At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

James 2:14 clearly states says/claims (key word) to have faith but has no works (to evidence that claim) so it is equal to an empty profession of faith.

James does not teach that we are saved "by" works as you believe. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

You have a dead faith producing works in order to become a living faith which would be like saying that a dead tree produces fruit in order to become a living tree. You have the cart before the horse.

We are made alive together with Christ FIRST by grace through faith (not works) then created in Christ Jesus unto good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* (Romans 3:24-28)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Here is the verse:

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?"

There is no mention of the faith not being sincere or in the proper Person but being void of works.

The demons believe both sincerely and correctly that Jesus is Lord (Matthew 8:28-29) but do not have the obedience of works that are needed.

Your "empty profession of faith" is but an attempt to muddy up the water.

Again, anyone can do what you are doing, shoehorning a definitive into a verse.

You may think you are a biblical scholar but what you are doing is the grammar of a child.

With your reasoning nothing in the bible is safe.

If faith alone regeneration theology is correct why must its followers insist on this line of reasoning?

That's dumb....

But it's effective against the insecure babe in Christ, or someone who never matures spiritually.
Go with it. You might make some money preaching such tripe to spiritual morons.


Note..

If anyone loses their salvation (as you claimed).
It would be Jesus (not the believer) failing to fulfill the Father's will!

Go back to sleep now....

Yes I was never meaning to say it’s wrong for someone to take interest and feel or even actually get some benefit . Truth be told in my late twenties I did a real deep study n the Greek and not such a deep dive on the Hebrew . Because I thought “ it will change some of this if I figure out the original languages

i spent about three years on the study and in the end really it turned out no different from the kjv or niv, ( I’m of course only speaking from my experience not everyone else’s ) but of course I found a place or three where I thought “ maybe seeing this langiage and tbat “ I would say this thing differently than the translator did “ bit honestly. Never found anything that changed what’s being said in the translated versions into English

In short I found it interesting and good brain excercise but unltimately seeking in prayer and study of the ones translated into my language by professional translators have been what I’ve learned from . Sometimes even today I’ll run into something that doesn’t “ seem “ right to me so I’ll go get my Greek books but in the end it’s always right again there might be things I would word differently

but I’m also aware of this part

I studied Greek for aroind two and a half or three years to be more accurate , and I felt like okay I sort of got a feel for this I think I can if I use my books understsnd slowly and try to double check everything .

But it sort of hit me that the kjv for instance took 54 professional world renown translators revising and diligently comparing tbier works over seven years double and triple checking one a others works making reviseme ts and checking and comparing things even at times needing to work by consensus to get the text as close as possible to the original version

then I thought “ wow I could study Greek the rest of my life and I’m not going to ever have a better argument than 54 professionals who worked for seven years on it . So aboit that time or a little after I pretty much stored my books and just began asking God the author of his word to teach me as I studied it

again I wasn’t trying to disparage anyone for lewrning Greek or Hebrew but it isnt necassary was my point god said his word would be preached in e wry nation to accomplish this he caused his word to be tranlsted into those languages fornus alrewdy so we can hear it and believe him regardless of our language barriers

I prefer the kjv or original niv but most any translation of the bi ke is going to speak the same message of Jesus coming to save us

There is confusion there!

Our initial faith in Jesus saved us from the Lake of Fire.
At that point in time you are saved and sealed by God.

Romans 10:17 tells us....



But? If we want to be like a typical Christian goof-ball?
After salvation, we will follow doctrines that our emotions dictate to distort and override sound doctrine.
Therefore? We will not be saved.... from evil!
Not saved from the evil that walks besides us every day in our life.,

Faith is what you have chosen to believe.
It is either based upon sound doctrine.
Or, based upon human viewpoint (not genuine faith from God's word).

Therefore...
Faith without works is faith that was shoved into a box and stored way.
Not able to save you beyond the point of our initial salvation from the Lake of Fire.

God wants you to take faith out of the box, and use faith as a tool to find more and more faith
to overcome each evil that comes against the freedom Christ wants us to have in this lifetime!
That process becomes a series of works of working out our salvation in fear and trembling.

Galatians 5:1 tells us....


Not allowing ourselves to be burdened again to the slavery of conformity to this world requires WORKS!
Works that are based upon an ever-growing faith that keeps on remaining living, and growing, more and more
in KNOWLEDGE of God's sound doctrinal teachings! Works saves us from the tyranny of conformity to this world.


2 Peter 3:18 tells us.....



The reason we have so many goofy Christians today was proclaimed right here in 2 Timothy 4:3!


There are teachers that Christians today reject because they do not want to put up with learning sound doctrine!
They would rather follow the sanctified herd. Herd bound.

So be it.

With Greek word studies? Dictionaries? How? I tried that, too.

You have to have the gift!
I can swing a baseball bat all day long and never hit a home run.
Must have the gift to do so!

One must study to become fluent in speaking that language. Understanding idiom and the meaning of words that were used at the time of writing. That can not be self-taught.

God gives us teachers with gifts who can think in the Greek and Hebrew, and to analyze and explain to us in ways we can understand.

When you are confronted by such ability, it makes one feel stupid to realize how much they can not teach themselves.
They can become arrogant and declare all they need is the Holy Spirit and a Bible... rejecting authority that God decreed
for all of us if we are to mature in Christ.

That is why Jesus said the way to destruction is broad and wide. That many will take that wide way...
But, only a few will find the life He desires us to experience here on earth. Their path is narrow and under pressure.

Here is one such teacher God decreed to be alive on earth.
And? No money is ever asked for his study materials!

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html

What excuse do we have if we really seek to better understand the Hebrew and Greek scriptures?

God provides for all our needs!

“God provides for all our needs!”

exactly.

If one is a teacher? He better find another who can educate him, as he needs to be knowing things.,

Salvation is not one dimensional, as the simple-minded wish it were.

The salvation you can not lose was when you believed in Christ.
You will never go to Hell.

But, you can have hell on earth if you fail to gain knowledge of sound doctrine, and walk in it.
Failing to find sound doctrine to live by?
You will die miserably, and then go to Heaven.

After we are saved from Hell, we need to become saved from the world and its pressures around us as to glorify Christ in the Devil's world.



1 Peter 1:6-9 is the next phase in salvation.

A salvation that you can lose.


Note!

Genuineness of your faith? = sound doctrinal thinking!



No faking it. Real joy. Real peace. Or, no salvation of the soul.
Lost salvation on earth.
A salvation intending to save us from this world's evils by learning and understanding sound doctrine.

And, it's not what we think it is!

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

We are dumb sheep needing a good teacher!
All sheep are dumb. That is why we are called his sheep.
Without a "pastor" we will be lost.

It does not say... we will accept all His provisions.

He will show us at our evaluation how He did provide, and some refused the provision.

Allow me to highlight. "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" What kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works.

If faith was sincere then it would not remain barren of works, which is the point that James is making. This is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. We show our faith by our works. The absence of evidence can be construed as evidence of absence. Why can't you see this?

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Believing that saves involve faith, trust and reliance (and not mere mental assent belief) yet their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have, and only genuine believers do have.

Says/claims to have faith but has no works is an empty profession of faith whether you accept it or not. You need salvation to be by works (at least in part) in order to accommodate your biased church doctrine. You would walk around mountains of grace (Romans 3:24-26; 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9) in order to find water.

Why do you keep trying to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works? (Ephesians 2:8,9) Let the boasting begin.

It does not take a biblical scholar to figure this out. All one needs to do is properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine. (2 Timothy 2:15)

With my reasoning through biblical hermeneutics, everything is safe from a false gospel.

The Bible makes it clear in numerous passages of scripture that salvation is through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 4:4; 10:4; 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6, 9: 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4; Galatians 2:16; 3:6 14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:4, 13 etc..)

Now one does not need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.

I am right there with you, because that was my experience too--and my appreciation for the expertise of translators.
I cited RBT by way of showing appreciation for his teaching, but after awhile I realized that he spent most of the time explaining what the KJV meant in modern English, which is why I decided to simply use the NIV. I also liked the TEV and spent a couple of years trying to memorize passages, but after awhile I realized that my memory is not good enough for such efforts to stick. Thus, I began putting my learning in writing, which is now mostly on a website that I offer to all for a resource.

"says" and "that" does not mean that the faith is not sincere and in the correct object and this is what you are implying.

What you are labeling as a "bare profession of faith" is rather subjective and is not defined in the verse. It is simply called a faith void of works.

Regardless of what the works are, it is the lack of the works that is making the faith dead not the degree of the faith. Whether or not the faith is "bare", "empty" or "mere" it is the lack of obedience (works) that is making the faith dead.

The word used in James is believe and the demons most certainly believe that Jesus is Lord and the Son of God, so I am not sure of what you are asserting here. The difference between saved believers and condemned demons is not belief but obedience.

You would rather die of dehydration then obey and have the remission of sins that comes at water baptism. (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, 1st Peter 3:21)

There is no rejection of grace by believing that water baptism is the moment of the remission of sins.

What’s the link I’ll check it out when o get a chance

“There is no rejection of grace by believing that water baptism is the moment of the remission of sins.”

Amen rather it’s an acknowledgement of the truth and gift and word of God to remit our sins in jesus name who suffered and died for them so that baptism for remission of sins in his name , had meaning and purpose for those who believed.

“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:45-49‬ ‭

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

……Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4, 38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is the gospel of Jesus Christs grace that saves

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned. ……And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I began my walk with the NIV.
I rejected the archaic KJV from the start.

I used to sit in church where the teaching was from the KJV,
wondering to myself why the message could be so far off, and people approving it.
It fit their natural way of seeing things.

I only found out about RBT after being founded in the NIV.
There is still a great need to having meanings of words explained.

For example:

Here is Titus 2:11-13, in the NIV.



The grace of God does not simply teach us to say "no" by telling us what to avoid and deny.
The Greek word is specific. It means to teach by allowing one to be stubborn and stupid
(as we all were at one time), and to get badly hurt by what we were doing wrong.

It's that "hurting" that God has us to go through that teaches us to say, NO to ungodliness!
It's not about lecturing and preaching on what not to do. Which would be teaching us by
hitting us over the head with guilt from legalism.

Titus 2:11-13 is to let believers know that they should not carry guilt for what they used to be.
That it was all a part of God's sanctifying process for our lives.

Yet? Too many preachers thrive on the legalism they promote, by forming a congregation
of masochistic thinking members, being driven by an Alpha sadistic kind of preaching.

No English translation I have seen clarifies that point!

You will not find it indicated in the English translations.

If you have one? Please let me know.

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