified Him from His role as Redeemer.
 
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Luke1710 said:
I reject the fruit juice argument entirely. But if it makes you feel better, go with it.

The context of Christs first miracle, clearly indicates that wine able to induce intoxication was being served.

Christ was a Nazarene, not a Nazarite. For Him to consume fermented beverages would not have been sinful, in violation of the Torah, or in anyway disqualified Him from His role as Redeemer.
Click to expand...
Was it fermented? Probably. Do we know what the alcohol content was? No. Wine would’ve had less alcohol in general then as it was naturally fermented. They didn’t add sacks of processed sugar to it and they used the natural yeasts to ferment it meaning less sugar to be converted to alcohol and a less efficient process of conversion.

Either way if what one takes away from that miracle is an excuse to drink, then they completely missed the celebration of marriage as in our marriage to Him. I know if Jesus made me wine today you can bet I would break my sobriety and drink it. I can only imagine it would go great with some of His fish and bread.
 
TruthDefender said:
My condolences to you and your family. It’s never easy to lose a family member. I lost my dad when I was 7 so I know how hard it was.

I’m happy to hear you found Christ! Best thing ever!!
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have been learning, learned to be joyful in spite of all the troubles. knowing eternity with no more pain ever is better than here to gain anything selfishly
Phil 3
 
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Blue155 said:
I choose to abstain from alcoholic drinks for many reasons. If others want to drink, then that is their choice, but the safest and wisest for me (and others) is not to drink. For me, If I never drink then I will never become an alcoholic. For me, I will never have to worry about becoming one. For me, I will never have to worry about whether I’m sinning or being in violation of my conscience. For me, I will never have to worry about going over “the limit”. For me, I will never have to worry about whether I’m drunk. For me, I will never have to worry about being a bad influence. For me, I will never have to worry whether I’m being filled with wine (or any other alcoholic drink).

If it’s not a sin to drink and I never drink, then I’m not sinning by not drinking. And if it is a sin and I don’t drink, then I’m still not sinning. If it’s not a sin and I do begin drinking, then I’m opening up myself for a lot of worries and a lot of violations on my conscience and mind. That’s why the safest and wisest route today (for me) is not to drink.

Some people demand explicit Scripture of a “Thou shalt not” to prove something shouldn’t be done, (as if the absence of a direct prohibition automatically makes it acceptable). Yet those same people do not apply that standard consistently for other actions in life or worship.

In other words, they require proof for some choices or behaviors but not for others, even when the same logic about wisdom, holiness, or proper living would apply.
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Good for you! However you are still concerned that it is sinful to do so, BUT you will not have to deal with that because you don’t drink. You made this very clear.

However your thoughts in writing is catering towards the hammy down prohibition that we all should pander to; falsely added to the gospel. This is sin.

I have no problem with people who don’t want to drink, for whatever reason, but I do have a BIG problem with false doctrine.
The fact that you can’t give me any Scripture to validate your prohibition tells me that it is false; also, because I know there is nothing there. You can’t just make things up, simply because you want to believe it, or because it’s been a 150 yr old man-made tradition in some church.
 
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HealthAndHappiness said:
I've never seen anything good come from drinking it. Many families were broken and harmed.
The only times I've heard of any starting are rare occasions when a couple met in a bar and actually did get married.
There are plenty of warnings and bad examples in the Bible for us to learn from too. I hope any teenagers reading this thread will remember that.
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Today’s time is no different than yesterday’s time period. People are no different from Jesus’ time! The same wickedness exists.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
Was it fermented? Probably. Do we know what the alcohol content was? No. Wine would’ve had less alcohol in general then as it was naturally fermented. They didn’t add sacks of processed sugar to it and they used the natural yeasts to ferment it meaning less sugar to be converted to alcohol and a less efficient process of conversion.

Either way if what one takes away from that miracle is an excuse to drink, then they completely missed the celebration of marriage as in our marriage to Him. I know if Jesus made me wine today you can bet I would break my sobriety and drink it. I can only imagine it would go great with some of His fish and bread.
Click to expand...

Scripture is full of people getting drunk for 1000’s of years. I highly doubt through your minuscule, hyper analyzation that there is much of a difference.
 
homwardbound said:
have been learning, learned to be joyful in spite of all the troubles. knowing eternity with no more pain ever is better than here to gain anything selfishly
Phil 3
Click to expand...

Yes, amen! :)
However, we need to call out false doctrine….. or we go along with the status quo.
 
Luke1710 said:
I reject the fruit juice argument entirely. But if it makes you feel better, go with it.

The context of Christs first miracle, clearly indicates that wine able to induce intoxication was being served.

Christ was a Nazarene, not a Nazarite. For Him to consume fermented beverages would not have been sinful, in violation of the Torah, or in anyway disqualified Him from His role as Redeemer.
Click to expand...

I don't base my beliefs on emotions or feelings.
The list of half a dozen plus questions that I asked and found answers to were based upon sound, reasonable rules of interpretation.

The Nazarite vow excluded all forms of the fruit of the vine . There are others who probably make that false claim, but I never indicated that Jesus took that vow.
 
TruthDefender said:
Scripture is full of people getting drunk for 1000’s of years. I highly doubt through your minuscule, hyper analyzation that there is much of a difference.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say the difference was big. But there is a difference. There are still wineries that make natural wine today only using what sugar is in the grape. I also didn’t say that they couldn’t get drunk off of it. You can get just as drunk off beer which has way less alcohol by volume. One difference is that natural wine is healthier though.
 
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While wine mingled (mixed) with water has been mentioned in intoxicating contexts (See BlueLetterBible), in Proverbs 9, it is lady wisdom (verse 1) who is providing the mingled wine here. Obviously lady wisdom would not want to intoxicate people.

Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki) composed a commentary on Proverbs during the final two decades of his life, roughly 1080s–1105, amid his extensive work on the Tanakh.

Here is Rashi confirming that מָסְכָה (māsekāh) (mingled - KJV) (mixed) in context to "mixed wine" is a wine mixed or diluted with water:


Rashi Prov 9 verse 2.png


Source:
https://www.sefaria.org/Rashi_on_Proverbs.9.2?lang=bi
 
HealthAndHappiness said:
I don't base my beliefs on emotions or feelings.
The list of half a dozen plus questions that I asked and found answers to were based upon sound, reasonable rules of interpretation.

The Nazarite vow excluded all forms of the fruit of the vine . There are others who probably make that false claim, but I never indicated that Jesus took that vow.
Click to expand...
Sound and reasonable according to you.
And thanks for the big red x, I will wear it as a badge of honor. Health and Happiness, are you healthy? Happy? You seem a little tense.
 
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ἄκρατος (akratos) – “without mixture”

Key verse cited: Revelation 14:10​
​
Deeper semantic layer: undiluted potency, not merely “pure.”​
​
Revelation 14:10 (KJV)​
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:"​


Pre-1700s Sources (Before German Rationalism):

Hesychius of Alexandria (5th century)
Entry: ἄκρατος: ἄμικτος, καθαρὸς οἶνος (unmixed, pure wine; denoting undiluted strength, not moral purity).
Links:
Suda Lexicon (10th century)
Entry: ἄκρατος: οἶνος μὴ κεκραμένος (wine not mixed with water; emphasizing potency).
Links:
Henri Estienne, Thesaurus Graecae Linguae (1572)
Entry: ἄκρατος: vinum merum, non aqua dilutum (unmixed wine, not diluted with water; contrasted with κεκραμένος).
Links:
Johannes Scapula, Lexicon Graeco-Latinum (1619)
Entry: ἄκρατος: merus, non mixtus (full-strength wine, unmixed).
Links:

Hopefully this helps and may God bless you all.




.....
 
Luke1710 said:
Sound and reasonable according to you.
And thanks for the big red x, I will wear it as a badge of honor. Health and Happiness, are you healthy? Happy? You seem a little tense.
Click to expand...

You are new here unless you had multiple aliases. I would take time to read what those symbols say. The big red X says it means that I "disagree."
Well, you clearly disagreed with me and misrepresented, not once, but twice, what I said previously.
Did you misunderstand what I said?
 
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