A question posited concerning The Great Commission

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Philos

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Mar 31, 2023
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At a recent apologetics conference a question was posited to me concerning the Great Commission. since the conference was not recorded the question that was asked of me I can only paraphrase as I ask the same question to this body.
In regards to the Great Commission; concerning the process of the preparation of Christ followers to be able to adequately share the good news with non- believers and then to make (train and help mature) disciples of new believers who in turn are they themselves capable of discipling others; How does the way that we currently do church accomplish this command? Specifically as I was asked. How the methodology of Sunday worship services, which usually involves singing, announcements, requests for tithes and offerings, special presentations and finally biblical lectures from church leaders who offer their personal interpretation of the chosen scriptures (also sharing their personal experiences that hopefully contribute to the understanding of those scriptures), along with special programs and individual targeted ministries and other events during the week accomplish this commandment given to each of us as Christ followers? His followup question was: What are churches current specific plans To mature new believers as well as current existing believers and how well is the church impacting our secular world?

I will tell you how I responded to this very intelligent young man, I will call him here mike, but more importantly I am posting this to get input from the body of Pastors and church leaders on this forum as to how to address these questions.

I responded by complimenting him on his very intelligent and heartfelt questions. I told him that I did not feel that I could not or should not attempt to respond with an appropriate response to these very deep and soul searching questions in brief time allotted in this Q and A format and that his questions were a sound basis for a thesis that someone could actually write a dissertation on. However, I asked him to please email me with the questions and that I would get input from church pastors and church leaders before I responded to his question. I did not want to give him just my opinion asI felt that he these questions deserved a consensus from a larger body of pastors and leaders who would best be capable of responding since this is their area of responsibility.

So, that is what I'm doing. I'm asking each of you who will be kind enough to respond to have a discussion with your fellow pastors and church leaders concerning these issues Mike brought up So I may respond to Mike as I promised.
Thank you for taking your time to discuss and respond to these, what I feel, are very critical questions that Mike has asked of us.
 
Gideon300

Gideon300

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#2
Mar 18, 2021
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christianlife.au
#2
Philos said:
At a recent apologetics conference a question was posited to me concerning the Great Commission. since the conference was not recorded the question that was asked of me I can only paraphrase as I ask the same question to this body.
In regards to the Great Commission; concerning the process of the preparation of Christ followers to be able to adequately share the good news with non- believers and then to make (train and help mature) disciples of new believers who in turn are they themselves capable of discipling others; How does the way that we currently do church accomplish this command? Specifically as I was asked. How the methodology of Sunday worship services, which usually involves singing, announcements, requests for tithes and offerings, special presentations and finally biblical lectures from church leaders who offer their personal interpretation of the chosen scriptures (also sharing their personal experiences that hopefully contribute to the understanding of those scriptures), along with special programs and individual targeted ministries and other events during the week accomplish this commandment given to each of us as Christ followers? His followup question was: What are churches current specific plans To mature new believers as well as current existing believers and how well is the church impacting our secular world?

I will tell you how I responded to this very intelligent young man, I will call him here mike, but more importantly I am posting this to get input from the body of Pastors and church leaders on this forum as to how to address these questions.

I responded by complimenting him on his very intelligent and heartfelt questions. I told him that I did not feel that I could not or should not attempt to respond with an appropriate response to these very deep and soul searching questions in brief time allotted in this Q and A format and that his questions were a sound basis for a thesis that someone could actually write a dissertation on. However, I asked him to please email me with the questions and that I would get input from church pastors and church leaders before I responded to his question. I did not want to give him just my opinion asI felt that he these questions deserved a consensus from a larger body of pastors and leaders who would best be capable of responding since this is their area of responsibility.

So, that is what I'm doing. I'm asking each of you who will be kind enough to respond to have a discussion with your fellow pastors and church leaders concerning these issues Mike brought up So I may respond to Mike as I promised.
Thank you for taking your time to discuss and respond to these, what I feel, are very critical questions that Mike has asked of us.
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I am much concerned by the trend away from solid biblical teaching. I believe that we are, at least in the Western church, in the era of ear tickling. Very large congregations are not conducive to sound teaching. I was blessed to spend many years with a small group that met in homes every day. Sometimes ministry was personal, to an individual struggling with a problem. Most of the time, it was solid teaching and fellowship.

This is the pattern of the very early church. (Acts 2:42). Some say that there are no more apostles. I disagree. They are called missionaries now. There are too many self appointed "apostles", that is true, but all of the saints are not yet at a place of maturity and will not be until Jesus returns. (Ephesians 4:11 & 12). What teachers and pastors seem to overlook is that their role is to equip the saints for ministry. Too often, leaders are intent on increasing numbers, not building up the saints.

Another obstacle is the "clergy/laity" divide promoted by many denominations. This is unbiblical. Having a few letters after your name does not make you a pastor and teacher. And a teacher must be a pastor and a pastor must be a teacher. Elders should be teachers also. There is way too much emphasis on one individual in most assemblies.

I could go on. The New Testament has much to say about the conduct of meetings. Sadly, this is mostly ignored today.
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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#3
Nov 12, 2021
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Philos said:
In regards to the Great Commission; concerning the process of the preparation of Christ followers to be able to adequately share the good news with non- believers and then to make (train and help mature) disciples of new believers who in turn are they themselves capable of discipling others; How does the way that we currently do church accomplish this command?
Click to expand...


For starters --the way the Church is today you can't accomplish this -------
The person trying to prep these down the road disciples ----better be a Mature --Holy Spirit indwelled person who relies on the Holy Spirit only ----for all their Spiritual knowledge and daily direction --and has great knowledge of the Scripture and Agapes God with all their heart --soul --mind and strength --and believe me there are not many of those around -----the Pastors ---Ministers --Priests today are mostly Just ---Want to be Christians ----and have no real Spiritual knowledge ----and take scripture and water it down and sugarcoat it so they don't loose people ---and Preach only the Lovey --dovey stuff and leave out the Hard preaching cause they don't understand it ---do to their ignorance of Spiritual knowledge ---and then twist the scripture to suit their own agenda ---and preach False Doctrine ------to make false Disciples ----Very Few Holy Spirit indwelled Minister preaching today


Philos said:
His followup question was: What are churches current specific plans To mature new believers as well as current existing believers and how well is the church impacting our secular world?
Click to expand...


First you have to find the Church whose Minister is a True Christian ----Here is the thing ---the Minister's job is to preach all scripture ----the bad and good ----to give the people a good foundation to build on --without first the right and strong foundation ---which is Christ's faith ---you will crumble --and Satan will destroy your Faith
-----Read the Parable of the Sower ----

Most Minister's themselves have no idea what Christ's faith is -----they just talk about having Faith but they never go into detail about how to get it and how it has to be Grounded and rooted to endure the storms that come -----there is so much to learn and digest in making good Disciples ----and unfortunately today ---Satan is in many churches ----and Good Disciples have to lean about their enemy and how to defeat him ----to stay connected to God ----Cause Satan will fight hard to keep Disciples from preaching the Word to others ---

Philos said:
To mature new believers as well as current existing believers and how well is the church impacting our secular world?
Click to expand...
The Believer is responsible to Mature themselves ------they have to want to Mature in their walk with Christ ----Many Carnal Christians will die in their carnal state -----Maturing in your Spiritual walk with Christ takes courage and stamina and much practice on our part ----the person has to be hungry and thirsty to want to Mature in their faith walk with Christ -----you need to be in the Word very often and better yet Daily -----going to church on Sunday won"t help you Mature ---just like it won't help you to ground and root your Faith in Christ ----

The congregation is only getting what Spiritual knowledge is fed to them ----and today there is not much Spiritual Knowledge or Truth being passed on to the people in the pews today -----

Many are Wrongly dividing the Word of God -----
 
Snackersmom

Snackersmom

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#4
May 10, 2011
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Gideon300 said:
.......Another obstacle is the "clergy/laity" divide promoted by many denominations. This is unbiblical.....There is way too much emphasis on one individual in most assemblies......The New Testament has much to say about the conduct of meetings. Sadly, this is mostly ignored today.
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I agree, especially with the parts I singled out above. Christianity is not a spectator sport, but many modern churches treat it as such.

As far as the solution goes, emphasis on the gifts and Spirit-enabled abilities of the entire congregation goes a long way. Some people don't witness because they aren't gifted like Billy Graham or Ray Comfort, but God can still use them in mighty ways. Others might be spiritually gifted to teach, but without a fancy degree the church might deem them unqualified.

We think of a "pastor" as the head guy in church who explains the Bible to everyone else, but really even a small congregation ought to have multiple members with gifts for shepherding and teaching.
 
Gideon300

Gideon300

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#5
Mar 18, 2021
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#5
Snackersmom said:
I agree, especially with the parts I singled out above. Christianity is not a spectator sport, but many modern churches treat it as such.

As far as the solution goes, emphasis on the gifts and Spirit-enabled abilities of the entire congregation goes a long way. Some people don't witness because they aren't gifted like Billy Graham or Ray Comfort, but God can still use them in mighty ways. Others might be spiritually gifted to teach, but without a fancy degree the church might deem them unqualified.

We think of a "pastor" as the head guy in church who explains the Bible to everyone else, but really even a small congregation ought to have multiple members with gifts for shepherding and teaching.
Click to expand...
No one hands out prizes to spectators.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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Paul to Timothy:

"..you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance..."

Timothy is not making up his own doctrine, he is following Paul.

Paul would also write to the saints in Corinth:

"Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ."

This is an elder setting an example for the young. This pattern is matched in every epistle.

And why shouldn't it be: Jesus told His disciples "In the way that the Father sent me, I am sending you".

Within a multi-generational house (family) wherein the elders are examples for the young, there is a clear line of culture whose origin is the father. This is true for the House of God and it is the way that God builds the house.

Scripture testifies that the relationship between the elders and young are essential within the Kingdom of God.

If you can receive it: God is not interested in converting more "non-believers". He is building His house. And unless He builds it, according to the way we can clearly read in scripture, the builders labor in vain.

I highlighted that last part to expand upon it: "in vain" is not like hopelessness. It literally means, in this context, they can build something spectacular but it will not be accepted by the Lord.
 
B

BrianParsons

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#7
May 25, 2024
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#7
Philos said:
At a recent apologetics conference a question was posited to me concerning the Great Commission. since the conference was not recorded the question that was asked of me I can only paraphrase as I ask the same question to this body.
In regards to the Great Commission; concerning the process of the preparation of Christ followers to be able to adequately share the good news with non- believers and then to make (train and help mature) disciples of new believers who in turn are they themselves capable of discipling others; How does the way that we currently do church accomplish this command? Specifically as I was asked. How the methodology of Sunday worship services, which usually involves singing, announcements, requests for tithes and offerings, special presentations and finally biblical lectures from church leaders who offer their personal interpretation of the chosen scriptures (also sharing their personal experiences that hopefully contribute to the understanding of those scriptures), along with special programs and individual targeted ministries and other events during the week accomplish this commandment given to each of us as Christ followers? His followup question was: What are churches current specific plans To mature new believers as well as current existing believers and how well is the church impacting our secular world?

I will tell you how I responded to this very intelligent young man, I will call him here mike, but more importantly I am posting this to get input from the body of Pastors and church leaders on this forum as to how to address these questions.

I responded by complimenting him on his very intelligent and heartfelt questions. I told him that I did not feel that I could not or should not attempt to respond with an appropriate response to these very deep and soul searching questions in brief time allotted in this Q and A format and that his questions were a sound basis for a thesis that someone could actually write a dissertation on. However, I asked him to please email me with the questions and that I would get input from church pastors and church leaders before I responded to his question. I did not want to give him just my opinion asI felt that he these questions deserved a consensus from a larger body of pastors and leaders who would best be capable of responding since this is their area of responsibility.

So, that is what I'm doing. I'm asking each of you who will be kind enough to respond to have a discussion with your fellow pastors and church leaders concerning these issues Mike brought up So I may respond to Mike as I promised.
Thank you for taking your time to discuss and respond to these, what I feel, are very critical questions that Mike has asked of us.
Click to expand...
I too have struggled, since God called me to proclaim His Word, with this question. "How is the way we currently do church accomplishing this command?" Twenty years later I now believe the question is the wrong question to be asking. It is not how we do church that determines how the command is accomplished. The issue is not how we come together to worship that makes strong followers of God and/or good disciples. The question we need to be asking is how are we, personally, serving God to fulfill this command?
It is not an us or they issue. It is for you alone to answer. It is for me alone to answer. The great commission was not given as a group project. It was given to each and every disciple of Jesus Christ to heed. Therefore, we need not fix the church. We only need to begin doing as Jesus commanded us to do. When God's children begin to do as He commanded us to do, then the church will right itself and the disciples of God will begin to gain the strength we need to begin winning this spiritual battle for the souls of man once more.
 
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