President Trump gives Ukraine to Russia.

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Ukraine has always been messed up. My grandparents escaped when kids for a reason.
Putin is horrible, but zelensky is as well. I trust putin more than zelensky.

Overall usa needs to stay out of it. It's not our war and we shouldn't be involved. Ukraine should have signed a peace treaty with Russia. That's on them.
Did you read post number 3? I don’t think Russia wants peace, i think they want terms of surrender.
 
Sure, except in this case, the antelope is hammering the lion and could beat it given half a chance. Mr Trump wants to hamstring the antelope so it has no chance. It's absurd.
Oh, so you are saying that Australia should support Ukraine with money and arms so that they can defeat Russia?
 
Oh, so you are saying that Australia should support Ukraine with money and arms so that they can defeat Russia?
So far, Australia has given a total of $1.5 billion in aid. That includes Bushmaster vehicles, M1 Abrams tanks, 155 mm howitzers, anti tank and air defence missiles and a bunch of other help. Many other countries have done more. We are sixth on the list of non NATO countries. It's not that much, but our military has been run down for decades. Just like Europe and the UK.
 
So far, Australia has given a total of $1.5 billion in aid. That includes Bushmaster vehicles, M1 Abrams tanks, 155 mm howitzers, anti tank and air defence missiles and a bunch of other help. Many other countries have done more. We are sixth on the list of non NATO countries. It's not that much, but our military has been run down for decades. Just like Europe and the UK.
Right, and the US has given 100x more than that and yet our GDP is not even 15x that of Australia.

America has shown they are more than willing to do their fair share, but this is a European problem and there is no reason for Americans to go fight a war against Russia over Ukraine. If Europe has a reason to do that then fine, we will support them.
 
"We are 6th on the l9st of non NATO countries"??
He is from Australia. The US is number 1 among all countries NATO or otherwise. However, the EU has given more in total than the US.
 
Trump tried to deal with Zalensky. Would have helped him in return for mineral rights. Zelensky wanted to strut around like a baby Putin. What did he think, Trump would be another Biden and keep shoveling money to him?
 
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Right, and the US has given 100x more than that and yet our GDP is not even 15x that of Australia.

America has shown they are more than willing to do their fair share, but this is a European problem and there is no reason for Americans to go fight a war against Russia over Ukraine. If Europe has a reason to do that then fine, we will support them.
No Americans are fighting for Ukraine. Neither should they unless Russia attacks a NATO country. However, America bullied Ukraine into giving up its nukes. Ukraine had the third largest nuclear arsenal. Bill Clinton admitted it was a mistake. America also offered security guarantees to Ukraine, which were obviously useless.

This kind of betrayal is why nations seek nuclear weapons of their own. I would 100% support Australia having its own nukes to balance China's arsenal. I no longer trust America's commitments. We have our own uranium mines and we did have our own nuclear program for some time, in cooperation with Britain. Libya quit its nuclear program and look what happened there.

Much of what America donated to Ukraine is surplus anyway. It has book value and little more. There are large stores of now obsolete weapons. They are still most useful to Ukraine, some more than others. Ukraine has also shown great ingenuity in how they use what they are given. Ukraine is willing to purchase modern weapons. America has much to gain from Ukraine's experience - if it is willing.
 
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Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Justification is the first step, sanctification is the second. Paul is not saying that we are sanctified, he is saying we are justified. If you want to be a priest of God the first step is to be justified, but then you must also be separated unto God. That is sanctification.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

When you come to the Lord you confess your sins and He forgives you your sins. His blood pays the price for your sins so that you can be forgiven before God. That is not a free pass to sin. That does not mean He is saying that it is OK for you to sin, but not for the nations. Jesus Christ is not the minister of sin.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Think of the Jewish religion as the egg shell and the church is the chicken that came out of the egg shell. When they came out of that shell they destroyed the shell. The goal is not to rebuild the Jewish religion as "the church". If you do that you expose yourself that you are a false prophet.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

The law told you what the requirements were for the Messiah. He came, He died on the cross, He paid the ransom with His blood. He fulfilled the requirement of the law. If you have received Jesus' redemption then you are also dead with Him to the flesh, to sin, to the world, and to your self. All the things that kept you from living unto God have died so now you are free to live to God in the resurrection life.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is the point of being born again, Christ, the anointed one, lives in you. He loves you, He gave Himself for you, and He lives in You.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

However, if you don't listen to the Lord in your spirit and heed your spirit you frustrate the grace of God. Living in sin grieves the Holy Spirit, Paul is not talking about that, he is talking about frustrating the grace of God. Each one of us, if we partake of the grace of God we will grow in grace and into our anointing to be a gift to the body. If you don't partake of the grace of God every day and exercise your spirit every day then you will frustrate that process. You will not enter into your anointing nor will you be a gift to the body. As a result you will have the sense that the Holy Spirit is frustrated with you.
 
Trump tried to deal with Zalensky. Would have helped him in return for mineral rights. Zelensky wanted to strut around like a baby Putin. What did he think, Trump would be another Biden and keep shoveling money to him?
What utter rubbish. Do you know the terms of the "deal"? It was effectively handing over all of Ukraine's mineral rights to US interests. No sane politician would allow that. There has been a new deal, as of May 2025. It is much fairer.

Zelensky stupidly thought that America would keep its promises. You know, give up your offensive weapons and nukes, and America will ensure Russia does not attack you. And now Mr Trump seeks to hand over a country that is not his to a megalomaniac.
 
No Americans are fighting for Ukraine.

So we sent them F16s and other sophisticated weaponry and untrained Ukrainians are using these?

Neither should they unless Russia attacks a NATO country.

Good, so we agree on that. If there are any Americans in our military over in Ukraine helping them I take it you will agree they should be brought back to the US?

However, America bullied Ukraine into giving up its nukes. Ukraine had the third largest nuclear arsenal. Bill Clinton admitted it was a mistake. America also offered security guarantees to Ukraine, which were obviously useless.

This kind of betrayal is why nations seek nuclear weapons of their own. I would 100% support Australia having its own nukes to balance China's arsenal. I no longer trust America's commitments. We have our own uranium mines and we did have our own nuclear program for some time, in cooperation with Britain. Libya quit its nuclear program and look what happened there.

Much of what America donated to Ukraine is surplus anyway. It has book value and little more. There are large stores of now obsolete weapons. They are still most useful to Ukraine, some more than others. Ukraine has also shown great ingenuity in how they use what they are given. Ukraine is willing to purchase modern weapons. America has much to gain from Ukraine's experience - if it is willing.

I don't really see anything here that we disagree on. I have not heard of anyone prohibiting Ukraine from buying weapons from the US. Nor do most people have an issue with the US shipping obsolete weapons that we would otherwise get rid of to Ukraine.
 
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So we sent them F16s and other sophisticated weaponry and untrained Ukrainians are using these?



Good, so we agree on that. If there are any Americans in our military over in Ukraine helping them I take it you will agree they should be brought back to the US?



I don't really see anything here that we disagree on. I have not heard of anyone prohibiting Ukraine from buying weapons from the US. Nor do most people have an issue with the US shipping obsolete weapons that we would otherwise get rid of to Ukraine.
America did not send F16s to Ukraine. America is not training Ukraine pilots. All America did was permit other countries to donate their F16s. And why not? Most of the F16s have been replaced by F35s. Not all, because Mr Trump has been so obnoxious that some countries have cancelled their orders.

I do not know if any serving American personnel are in Ukraine. There are some volunteers. It's not like Russia where North Koreans and others are fighting for Russia.
 
What utter rubbish. Do you know the terms of the "deal"? It was effectively handing over all of Ukraine's mineral rights to US interests. No sane politician would allow that. There has been a new deal, as of May 2025. It is much fairer.

Zelensky stupidly thought that America would keep its promises. You know, give up your offensive weapons and nukes, and America will ensure Russia does not attack you. And now Mr Trump seeks to hand over a country that is not his to a megalomaniac.
Zelensky would rather see Ukraine burn than make a deal. He is like I said, a baby Putin dictator. Hate on Trump all you want. He is taking care of the U.S. Maybe Austrailia can send Zelensky a few billion?
 
America did not send F16s to Ukraine. America is not training Ukraine pilots. All America did was permit other countries to donate their F16s. And why not? Most of the F16s have been replaced by F35s. Not all, because Mr Trump has been so obnoxious that some countries have cancelled their orders.

I do not know if any serving American personnel are in Ukraine. There are some volunteers. It's not like Russia where North Koreans and others are fighting for Russia.
It's hard to know what to trust but this is what I got when I asked if the US sent F16s to Ukraine

Yes, the US has approved the transfer of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine. Several NATO allies, including Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, and Belgium, are also donating F-16s to Ukraine. The first F-16s are already being delivered and Ukrainian pilots have begun flying them in operations.

While the US has approved the transfer, the decision to send the jets was made in coordination with allies, and the training of Ukrainian pilots on the F-16s has been ongoing. The transfer process is underway, and Ukraine expects to have operational F-16s this summer.
 
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It's hard to know what to trust but this is what I got when I asked if the US sent F16s to Ukraine

Yes, the US has approved the transfer of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine. Several NATO allies, including Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, and Belgium, are also donating F-16s to Ukraine. The first F-16s are already being delivered and Ukrainian pilots have begun flying them in operations.

While the US has approved the transfer, the decision to send the jets was made in coordination with allies, and the training of Ukrainian pilots on the F-16s has been ongoing. The transfer process is underway, and Ukraine expects to have operational F-16s this summer.
F16's are flying. Ukraine has modified the jets to fire French missiles. That would take years to get approved by most militaries. Nothing like a war to get common sense into the military.