Israel and the present conflict

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This video is not as good as I hoped it would be. There's a video posted in some thread in which he describes a pivotal moment in which he decided to become a Karaite, when a rabbi told him that rabbis' authority is greater than God's authority. @Genez posted it so maybe he can repost it.
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Ok thanks (y), Im at work will try and watch later...
Obviously they still reject Jesus so are not believers of God in the true sense.
Abraham, Moses and all those of faith if they lived at the time of Jesus or even now would have believed in and accepted Jesus and become followers of the Way.

What would you name these followers and believers who had faith in God and His Word/scripture from the Old Testament times. They are part of the Church today! Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth and preached to the spirits in prison and they already have proved by their faith by their actions that they would accept Jesus and even looked forward to His day.
 
Clayman said:
I see true Judaism as the Old testament covenant and law given by God to His people, Jesus is a Judaist in the fullest sense, and you and I are the results of Judaism that fully reveals Gods grace and mercy through the redemption of His Son.

You talked about the false Judaistic teachers in acts 15, whom to my understanding were teaching Circumcism for new Converts and that they should adhere to the law of Moses, which is now wrong for we have a new covenant, but you present it as false Judaism, and when you say Rabbinic Judasim has it roots in gentile beliefs and practices! I cant help but see it as wrong from the fact God gave us the law and the Old Testament, not pagan practices.

Circumcism was from God if your going to say Abraham was a gentile, it was also for all Abrahams descendants, meaning Jesus and Paul would have both been circumcised. I just want to point out that Judaism is from God, and Jesus would have fulfilled all its requirements as our High priest.

Then we also become a part of Judaism, I see us as both as Jews not outwardly but inwardly as we follow God and are His people. And Jesus is the root that nourishes the tree we have been joined into, we are the bricks along with Moses that judaizer, that are built up into the spiritual temple, the heavenly one.

To say Judaism is false is to denounce the tree we have to be enjoined into, its cutting off our access to the Root.

To me, to say you hate Judaism as a religion, is a brush that even paints my Lord and Saviour. Now those that have taken to reading the Talmud and practice some teachings from it, hate away all you like, I agree with you there. its an affront to God; to Judaism; and as you intimated lots of Jews also hate it.


Im not the sharpest tool in the shed, so ill break down what you said into how I interpret what you said, Im not agreeing or disagreeing just trying to ascertain your view, if you dont mind correcting me, ill understand your viewpoint even better

Your saying Jesus will reign as king of Israel in this 1000yrs, I disagree but another time.

Ok, Not just Israel but the whole world
I think im getting mixed thoughts here? I also think Jesus reigns now over believers, and maneuvers the world however he wants in fact God has ruled the earth since creation. I also believe the kingdom of God is not an earthly kingdom but a heavenly kingdom which when we are born again become citizens of.
I hope people where I live have seen the huge change in my life, and see Jesus is ruling in my life and is now my king.
Agreed Jesus rules as our spiritual king now, but to me the blessings and curses in Deut are physical, where as our blessings now are spiritual, I mean Ive seen salt of the earth believers go through some horrific things, while deviants(worse than jews, sic) of the most wicked kind dwell in physical blessings, but we have blessings and peace in Him and know its all in Gods hand, and the judgment is not far away. Well 1000yrs and a little bit ;)
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I will have to be careful not to confuse you with semantics with the way I use the word "Judaism".
I see that we are together in our view of religious practices that originate from the old Gentile tribes, so I'll leave that for now.
The faith of the old Hebrews that are now redeemed in Christ is not something that I am accustomed to calling "Judaism", and with you recognize them as the trunk of the spiritual family tree that Jesus has brought us into.

Circumcision and the law of Moses have their origin in the word of God and their fulfillment in Jesus, yet those who teach them after Jesus has risen deny this fulfillment.
If we are still speaking of "Jewishness" in the highest sense ie defined by faith in God, we would have to say that continuing in these practices is un-Jewish, along with rejection of Christ.
I note that you pointed out that in Acts 15 the Gentile believers were only being asked to follow Mosaic traditions, and their teachers professed faith in Jesus.
Notice How seriously the apostles took the matter though. They traveled to Jerusalem to meet over it, and throughout the books of Romans, Corinthians and Galatians Paul wrote on issues related to that problem.

I think that the modern church has many similar problems, and some of them worse.
In the last chapters of Ezekiel for example, God delights in the predicted work of building the second Temple.
Many professing Christians these days re-use these verses to predict the building of a third temple, which is an abomination to God.
Temples are for sacrifice and Jesus is the final sacrifice, so a third temple would be an insult to Him.

The 1000 year time period in John's vision was only mentioned that one time in the Bible, and I had hoped that you would have guessed from the context of what I wrote that I don't believe it is a literal 1000 years.
There is a belief that Jesus will return to Modern Israel physically to rule the earth in the future, and as far as I know this belief has not been around for a long time.
I would reject that belief and think it has been infused only to raise political support for modern Israel, which I am not convinced is a Christian cause.

I think that the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy are only relevant to the NT in so far as they are about obedience through faith.
The condition of faith still stands for the blessing of Christ, without which we have the curse.
Our burden is light without the law, but the king of Israel will still judge us on our faith.
When I use the name "Israel" in this context I refer to a higher meaning of it.
I hope you already know that modern Israel is not my flag.

I hope I have clarified at least where I stand now on these things.
Respectful disagreement is an art that is often lacking in these conversations,
but when it is done well it is a good thing.
 
Clayman said:
What would you name these followers and believers who had faith in God and His Word/scripture from the Old Testament times. They are part of the Church today!
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My friends just call them the old Testament saints.
They are in Jesus, and they are our family.
Job 19:25-27
 
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