Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?

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Dino246 said:
Firstly, where is that in Scripture?
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I have to show you a verse to prove a miracle must be real to be scripturally doctrinal? Really?

Dino246 said:
Secondly, “real” is a matter of your personal belief.
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I doubt you even believe this yourself. Reality is a matter of personal belief???

Dino246 said:
Given your general resistance to the possibility of spiritual gifts today, I suggest that you would not believe anything you didn’t personally witness, and even then you would find some reason to dismiss it.
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I most certainly do believe in the possibility of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit happening today as they did in the 1st century. I just do not see the prima facie that should be available to be witnessed as a result of their existence.

As a mature Christian I do not accept claims as evidence.

And neither should you.
 
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Dino246 said:
You win the prize for dumbest claim of the day.

"God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will." Hebrews 2:4.

So, if you don't "need a verse" to believe the verse that tells you this, how did you come by this belief?

smh...
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There are many things that I believe to be true with or without a bible verse.

I believed that the universe was designed by a higher mind before even studying Genesis.

And I certainly don't need a verse to convince me that the Holy Spirit can do as He wishes...do you?
 
Dino246 said:
You win the prize for dumbest claim of the day.

"God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will." Hebrews 2:4.

So, if you don't "need a verse" to believe the verse that tells you this, how did you come by this belief?

smh...
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It's a little early in the day to be giving such a prestigious award away.
 
Lamar said:
The Mormon Church recently posted that Marisol Pedraza Espinosa, a 26 year old resident of Tizayuca, Mexico was healed of Ovarian Cancer by the laying on of hands of the Mormon missionary Sidney Suderio. Look it up. What is different about this claim vs. yours?
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What is the difference between the Mormon claim and the claims of the New Testament?

So lets talk about Biblical doctrine. I do believe that the Spirit gives to whom It wills. Unlike you, I do not need a verse to accept this truth.
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So are you changing your position then? And are you saying scripture had nothing to do with your beliefs? What is the meaning of the last sentence?

It is you who is being "dumb and presumptuous" to consider claims of the miraculous as evidence of the miraculous.
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It is dumb and presumptuous to assume all the claims we are discussing do not resemble those in the scriptures without examining the claims.
 
presidente said:
What is the difference between the Mormon claim and the claims of the New Testament?
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Just answer the question.

presidente said:
So are you changing your position then? And are you saying scripture had nothing to do with your beliefs? What is the meaning of the last sentence?
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I have always believed God is sovereign before I even studied the Bible. I do not need a biblical discourse or a single verse to accept this axiom. Is this over your head?
presidente said:
It is dumb and presumptuous to assume all the claims we are discussing do not resemble those in the scriptures without examining the claims.
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It is upon the claimant to provide the evidence of their claim, if no evidence is provided it simply stays a claim.
 
Lamar said:
Just answer the question.
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People with false doctrine can claim to heal. There can be false claims. There can be true claims. Some people will come to Jesus on 'that day' claiming to have healed in His name? Would they dare to just lie? God might also answer the prayer of an atheist, an unbeliever, a seeker, someone who hasn't put his faith in Christ yet if He so chooses. Cornelius hadn't even heard the gospel yet but his prayers and alms had come up as a memorial before God.

Mormons teach a different concept of God.

What is foolish is claiming that claims, in general, as if all claims, of miracles do not match up to the New Testament style miracles when one has not even examined the claims. That is a foolish blanket statement.

I have always believed God is sovereign before I even studied the Bible. I do not need a biblical discourse or a single verse to accept this axiom. Is this over your head?
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A single verse is a part of the sum total. Why not just humbly backtrack and clarify rather than being smug about it?

It is upon the claimant to provide the evidence of their claim, if no evidence is provided it simply stays a claim.
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You are the one making the claim here. The burden of proof is on you to prove that all claims of miracles are not of the sort seen in the New Testament. That was the line of argument that I responded to. Now either admit your claim was foolish or produce evidence.
 
Lamar said:
I have to show you a verse to prove a miracle must be real to be scripturally doctrinal? Really?
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Here is your claim: "The proper doctrine on physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is simple, it must be real". Where is that doctrine in Scripture? Where in Scripture does it state (substantially) that "the proper doctrine on physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit is that it must be real".

Answer: Nowhere! You made up that "proper doctrine" out of your own head. It's a waste of energy stating it.

Lamar said:
I doubt you even believe this yourself. Reality is a matter of personal belief???
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You're on a roll! One moment you make an inanely obvious statement, and the next you make an inanely ridiculous assumption. Did anything I wrote imply that I was talking about "reality"? No! The subject is physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Lamar said:
I most certainly do believe in the possibility of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit happening today as they did in the 1st century. I just do not see the prima facie that should be available to be witnessed as a result of their existence.
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"Should be available"? Should the people in Ephesus accept as genuine the operation of the Holy Spirit when it occurred in Corinth? Did the council in Jerusalem accept as genuine the claim that gentiles spoke in tongues?

The answer is Yes. While we should not be gullible, we also should not reject claims of the supernatural just because we didn't happen to witness them ourselves.

Lamar said:
As a mature Christian I do not accept claims as evidence.

And neither should you.
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Fine, don't believe. You're free on that. However, your rejection of the claims of others as evidence does not in any way diminish the reality of the things we have witnessed or even personally experienced.
 
Lamar said:
There are many things that I believe to be true with or without a bible verse.

I believed that the universe was designed by a higher mind before even studying Genesis.

And I certainly don't need a verse to convince me that the Holy Spirit can do as He wishes...do you?
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Since I read all of Scripture before starting to examine various theological questions, I was never in a position to be convinced of something "outside of Scripture".
 
If you mean the supernatural miraculous gifts of the Spirit that the first century church had, then no, they aren’t available today.
 
Pfft..on that day. That day is when as its written Christ comes down sets foot on the earth then gathers the nations that just came out of the great tribulation. Are you there? He is judging you sheep and goats? What about Ma and Pa and bro and sis that died are in heaven.. what they get pulled down to be judged? Or did they never make it to have and were are just in the earth still dead or sleeping? Oh how did you make it past not worshiping the beast and not taking its mark and still alive when its written all will worship or die all will take the mark or die?

Do we really read what He said there? "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Did we read this? "Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" Did we read this?

OK read way before and after that verse did He say or even hint those "prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles were not of Him? Hello? Do you know that name? Do you know who that name belongs to and the power in that name? You think what it works sometimes? He said I never knew you. They were never saved. To give glory to Satan is shocking to me. Well its not GOD you give glory to but Satan.. Satan cannot heal.. cannot cast out Satan.. or his kingdom will fall.. Christ told us this. There is no fake blind person walking around.

Ever have God heal you and then you doubted what happened? How odd it came back. But we don't blame our selfs no no we blame GOD.. God took it back...God didn't want to heal me. You have great faith you came move MTN. Hmm we need to get around that huh.. ooh I know its not real MTN no no its just things in our lives.. yeah yeah that's what Jesus really meant huh.. right right? <--doubt. He never said that man did. Some do not walk by faith but sight. You don't believe Isa 53 1st Peter 2:24. Lets see your saved and something you did to your self.. sick or something but you know its because of something you did and now wonder.. will He touch me.. heal me?

Well is it not written any sick among you call on the elders of the Church? " Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

So do you believe or not. There is no verse that says the gifts have stopped. We all read org text "but when the perfect comes..." Lets see what my book says.. org text..big book "when but may come the perfect then the in part shall be done away". Something I stopped many years ago.. I can break down each word for you but.. you read it you ask Him. We need to stop telling His people or Children and the world "what He really said..what He really meant was".

I read this stuff and.. NF Rapper song Oh lord....GoD "Becomes real to us but only when we're dyin' in bed When you're healthy, it's like we don't really care for Him". I am not here to preach to teach nor defend. I don't care for those that go after any group simply because they do not believe like you personally believe.

Faith is knowing what God said is real..its more real then anything we can see. Faith is the substance of things hopped for the evidence of things not seen. Hello? Not seen. Faith is reading those promises knowing they are for us and not waiting till "God for bid" something bad happens and then you try to have faith. Sorry it does not work like that. Yet He then in so many times helps us anyway..thank you Father. Shall I tell you all I have seen and heard just by GOD? Its amazing yet...its just experiences that cannot out weight His word. I have always far back as I can remember.. I just read .. His word...they just stuck out.. you know what I mean.. I then just believed.

Peter and John at the gate.. after all that happened went back to there own. Not going to hang around those that doubt do not believe. Christ even made sure those people left many times. I am not like most.. I live in this life like you I slip and fall like you.. I get up dust off (repent) lol I can still hear her when I was 15 in this bible study (64 now) "danny repent means turn over a new leaf.. you stop doing that sin) haha praise GOD
 
Blue155 said:
What verses? Acts 1:8?
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1) The foretelling; Luke 24:49 " And, behold, I send the promise of the Father UPON you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." 2) As you know Acts 1:8 " But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost (Spirit) is come UPON YOU: and you shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." The Holy Ghost (Spirit) came UPON them in Acts 2: 1-4, as " cloven tongues like as of fire, and it(cloven tongues) sat UPON each of them." Fulfillment 3) Acts 19:1-6 " And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples ( already believers ). He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you believed? (well, have YOU?) And they said unto Him, we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost ( Spirit). And he said unto them, unto what were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after Him, that is on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost (Spirit) CAME ON THEM; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." These weren't Apostles, but unnamed believers. There are more examples but " This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED." 2 Corinthians 13:1
 
bytheblood said:
1) The foretelling; Luke 24:49 " And, behold, I send the promise of the Father UPON you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." 2) As you know Acts 1:8 " But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost (Spirit) is come UPON YOU: and you shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." The Holy Ghost (Spirit) came UPON them in Acts 2: 1-4, as " cloven tongues like as of fire, and it(cloven tongues) sat UPON each of them." Fulfillment 3) Acts 19:1-6 " And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples ( already believers ). He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you believed? (well, have YOU?) And they said unto Him, we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost ( Spirit). And he said unto them, unto what were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after Him, that is on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost (Spirit) CAME ON THEM; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." These weren't Apostles, but unnamed believers. There are more examples but " This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED." 2 Corinthians 13:1
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I believe in every one of those verses. It’s not a matter of believing them to be true, it’s simply a matter of having different beliefs about them. Good day.
 
ResidentAlien said:
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' " Matthew 7:21-23
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Blue155 said:
I believe in every one of those verses. It’s not a matter of believing them to be true, it’s simply a matter of having different beliefs about them. Good day.
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Am I understanding correctly that you believe that only the Apostles, who along with the 108 in the upper room of Acts 1, all of whom the Spirit came upon, operated in the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12? Paul wasn't in that upper room, was he? Just curious, but what is your belief in the scriptures I quoted. What is your interpretation of them?
 
bytheblood said:
Am I understanding correctly that you believe that only the Apostles, who along with the 108 in the upper room of Acts 1, all of whom the Spirit came upon, operated in the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12? Paul wasn't in that upper room, was he? Just curious, but what is your belief in the scriptures I quoted. What is your interpretation of them?
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I appreciate your questions, but I don’t feel like answering them at this moment in time.
 
bytheblood said:
Am I understanding correctly that you believe that only the Apostles, who along with the 108 in the upper room of Acts 1, all of whom the Spirit came upon, operated in the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12? Paul wasn't in that upper room, was he? Just curious, but what is your belief in the scriptures I quoted. What is your interpretation of them?
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The point of my post is that unbelievers, as well as those who say they are believers, are both susceptible to falling into delusion. The people Jesus was addressing are those who thought they were in good with Him, but obviously they were deceived.
 
Cameron143 said:
It's a little early in the day to be giving such a prestigious award away.
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well this was quite a clever response so unfortunately you wont be winning the prize today But maybe tomorrow if you break the covenant of the jaw. But you will have to get up earlier than me

Cuz intend to beat you to it 😂
 
Lamar said:
Your immature nature and emotional state are on full display.

I suggest you stop and collect your thoughts. You have no Biblical answer to why modern day "miracles" do not match that of the 1st Century.

Your defense is emotional and not biblical.
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bytheblood said:
You're proving my point, the signs and wonders were and are for unbelievers. People believed not only because of what He said but also because He did the works of the Father. Some unbelievers needed them then, and still need them today, conformation of the Word we preach, through signs and wonders. Again I say, if Jesus and the early believers needed the Word to be confirmed with signs and wonders, what better does the church have today? If I would minister to someone who is an unbeliever and has a sickness and I'm preaching or teaching them that Jesus heals today ( He is the same yesterday, today and forever ), and I lay hands on them while praying fervently and effectually, and Jesus heals them, the odds of them believing what I'm preaching grow exponentially.
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Do you ask for prayer for healing? If someone asked for prayer for their child's healing and I said, " No. I want her to say sick, so that she and you will learn some valuable spiritual lessons from the experience, would you judge me as gracious or as a monster?
 
ResidentAlien said:
The point of my post is that unbelievers, as well as those who say they are believers, are both susceptible to falling into delusion. The people Jesus was addressing are those who thought they were in good with Him, but obviously they were deceived.
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I was addressing Blue, not you.
 
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