144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
LTL said:
It appears that Manassas was the thirteenth tribe. Because, as has been shown, Levi never lost his status as a member of the twelve. Even though he was pulled aside to function in the priest's capacity for the whole of Israel.
Click to expand...

And for around 1500 years, from Moses to 70AD, Levi was not numbered among the 12 tribes, which was most of natural Israel's history.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
And for around 1500 years, from Moses to 70AD, Levi was not numbered among the 12 tribes, which was most of natural Israel's history.
Click to expand...

It appears that you hold the opinion that Israel is dead and gone. Or perhaps you believe that Judah and Israel are the same thing? Judah is one tribe, and Ben mixed with it. The other ten were the northern kingdom, Israel.

So context is important. 1) Israel represents the twelve and/or the thirteen tribes. 2) Also, Israel represents the northern ten tribes. 3) And Israel represents the nation-state of Israel today.

1) These twelve and/or thirteen tribes exist today, literally. Because, two are in Judah, and ten are lost.
2) Israel represents the northern ten tribes today.
3) Israel is the nation-state of Israel today, but having only Judah and Ben.
 
LTL said:
It appears that you hold the opinion that Israel is dead and gone. Or perhaps you believe that Judah and Israel are the same thing? Judah is one tribe, and Ben mixed with it. The other ten were the northern kingdom, Israel.

So context is important. 1) Israel represents the twelve and/or the thirteen tribes. 2) Also, Israel represents the northern ten tribes. 3) And Israel represents the nation-state of Israel today.

1) These twelve and/or thirteen tribes exist today, literally. Because, two are in Judah, and ten are lost.
2) Israel represents the northern ten tribes today.
3) Israel is the nation-state of Israel today, but having only Judah and Ben.
Click to expand...

God's Israel is not dead and gone. Natural Israel was sown in death among the nations in 722BC, and a remnant of it was raised out of the dead on Pentecost when it along with a remnant of Judah were birthed from above into God's holy nation, ie, spiritual Israel. This nation born in a day (Isaiah 66:8) was the beginning of the fulfillment of Jacob's prophecy (Genesis 48:19) that the seed of Ephraim, which name is used synonymously with Israel in scripture, would become a fullness of gentiles, making Israel as the stars of heaven in number, as promised to Abraham.

So the Israel that lives before God forever is the one new man created in Christ that is comprised of believing Jew and gentile. Natural distinctions no longer mean anything because everything is spiritual now
 
LTL said:
It appears that Manassas was the thirteenth tribe. Because, as has been shown, Levi never lost his status as a member of the twelve. Even though he was pulled aside to function in the priest's capacity for the whole of Israel.
Click to expand...
The theory is that Dan was removed due to sin.

So the tribes( due to levi being set apart) can be numbered several ways due to Jacob having his 2 sons and Manasses being counted.

It is not Even worth debating, because what is going on, is some ridiculous argument that there are no more Jews, no more tribes, and POOOF!!!!! replacement theology spin proves their point.

However, when they swept God's word under the rug, we see it sticking out to the ceiling.
 
LTL said:
It appears that you hold the opinion that Israel is dead and gone. Or perhaps you believe that Judah and Israel are the same thing? Judah is one tribe, and Ben mixed with it. The other ten were the northern kingdom, Israel.

So context is important. 1) Israel represents the twelve and/or the thirteen tribes. 2) Also, Israel represents the northern ten tribes. 3) And Israel represents the nation-state of Israel today.

1) These twelve and/or thirteen tribes exist today, literally. Because, two are in Judah, and ten are lost.
2) Israel represents the northern ten tribes today.
3) Israel is the nation-state of Israel today, but having only Judah and Ben.
Click to expand...
The 144,000 are the elephant in the room.

What the replacement theology adherents are trying to prove is that ;
1) the 144,000 are not 144,000
2) the tribes that make up the 144,000 are not tribes, and their number is a mistake of God.
 
Psalm1 said:
The 144,000 are the elephant in the room.

What the replacement theology adherents are trying to prove is that ;
1) the 144,000 are not 144,000
2) the tribes that make up the 144,000 are not tribes, and their number is a mistake of God.
Click to expand...

That is so funny.

ChristRoseFromTheDead, you are better than this kind of stuff. Return to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
1) The 144,000 are 144,000 servants of God.
2) The tribes that make up the 144,000 are twelve tribes in Israel.
3) There are no mistakes in the wording of the text (Rev. 7:4-8).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Psalm1
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14
 
  • Like
Reactions: Psalm1
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14
Click to expand...

Okay. The natural man, the animal, can not discern the things of Jesus Christ. Because the natural man does not care about anything but those things that satisifys his desires. The desires of the flesh, like food, sex, etc.
Whereas the man following after God's own heart seeks after the things of the spirit. Like, eternal life, recognising that Jesus Christ has paid for his sins, etc.
So we must conquer the natural man and submit to the Savior. What else is new? Oh. How about discounting scripture? Really?
ChristRoseFromTheDead, you are better than this. Whose doctrine has taken you down this strange path?
 
LTL said:
Okay. The natural man, the animal, can not discern the things of Jesus Christ. Because the natural man does not care about anything but those things that satisifys his desires. The desires of the flesh, like food, sex, etc.
Whereas the man following after God's own heart seeks after the things of the spirit. Like, eternal life, recognising that Jesus Christ has paid for his sins, etc.
So we must conquer the natural man and submit to the Savior. What else is new? Oh. How about discounting scripture? Really?
ChristRoseFromTheDead, you are better than this. Whose doctrine has taken you down this strange path?
Click to expand...

Many think they are following the spirit of God when actually they are following the inclinations of their soul. Those who think the spiritual things of God are fulfilled in natural types are soulish and cannot see the spiritual realities that those shadows point to. Thinking they see, they become blind and scripture becomes chains that bind them.

But the soulish (ψυχικός) man doesn't receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. Neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14​
​
G5591 ψυχικός psuchikos (psï-chiy-kos') adj.
1. (properly) soulish, pertaining to the soul.
2. that which is motivated and controlled through the soul.
3. (by implication) worldy, focused on the natural senses, the world, and internal motivations (various instincts, needs, and wants).
4. (by extension) natural, sensual (as directly opposed to spiritual).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Psalm1
LTL said:
That is so funny.

ChristRoseFromTheDead, you are better than this kind of stuff. Return to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
1) The 144,000 are 144,000 servants of God.
2) The tribes that make up the 144,000 are twelve tribes in Israel.
3) There are no mistakes in the wording of the text (Rev. 7:4-8).
Click to expand...
Amen .
I agree.
They are what the Bible says they are.
We simply can not add spiritual non applicable components to it.

Glad you can see that
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Many think they are following the spirit of God when actually they are following the inclinations of their soul. Those who think the spiritual things of God are fulfilled in natural types are soulish and cannot see the spiritual realities that those shadows point to. Thinking they see, they become blind and scripture becomes chains that bind them.

But the soulish (ψυχικός) man doesn't receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. Neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14​
​
G5591 ψυχικός psuchikos (psï-chiy-kos') adj.
1. (properly) soulish, pertaining to the soul.
2. that which is motivated and controlled through the soul.
3. (by implication) worldy, focused on the natural senses, the world, and internal motivations (various instincts, needs, and wants).
4. (by extension) natural, sensual (as directly opposed to spiritual).
Click to expand...

So, you are saying that Rev. 7:4-8 refers to individuals who are not worldly. Okay. And, those individuals are spiritually inclined.
However, that does not mean that the text is not physical. Nor does it mean that the individuals are not physical. They are real people like you and I, as stated in Rev. 14:1. In that verse, Christ is real, and so are his 144,000 servants who stand with him.

I understand your research, but at some point the window of revelation will open a little wider. Come on. Move further into the light. Do not stagnate on less important interpretations. There are thousands of such interpretations, and they are like reinventing the wheel. The foundation of the gospel is not dividing these fine details so that we all can go our own ways, but to find that very fine line that Jesus himself walked. Where 144,000 means literally 144,000. And they are twelve thousand from each tribe means that very thing.

Just because your research finds some obscure pathway does not make it correct. What makes it correct is the application of that research to the whole. And your whole is finding that the tribe of Levi is not literally a tribe. And that is your mistake in the analysis.
 
LTL said:
And your whole is finding that the tribe of Levi is not literally a tribe
Click to expand...

I've never said that. I've always said it was not one of the 12 tribes, which I had to later qualify as true from Moses to Christ (because the Masoretic text uses the word tribe where the LXX uses the word sons in Genesis 48, which was creating a stumbling block for someone.)
 
LTL said:
So, you are saying that Rev. 7:4-8 refers to individuals who are not worldly. Okay. And, those individuals are spiritually inclined.
However, that does not mean that the text is not physical. Nor does it mean that the individuals are not physical. They are real people like you and I, as stated in Rev. 14:1. In that verse, Christ is real, and so are his 144,000 servants who stand with him.

I understand your research, but at some point the window of revelation will open a little wider. Come on. Move further into the light. Do not stagnate on less important interpretations. There are thousands of such interpretations, and they are like reinventing the wheel. The foundation of the gospel is not dividing these fine details so that we all can go our own ways, but to find that very fine line that Jesus himself walked. Where 144,000 means literally 144,000. And they are twelve thousand from each tribe means that very thing.

Just because your research finds some obscure pathway does not make it correct. What makes it correct is the application of that research to the whole. And your whole is finding that the tribe of Levi is not literally a tribe. And that is your mistake in the analysis.
Click to expand...
The 144,000.
The impossible hurdle to the replacement theology.

They ABSOLUTELY NEED IT TO GO AWAY.

The next plan is to ascribe anything handy to it to CHANGE it.

I get a massive belly laugh at the "interpretations".

But their job at hand is to change the bible.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Everything is spiritual now. The 12 tribes now no longer mean what they meant then.
Click to expand...
What numbers are still in play?
666 ?
24 elders?
12 apostles on the gates?
7 letters ?
10 days ?
2 witnesses?
42 months?
12 tribes ?
144,000 ?
7 seals ?
7 vials?
7 trumpets ?

If we whack one, do we whack them all ?
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I've never said that. I've always said it was not one of the 12 tribes, which I had to later qualify as true from Moses to Christ (because the Masoretic text uses the word tribe where the LXX uses the word sons in Genesis 48, which was creating a stumbling block for someone.)
Click to expand...

Okay. So the issue is the reading of scripture. Why are you not going by the spirit? You can develop that skill, you know. Come and stay in the KJV. It is a great text. If I could bless you with that ability, I would do just that. But I do not have that power. To bestow a skill set that I myself work to develop. However, it is there if we can grasp it. Move away from complicated things and search the scriptures by the spirit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back