Question on Casting Lots

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Jun 27, 2025
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#1
First let me say I understand and agree with the widespread explanation of why we don’t do it anymore. That Jesus promised when the Holy Spirit came He would lead us in all truth and the other verses in the epistles that teach us to walk in the Spirit that we might know the will of God. I know this and yes it makes perfect sense to me.

My question is: why did Peter even feel the need to cast lots in Acts 1? I know that was still before Pentecost but Peter literally just prophesied and interpreted psalms of David! He was clearly in the Spirit when he did that! So why cast lots?

Second question: the Bible never says ANYTHING about NOT casting lots even after Pentecost. So how did we come to the clear conclusion that we should no longer practice it the way they did in Acts 1? They prayed, they consoled among the other apostles and cast lots. I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea but if the Bible only shows positive examples of it and no where speaks against it then…???
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#2
Do what your faith allows and be happy.

Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. Romans 14:22
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#3
Doesn't seeking Holy Spirit guidance in ALL things preclude casting lots?
Best wishes:)(y):unsure::coffee:
 
Jul 31, 2013
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#4
isn't the casting of lots tantamount to seeking what the Spirit says?

Proverbs 16:33​
The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision [is] from the LORD.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,654
491
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#6
First let me say I understand and agree with the widespread explanation of why we don’t do it anymore. That Jesus promised when the Holy Spirit came He would lead us in all truth and the other verses in the epistles that teach us to walk in the Spirit that we might know the will of God. I know this and yes it makes perfect sense to me.

My question is: why did Peter even feel the need to cast lots in Acts 1? I know that was still before Pentecost but Peter literally just prophesied and interpreted psalms of David! He was clearly in the Spirit when he did that! So why cast lots?

Second question: the Bible never says ANYTHING about NOT casting lots even after Pentecost. So how did we come to the clear conclusion that we should no longer practice it the way they did in Acts 1? They prayed, they consoled among the other apostles and cast lots. I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea but if the Bible only shows positive examples of it and no where speaks against it then…???
They simply took a vote to see who would replace Judas. You see something similar in Paul's epistle to Timothy, wherein Timothy was chosen by a council of elders.

Question - why do you say - you are uncomfortable with this?
 
Oct 19, 2024
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USA-TX
#7
First let me say I understand and agree with the widespread explanation of why we don’t do it anymore. That Jesus promised when the Holy Spirit came He would lead us in all truth and the other verses in the epistles that teach us to walk in the Spirit that we might know the will of God. I know this and yes it makes perfect sense to me.

My question is: why did Peter even feel the need to cast lots in Acts 1? I know that was still before Pentecost but Peter literally just prophesied and interpreted psalms of David! He was clearly in the Spirit when he did that! So why cast lots?

Second question: the Bible never says ANYTHING about NOT casting lots even after Pentecost. So how did we come to the clear conclusion that we should no longer practice it the way they did in Acts 1? They prayed, they consoled among the other apostles and cast lots. I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea but if the Bible only shows positive examples of it and no where speaks against it then…???
Your OP prompted me to think of another application or meaning of casting lots:
Souls may choose to cast their lot with Jesus or with Satan.
Atheists bet Jesus is not Messiah, but Christians/Messianics bet Jesus is Lord.
 
Feb 21, 2025
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Paignton, Devon, UK
#8
Your OP prompted me to think of another application or meaning of casting lots:
Souls may choose to cast their lot with Jesus or with Satan.
Atheists bet Jesus is not Messiah, but Christians/Messianics bet Jesus is Lord.
I hope Christians do more than bet that Jesus is Lord. When somebody places a bet on a horse in a race, they want that horse to win, so that they can make some money, but they don't know for certain that the horse will win.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#9
I hope Christians do more than bet that Jesus is Lord. When somebody places a bet on a horse in a race, they want that horse to win, so that they can make some money, but they don't know for certain that the horse will win.
No one knows anything for certain (IMHO), because everyone has finite and thus fallible knowledge,
which is why we all walk by faith, not by sight/certainty per 2Cor. 5:7.
 
Feb 21, 2025
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Paignton, Devon, UK
#10
No one knows anything for certain (IMHO), because everyone has finite and thus fallible knowledge,
which is why we all walk by faith, not by sight/certainty per 2Cor. 5:7.
Well, I think of what John wrote as the reason for writing his first letter:

“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:13 NKJV)
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#11
Well, I think of what John wrote as the reason for writing his first letter:

“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:13 NKJV)
You will note that 1John 5:13 speaks of knowing (with confidence), but not of certain/infallible knowledge
that would obviate the need for faith and hope--so there is no Pope.
 
Feb 21, 2025
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Paignton, Devon, UK
#12
You will note that 1John 5:13 speaks of knowing (with confidence), but not of certain/infallible knowledge
that would obviate the need for faith and hope--so there is no Pope.
I still maintain that the knowing with confidence that a Christian has of his Saviour and salvation is far more certain than the basis a punter putting his pounds/dollars on a particular horse to win has.
 
Jun 3, 2025
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#13
isn't the casting of lots tantamount to seeking what the Spirit says?

Proverbs 16:33​
The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision [is] from the LORD.
Then it really doesn't
matter what procedure
You use to arrive at the
Conclusion of your decision
Because every decision
is from the LORD.

Predestination?
 
Jun 3, 2025
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#14
I still maintain that the knowing with confidence that a Christian has of his Saviour and salvation is far more certain than the basis a punter putting his pounds/dollars on a particular horse to win has.
You mean like Daniel
and the Lion"s den?

And Abraham
To sacrifice his son Isaac?
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#15
I still maintain that the knowing with confidence that a Christian has of his Saviour and salvation is far more certain than the basis a punter putting his pounds/dollars on a particular horse to win has.
Yes to confidence; No to Popism.
I don't gamble, but here is the closest I come to certainty:

An insight I would like to share is what I call the “Propensity Principle” (PP). The PP points out that until proof is provided in the future at the eschaton, humanity’s existential need and desire for eternal life and ultimate justice (the duo of desirables or DOD) make it logical for truthseekers to have a propensity to hope and believe a God who provides the DOD exists, to determine the most credible revelation of God’s requirement for attaining heaven, and to cooperate with His revealed will.

IOW, it seems logical–given the existential facts of death and imperfect justice–that an unbiased truthseeker would have a propensity to hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining the DOD than NT theism. This PP restates Pascal’s wager in terms of comparison shopping (with all belief systems) instead of gambling.

The PP employs linear logic (rather than circular reasoning) to propose faith in the NT God as the best belief that solves the maze of reality as follows:

1. Current scientific knowledge cannot explain how the universe came to exist by means of natural causes, thus it is possible that the cause of the universe is a supernatural Creator/God.

2. The most creative species is humanity, whose traits also include language, moral conscience and God consciousness (personality), so it is possible that these human traits reflect attributes of a God who created humanity.

3. Existential reality indicates that humans are mortal and life is painful, but when life is happy, one wishes it would continue indefinitely. Thus, it is rational to seek ways to become immortal in a heavenly existence (where there is love and justice for all forever, the DOD).

4. Comparing all possible ways of achieving the DOD, the best or most credible way/hope at this point appears to be the God who resurrected Christ Jesus.

5. When words from God are sought, the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul seem to be the most highly inspired when compared with other scriptures (including the OT), because its concept of one God as the just and all-loving Judge (rationale for morality) is spiritually highest or most advanced, and the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is most credible.

6. Thus, it is appropriate or wise to believe in the NT God and to accept Jesus as God’s Messiah.

Atheists deny the validity of this argument, but in the absence of disproof, I find the decision to reject the biblical gospel of salvation from selfishness, spiritual death, and a miserable destiny to be illogical or foolish. This is why all truthseekers should agree on NT theism now rather than assume atheism is an unlucky guess.

As someone has said, heaven is like a vision of water in the desert: the scoffer will surely die where he/she is, while the believer will live if right. Again, however, this analogy should be viewed in terms of comparison shopping and logic rather than of blind faith and fear. True love for God is evoked by His love for humanity and is a reflection of His loving Holy Spirit (1JN 4:7-12); it cannot be coerced, although it can be imitated (2CR 11:14 calls Satan an “angel of light”). Heaven may not be a mirage!

A biblical illustration of the PP is the OT story about Naaman being told to bathe in the dirty Jordan River to cure his leprosy (2KG 5:10-14). The Naaman Example teaches us not to let sinful pride prevent us from being cured of spiritual sickness by methods we think are silly or do not fully understand.

Some people might not understand why God ordained Messiah to atone for humanity’s sins, so they think the Gospel seems foolish or silly (cf. 1CR 1:18-25). However, they accept physical reality without necessarily understanding very well how it works (cf. JN 3:8), and Jesus said that those who seek salvation will find it, which indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to understand how to be saved (MT 7:7, cf. 1TM 2:3-4), which might be called “seeking grace”.

Those who reject the PP (and Naaman Example) apparently employ a logical fallacy that might be called non praecedere (comparable to non sequitur), making an unwarranted conclusion which precedes unknown facts, namely the cause for the universe “banging bigly”. Atheists assume a natural cause will be discovered, but their assumption is premature, not proved and thus inappropriate.
 
Feb 21, 2025
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Paignton, Devon, UK
#16
You mean like Daniel
and the Lion"s den?

Even the Babylonian king who put him there said he knew that Daniel's God was able to save him. We don't read in Daniel anything about Daniel doubting God.

And Abraham
To sacrifice his son Isaac?
What did Abraham say to his servants before going up Mount Moriah with Isaac?:

“And Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”” (Ge 22:5 NKJV)
 
Feb 21, 2025
171
84
28
Paignton, Devon, UK
#17
Yes to confidence; No to Popism.
I agree.


I don't gamble, but here is the closest I come to certainty:

An insight I would like to share is what I call the “Propensity Principle” (PP). The PP points out that until proof is provided in the future at the eschaton, humanity’s existential need and desire for eternal life and ultimate justice (the duo of desirables or DOD) make it logical for truthseekers to have a propensity to hope and believe a God who provides the DOD exists, to determine the most credible revelation of God’s requirement for attaining heaven, and to cooperate with His revealed will.
 
Jun 3, 2025
140
11
18
#18
What did Abraham say to his servants before going up Mount Moriah with Isaac?:

“And Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.”” (Ge 22:5 NKJV)
Here you are again
Leaning to your own
understanding.

I use to have
that bad habit
It was extremely
hard for me to break.

But it was well worth it.
Take it from me
That one bad habit
Is keeping you
From going where you
want to go
With the Lord.
 
Feb 21, 2025
171
84
28
Paignton, Devon, UK
#19
Here you are again
Leaning to your own
understanding.

I use to have
that bad habit
It was extremely
hard for me to break.

But it was well worth it.
Take it from me
That one bad habit
Is keeping you
From going where you
want to go
With the Lord.
How is that leaning on my own understanding? I simply quoted Scripture to show that Daniel and Abraham didn't doubt. Incidentally, as far as Abraham is concerned, we have it confirmed in Hebrews:

“By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son], of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.” (Heb 11:17-19 NKJV)
 
Jul 31, 2013
38,899
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#20
No one knows anything for certain (IMHO), because everyone has finite and thus fallible knowledge,
which is why we all walk by faith, not by sight/certainty per 2Cor. 5:7.
things that The Infinite One told us, we can take as 100% fully known to be sure.