Gospel Confusion...

1 Corinthians 2:
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

What are your thoughts on this section?

This is why I very much apply the value that's in systematic study:

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Being made nigh was the mystery that the princes of this world did not foresee as the result of their actions and the fall of Israel. Gentiles no longer had need to join with the commonwealth of Israel to be made nigh unto Christ Jesus because:

Romans 11:11-12
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The restoration of Israel is indeed the high point of God's plans for Israel and the kingdom promised to them, but for Gentiles it is great also, and that the princes would never have crucified the Lord of Glory had they known that the far greater population of the world would have access to salvation apart from the minority (in number) population of Israel, that is a remarkable revelation indeed.

MM

Speaking of what's interesting, there are many Protestants out there who don't believe that baptism washes away sins today, and yet will still demand that Paul preached the same gospel as what Peter preached in Acts 2.

Given that so many routinely fail to think critically and logically through what they claim to be the truth, thus perpetrating gross inconsistencies in their own belief systems and practices, it all shows how little they ever think through their belief system to weed out hypocrisies in their lives.

MM

In Acts Paul preached the kingdom.

Maybe he was way off.

Exactly who is it that believes the Gospel of their Salvation upon spiritually hearing the word of truth Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So lets follow the context and go back to Vs 4, which are some of things they no doubt heard in the Gospel, so those who believed had been according to context in Vs 4 Chosen in the Believed before the foundation of the world, Vs 5 Predestinated unto the adoption of Sons, Vs 6 and very importantly, they had been already accepted in the Beloved:

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This acceptance was premised on the Praise of the Glory of His Grace, nothing in ourselves

Vs 7 They had been redeemed through His Blood and had forgiveness of sins. Now when were they redeemed through His Blood ? It was at the Cross, or the Blood of His Cross, not when they believed in time. Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Thats also forgiveness of sins, there could be no forgiveness, of sins unless Peace was made by the blood of the Cross.

So these are some of the Spiritual blessings they had Vs 3 prior to believing the word of Truth, and these things they heard in the apostolic Preaching of the Gospel. So in context we have those it is that believed the Truth and trusted in Vs 13 and notice also this is called their inheritance, because they were alway heirs of salvation

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit they were sealed by was part of their eternal inheritance

That eternal inheritance is still future. That's not salvation. Once they believed the gospel, they were sealed unto the day of redemption. The day of redemption is yet future. It is the adoption, the redemption of the body. It is when believers are finally conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

Re "I very much apply the value that's in systematic study": Me too, and we are conducting such of EPH in that thread.

Re "Ephesians 2:11-13, 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands": Abram was in this group before he believed, was circumcised and became the patriarch of the Hebrews.

Re "12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world": What Paul says elsewhere indicates the possibility of being saved via creation and conscience (aka general revelation), so to be consistent here he should have said "with less hope of perceiving God as creator of the world--see what I said in Romans 1:20".

Re "13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.": This refers to Gentiles who had the opportunity to learn the Gospel, which were a few thanks to Paul's preaching but which remained very few at least until Christian missionaries made it around the world following the invention of the printing press and Protestant Revolution--as we have noted in the thread regarding the History of Beliefs.

Yes and after they receive that deposit before that day comes …they are taught doctrine like this regarding that inheritance

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is a gift from God for all to choose to believe God or not personally too
It is finished (John 19:30) fro new life to begin in anyone that chooses to believe God and trust God to teach them over anyone else doing it
1 John 2:27 thank you done once for all Hebrews 10:10, yet read that entire Chapter please

The Bible never mentions TWO Gospels only ONE by which, if we believe, ANYONE can be saved. It does not even use the PLURAL form of gospel which it would if there were some another way to be saved for the Jews or Gentiles. Instead, Jesus commanded His disciples:

15to “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. (one message was sent out to ALL creatures.many different 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.…
(Mark 16:15)
I hope you will agree with me that the phrase "every creature" is all inclusive and, as such necessarily includes BOTH Jews AND Gentiles. Jesus said 6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled (Matthew 5:6)
The desire to be cleansed and walk with God is universal. The promise of eternal life is not distributed by race. it is for those who hunger and, while it is not possible for us to be righteous while we are devoid of the, Holy Spirit it is possible for us to be needy and admit it to God.

Paul also said: 16 I am not ashamed of THE gospel, (SINGULAR) because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”…(Romans 1:16)
Is Paul insinuating that there is ANOTHER gospel for Jews which can also make righteous and save but which adds OTHER requirements. Some must have been confused about that but Paul made sure everyone knew that "the righteousness that comes from God comes by faith FROM START TO FINISH. No, again, from start to finish is another all-inclusive statement. From " does not leave out ANYTHING.
Did Jesus sacrifice Himself on two occasions - once for Jews and another time for Gentiles. How could He by his death make the TWO into one whole body if He did that? There is ONE gospel that us THE power of GOD unto EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES

You should quit listening to the Hyperdispensationist-Bullengerites whose message divides the Body of Christ in two and relegates even the words of Christ to some other mini-dispensation.

You present good evidence here for the one Gospel view.

Notice that Colossians 1 says the gospel has come unto you, as it is in all the world, not that it had already permeated every part of the world.

But of course the world hasn't ended.

@John146

Of course but the Holy Spirit is the down payment/earnest of that inheritance because they are heirs. Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Try studying the word earnest and see what it means friend

@homwardbound
False, thats foreign to the context

@homwardbound

I dont think you understand this scripture, for it actually teaches that Christs Death alone saved them He died for, sanctified them unto God, thats Salvation. God made Christ to be unto Gods elect, their sanctification 1 Cor 1:30


30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

All of those are blessings of Salvation from Christs Death

A. Notice that Colossians 1 says THE gospel has come unto you, as it is in all the world, Again he uses the singular form of gospel meaning that there are not more versions than that.

B. In fact, he explicitly says there is ONLY ONE Gospel.
Paul is saying that THE GOSPEL as in a single gospel and not TWO gospels of (i.e., one of Jesus and another of Paul). Paul only recognized one message of salvation and that is the one that is calling sinners to repentance and salvation. Paul goes as far as to say if even HE or anyone else preached another gospel that he should be rejected and cursed

C. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8-9)
There are two basic Greeks words which are translated by our English word "another". Allos (another) is found 160 times in the Greek New Testament and heteros (another) 99 times. "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort" (Vine). "Heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes another of a different sort" (Ibid.).
The apostle goes on to say:
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert[a] the gospel of Christ.

D.. Of these "gospels" Paul says the one which is incompatible is really "not a gospel (at all) so there we do not have two options to choose from. Only of them is true and the other is a false counterfeit gospel. If there were one gospel for Jewish Christians and another optional one for Jewish believers both would be true and equally capable of saving....but this not not so. A legalistic system such as many in Colossia were adopting was not the gospel of Jesus but rather some hybrid mutated message which posited salvation through certain ceremonies and rituals that was neither exactly like traditional Judaeism nor like simple moral living.
Like the prophet said of Israel:
13“For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, and they have dug their own cisterns— broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
(Jeremiah 2:13)
I also believe that many who thought they were restoring the true gospel ended up creating idols of their own imaginations to the point of turning people away from God and the Truth

“We are not to preach the gospel of the kingdom anymore”

Where do you come up with things like this? it’s really hard to hear that people actually think and share this… disheartening to me sincerely

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:17‬ ‭

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34‬ ‭

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; …..But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1, 3-

There’s no other gospel and no other salvation but the gospel they all preached regarding Gods kingdom and the king Jesus Christ that is the gospel of grace and all of them preached it.

“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,( jesus )

and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ( the apostles ) God also bearing them witness, ( gods spirit in them ) both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭

The fallacy in what you're saying here is revealed nicely in what Paul said about his gospel that he preached, which was NOT the same gospel as that of the eleven:

Ephesians 3:1-7
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Where did the eleven ever preach that Gentiles were fellow heirs? When did even Jesus make such a declaration? Jesus called you Gentiles "dogs." Doesn't that offend you Gentiles? It shouldn't because the gospel Jesus preached and that He taught the twelve to preach was not the same as that which was preached by Paul.

So, given that what was given to Paul was not known until revealed to Paul by the Lord after Acts 9, the belief in some hard fast rule for plural mention, or some other specific and absolute declaration, that makes no sense. Who can say the Lord SHOULD have done this or that if something He revealed through a lengthy set of books and chapters that are only gleaned through study, contrast and comparison? Did not Paul say to STUDY to show thyself approved? The word of God is filled with knowledge that must be dredged up through study and prayer that Holy Spirit may reveal to the follower of His word the many, many things not spelled out like a silver platter falling from the sky into one's lap.

So, if I may, what are you saying?



I hope you will agree with me that the phrase "every creature" is all inclusive and, as such necessarily includes BOTH Jews AND Gentiles. Jesus said 6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled (Matthew 5:6)
The desire to be cleansed and walk with God is universal. The promise of eternal life is not distributed by race. it is for those who hunger and, while it is not possible for us to be righteous while we are devoid of the, Holy Spirit it is possible for us to be needy and admit it to God.[/QUOTE]

Jesus was talking to the Jewish eleven, not to Gentiles, and I as a Jew who studies the Greek and Hebrew of scripture and am well acquainted with the historic analogies of Jewish language and culture of those times, Jesus was not telling them to go to anyone but Israel...ALL of Israel, including those scattered abroad. That is the nuance of "every creature." He was NOT telling them to go unto the Gentiles as well, given that He forbade the disciples to go unto Gentiles and even to the Samaritans.

Doing so was reserved for Paul and those whom he appointed as apostles as fellow workers. To disagree with that is to cut out from one's Bible this and quite a number of other relevant verses:

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Paul did not at all include the eleven in this office with his specific singular that limits one's attention to him alone...given that you seem to pay particular attention to plural versus singular in the text.

If he were preaching what the eleven were preaching, then Paul was a liar for anyone to claim he was preaching the same gospel as the eleven:

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul knew what the eleven were preaching, for he persecuted all the Messianic Jews who converted to the gospel taught by the eleven. He clearly stated that his gospel was not taught to him by any man, but by the Lord only. Church tradition teaches otherwise, which renders all those churches that teach the usual trash that defies this and many other written scripture, they are not of Christ, but rather instruments of the devil for deception.

[/QUOTE]Paul also said: 16 I am not ashamed of THE gospel, (SINGULAR) because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”…(Romans 1:16)
Is Paul insinuating that there is ANOTHER gospel for Jews which can also make righteous and save but which adds OTHER requirements. Some must have been confused about that but Paul made sure everyone knew that "the righteousness that comes from God comes by faith FROM START TO FINISH. No, again, from start to finish is another all-inclusive statement. From " does not leave out ANYTHING.
Did Jesus sacrifice Himself on two occasions - once for Jews and another time for Gentiles. How could He by his death make the TWO into one whole body if He did that? There is ONE gospel that us THE power of GOD unto EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES

You should quit listening to the Hyperdispensationist-Bullengerites whose message divides the Body of Christ in two and relegates even the words of Christ to some other mini-dispensation.[/QUOTE]

Trying to force upon a specific text that addresses a particular message in its surroundings at that specific time, and therefore singular, and trying to stretch that out across all of scripture, that's not at all a well rounded practice that any legitimate scholar of scripture would ever foist upon anyone. That is the antics of Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and other cultic groupings out there seeking to mislead their followers and audience of potential proselytes. We as followers of Christ should stand head and shoulders above such. I'm not saying that you're trying to intentionally mislead anyone, but the lack of care in how you present methods for interpretation such as this, its reckless and unsound.

I hope this speaks to you from the word of God, and excites you with the understanding that there's some things you've missed in all this. It excited me by removing blinders from my eyes, put there by a blind indifference on my part for casting aside what "pastors" had taught me for years without my turning a more critical eye to the scriptures in order to see that so many of them were false teachers.

Also, we are ALL dispensationalists. When we sin, I dare say that none of us runs out and starts offering up burnt sacrifices for our sins. Dispensations are clearly addressed, literally, within scripture, and so yammering in the negative about that concept only lessens the weight of one's words.

Blessings to you and yours.

MM

See post #4 and answer, has the end of the world come? Why or why not?

Not sure who said this in MM's post #217 {{"Jesus was talking to the Jewish eleven, not to Gentiles, and I as a Jew who studies the Greek and Hebrew of scripture and am well acquainted with the historic analogies of Jewish language and culture of those times, Jesus was not telling them to go to anyone but Israel...ALL of Israel, including those scattered abroad. That is the nuance of "every creature." He was NOT telling them to go unto the Gentiles as well, given that He forbade the disciples to go unto Gentiles and even to the Samaritans."}} but I would like to point out that although Jesus focused on fulfilling the OT by concentrating on the Jews, after they rejected him as Messiah he gave the Great Commission (Matt. 28:19-20) and commissioned Paul to focus on Gentiles in his ministry (Acts 9:15 & 26:12-18). Paul taught that all Gentile Christians are spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:28-29).

One particular individual in these forums seems to enjoy appeals to the new god of culture called "AI."

I asked that false god this question:

"How did Paul establish the dispensation of grace?"

This was its response:

"Paul established the dispensation of grace through the special revelation he received from Jesus Christ, as described primarily in his epistles—especially in Ephesians, Romans, Galatians, and 1 and 2 Corinthians. Here’s a breakdown of how he introduced and developed this theological concept:

1. What is the "dispensation of grace"?

The term “dispensation” refers to a period or administration of God’s dealings with humanity. The dispensation of grace is often understood (especially in dispensational theology) as the current period in God’s redemptive plan, during which salvation is offered to all people through faith in Jesus Christ alone, apart from the works of the Mosaic Law.

2. Paul’s Special Revelation

Paul claims that he received this message directly from the risen Christ, not from human teaching:



This "mystery" refers to the new revelation that Gentiles and Jews are both part of one body (the Church), and that salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9).

3. Key Doctrines Paul Taught Under the Dispensation of Grace

• Justification by faith (Romans 3–5)
• Salvation apart from the Law (Galatians 2–3)
• The one new man (Church) made up of Jews and Gentiles (Ephesians 2)
• Christ as the Head of the Church, His Body (Colossians 1:18, Ephesians 1:22–23)
• The indwelling of the Holy Spirit for all believers (1 Corinthians 6:19)

4. Contrasted with Previous Dispensations

Paul distinguishes this era of grace from the prior administration under the Law (the Mosaic dispensation), which emphasized obedience to commandments and sacrifices. While the law exposed sin, grace provides the solution through the finished work of Christ (Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:24–25).

5. Why Paul?

Paul refers to himself as the apostle to the Gentiles (Romans 11:13) and was uniquely chosen to unveil this mystery that had been hidden from ages past (Colossians 1:25–27). His ministry was foundational in establishing this new dispensation within the early Church.

Summary

Paul established the dispensation of grace by proclaiming the gospel of grace revealed to him directly by Jesus Christ. Through his writings and missionary work, he explained the shift from Law to grace, revealed the mystery of the Church, and laid down the foundational doctrines for this present age.

If you’d like, I can walk you through how this differs from other theological frameworks, like covenant theology."

MM