The call of the Father, was He handcuffed?

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Watchman22

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I'm always pondering this. Could the Father call out anyone, anywhere He desires?

Or was He and is He handcuffed by the understanding that whoever He calls out, must have access to some knowledge of Christ?

Words like obedience to Gods word, and believing in God's word, make God's word the object of Faith, rather than God Himself.

The Vines Greek dictionary defines saving Faith and faithing as"a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

With that being the correct response to the call of the Father, IMU, the Father could have called out anyone at any time and any where. No handcuffs!

I'm reminded of Paul, when he went to Greece. He came to them in the name of the unknown God that the Greeks displayed, in case they were wrong about all the other idols.

Any comments?
 
Watchman22 said:
The Vines Greek dictionary defines saving Faith and faithing as"a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "
Click to expand...


I don't think the verse examples used in items 2 and 3 indicate or, even suggest, personal surrender to him, or conduct inspired by such surrender

Faith Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words

"The main elements in "faith" in its relation to the invisible God, as distinct from "faith" in man, are especially brought out in the use of this noun and the corresponding verb, pisteuo; they are (1) a firm conviction, producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation or truth, e.g., 2 Thessalonians 2:11,12; (2) a personal surrender to Him, John 1:12;

But as many as received him, he gave to them authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into his name; John 1:12​

(3) a conduct inspired by such surrender, 2 Corinthians 5:7 . Prominence is given to one or other of these elements according to the context. All this stands in contrast to belief in its purely natural exercise, which consists of an opinion held in good "faith" without necessary reference to its proof. The object of Abraham's "faith" was not God's promise (that was the occasion of its exercise); his "faith" rested on God Himself,

For we walk by faith, not by sight. 2 Corinthians 5:7​


Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/eng/ved/f/faith.html
 
Watchman22 said:
Words like obedience to Gods word, and believing in God's word, make God's word the object of Faith, rather than God Himself.
Click to expand...

How about obedience to God and believing in Jesus Christ and doing what He says as has been pointed out to you elsewhere? Why do you say things like this and ignore what you're shown from Scripture?

Why don't you interact with what I've said a few times on another thread and what @ChristRoseFromTheDead just elaborated for you just above?

Why do you share this faithing concept with some person on a website who looks to worship paganism? Where are you getting this stuff?
 
Watchman22 said:
I'm always pondering this. Could the Father call out anyone, anywhere He desires?

Or was He and is He handcuffed by the understanding that whoever He calls out, must have access to some knowledge of Christ?

Words like obedience to Gods word, and believing in God's word, make God's word the object of Faith, rather than God Himself.

The Vines Greek dictionary defines saving Faith and faithing as"a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

With that being the correct response to the call of the Father, IMU, the Father could have called out anyone at any time and any where. No handcuffs!

I'm reminded of Paul, when he went to Greece. He came to them in the name of the unknown God that the Greeks displayed, in case they were wrong about all the other idols.

Any comments?
Click to expand...
He is the Creator, so He has the right to interact with His creation as He sees fit, any time, and any where.

He interacted with Abram, who didn't know Him.

He interacted with Naaman, who didn't know Him.

He interacted with Cyrus, who didn't know Him.

He interacted with Lydia, who didn't know Him.

There are others, whose names aren't coming to mind at this time. :)
 
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Dino246 said:
He is the Creator, so He has the right to interact with His creation as He sees fit, any time, and any where.

He interacted with Abram, who didn't know Him.

He interacted with Naaman, who didn't know Him.

He interacted with Cyrus, who didn't know Him.

He interacted with Lydia, who didn't know Him.

There are others, whose names aren't coming to mind at this time. :)
Click to expand...

And how many are there we don't know about.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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I see "calling" as an invitation more than a compulsion. Jesus said that those who were of the truth would hear his voice.
 
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timf said:
I see "calling" as an invitation more than a compulsion. Jesus said that those who were of the truth would hear his voice.
Click to expand...


Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them.

Biblically, we are called out by the Father to be saints.
A small group called out from among a larger group of ones that are not called out. The Greek is specific about that.

Saints aren't perfect, they're called out to be candidates for perfection.

Is "a personal surrender to the caller, and a life inspired by such surrender " a sufficient response to the caller? Or, is the called out one required to have some knowledge of Jesus to respond correctly?
 
Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

It seems like those of Israel were inhibited in their understanding until they made a decision to turn their heart to the Lord. This still sounds volitional. They might be aided (drawn) by the Father afterwards, but it still seems a matter initially of individual choice.
 
timf said:
Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

It seems like those of Israel were inhibited in their understanding until they made a decision to turn their heart to the Lord. This still sounds volitional. They might be aided (drawn) by the Father afterwards, but it still seems a matter initially of individual choice.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't the drawing of God be what initiates the process?
 
One of the reasons I shared these thoughts about the call of the Father is to highlight how "believing "and "obedience" to Gods word isn't the correct response to the call of the Father. Gods word cannot be the object of faith and faithing. It has to be God Himself, the caller. The people of the world did not have access to Gods word like we do today.

What would I "believe " in if Gods word wasn't available? What would I obey if Gods commands weren't known. Sure , there were some who had access. But what about most of the world that didn't, was the Father unable or handcuffed from calling those people?

No, if a correct response to the call of the Father as defined in the Vines Greek dictionary is fulfilled, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," that could be done by anyone, anywhere, at anytime.

The Strongs defines that response, "to be persuaded of, to place confidence in, to trust, reliance upon, committed unto, commit to one's trust, be committed unto." All these things can be done in response to the caller, with no understanding of God at all. Having knowledge of the caller is not a requirement, a correct response is.

This should be another good persuasive nudge in the direction of a correct response to the caller, God the Father.
 
Watchman22 said:
One of the reasons I shared these thoughts about the call of the Father is to highlight how "believing "and "obedience" to Gods word isn't the correct response to the call of the Father. Gods word cannot be the object of faith and faithing. It has to be God Himself, the caller. The people of the world did not have access to Gods word like we do today.
Click to expand...

This really doesn't make any sense. We can't really know who God is without him telling us who he is through his words. Man from the beginning has always had God's words.
 
when the good Lord intervened in my life my first instinct when I became alive through the Holy Spirit, was that there was a God, and I was wrong in my unbelief.
That initial filling of the Holy Spirit, and the surety of the fact that God does exist was so prominent and un parallel with any other “coming of awareness” or belief in something, that it securely remains as one of the very few pinnacles of my faith.
I don’t have faith, I KNOW, and it’s impossible for me to not believe.
I lie not. I was aware and believed in a creator before the informational path of who that creator was to mankind was revealed to me.
The predestination of God, or some universal miracle of chance, but the only religion I was acquainted with was the Bible and the redemptive gospel of Jesus Christ.
The affirmation that he was the creator came almost 6-1/2 years after the initial filling of the Holy Spirit.
I’m sorry if that doesn’t fit with some beliefs, but it is the unwavering truth.
THANK YOU LORD!!!
 
Watchman22 said:
One of the reasons I shared these thoughts about the call of the Father is to highlight how "believing "and "obedience" to Gods word isn't the correct response to the call of the Father.
Click to expand...
Believe He is God and do what He says is pretty much the summary of the entire issue. Anybody speaking against this is a problem.

NKJ Ecc12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. 14 For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.
Watchman22 said:
Gods word cannot be the object of faith and faithing. It has to be God Himself, the caller.
Click to expand...
NKJ John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Creating a conflict between God and His Word is also a problem.
Watchman22 said:
What would I "believe " in if Gods word wasn't available? What would I obey if Gods commands weren't known. Sure , there were some who had access. But what about most of the world that didn't, was the Father unable or handcuffed from calling those people?
Click to expand...
Go to a nice quiet spot, unload all presuppositions, read through Romans1 and tell us why you think any of us think God has any difficulty making Himself known or making His righteous standards known.
 
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Watchman22 said:
I'm always pondering this. Could the Father call out anyone, anywhere He desires?

Or was He and is He handcuffed by the understanding that whoever He calls out, must have access to some knowledge of Christ?

Words like obedience to Gods word, and believing in God's word, make God's word the object of Faith, rather than God Himself.

The Vines Greek dictionary defines saving Faith and faithing as"a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

With that being the correct response to the call of the Father, IMU, the Father could have called out anyone at any time and any where. No handcuffs!

I'm reminded of Paul, when he went to Greece. He came to them in the name of the unknown God that the Greeks displayed, in case they were wrong about all the other idols.

Any comments?
Click to expand...

Makes me think of Paul, JESUS sure had plans for him.

He got his attention and told him what to do and where to go.

On the other side HE told HIS followers what to do when Paul got there.

End result we all need to listen no matter who we are, we all need to OBEY HIM.
 
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sevoldoG said:
when the good Lord intervened in my life my first instinct when I became alive through the Holy Spirit, was that there was a God, and I was wrong in my unbelief.
That initial filling of the Holy Spirit, and the surety of the fact that God does exist was so prominent and un parallel with any other “coming of awareness” or belief in something, that it securely remains as one of the very few pinnacles of my faith.
I don’t have faith, I KNOW, and it’s impossible for me to not believe.
I lie not. I was aware and believed in a creator before the informational path of who that creator was to mankind was revealed to me.
The predestination of God, or some universal miracle of chance, but the only religion I was acquainted with was the Bible and the redemptive gospel of Jesus Christ.
The affirmation that he was the creator came almost 6-1/2 years after the initial filling of the Holy Spirit.
I’m sorry if that doesn’t fit with some beliefs, but it is the unwavering truth.
THANK YOU LORD!!!
Click to expand...

I hope that I'm not giving the impression that God works through Faith and faithing in only one specific way. Every one's journey is unique. But the mandate has to be some form of a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. In Gods ways, that could come to fruition 1000 different ways.
 
Ouch said:
Makes me think of Paul, JESUS sure had plans for him.

He got his attention and told him what to do and where to go.

On the other side HE told HIS followers what to do when Paul got there.

End result we all need to listen no matter who we are, we all need to OBEY HIM.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply Ouch,
 
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