Fighting

I could do with some input from others on this subject . My best friend is currently annoyed at me because she thinks I'm being bullied and I'm enabling the bullies by not sticking up for myself . She's a slightly aggressive person , a straight shooter if u like , me I'm a placid soul , I despise confrontation but I am very capable of defending myself , certainly verbally , if the need arises . The problem I have is that the people who r baiting me and trying to get a reaction out of me r , my mum and her carer ( her carer is my late step dads niece ) . The carer is there for the money , not because she has genuine love for my mum , she's mentally and emotionally very vulnerable and my mum is using her to bait me . This sort of thing has been going on with my mum all my life , she's in her 70's and I'm in my 50's . My mum is a very frail , alcoholic diagnosed psychopath and I'm her only biological child . Because I'm aware of my mum's condition she's not able to upset me or hurt my feelings as I've learned to accept that she cant change what she is and isn't entirely responsible for her behaviour . While my step dad was alive he had a bit of control over my mum but he died in November and since then my mum's behaviour towards me is getting worse . What do I do ? Do I continue to bite my tongue and put up with the shenanigans that r being levelled at me by her and her acolyte carer ? Or do I give them a mouth full and leave them to stew in their own bile ? So far I'm managing to keep a lid on myself and let them know I'm not gonna play their mind games without being aggressive or nasty to either of them but , I never quite know what's gonna b thrown at me next . I'm pretty sure I should just continue to put up with it because she is my mum . What do others think please ?

Did Saul kill his thousands and David kill his tens of thousands?

It's easy to say, I would or would not...
Unless or until you are face to face with an aggressor.

Then you will decide.
Being in Christ does not mean you must be a punching bag.

God gave you life. It's up to us if we will let evil minded offenders take it from us.

Luke 11:21
“When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."

Luke 22:36
" He (Jesus) said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

1 Timothy 5:8 " Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

I'm sorry it's taken me a couple of days for me to reply to u , just found your question . Thanks for asking 😁 . I c my mum a couple of times a week , I visit her and go and get any shopping that she needs . Sometimes her carer is there and some times she's not . When my mum and I r alone together she is so nice to me , but if there is anyone else there , another family member etc , my mum will find some way of belittling me in front of them . My mum is a diagnosed psychopath and she's been that all of her life so I'm used to her ways . When my step dad was alive he seemed to have some control over her behaviour , he died last November and since then she has been going off the rails a bit 🥴 . How much of this should I put up with ? I don't want to abandon her completely as I am aware that I am the only person who genuinely cares for her wellbeing but , she doesn't appreciate or even seem to want my care for her . Am I being masochistic ? Next time she gives me grief should I walk away ? All through my life she's tried to influence others against me and portray me as a horrible person . It's no good asking why she does this , she does it because she is a psychopath . If I did abandon her , there is a good chance that she would end up being nasty to her carer , who is mentally and emotionally vulnerable . If my mum has me to pick on then that means she is leaving other vulnerable people alone but if I remove myself she will find another victim to manipulate and bully . So I'm in a bit of a quandary . I want to do what is right in God's sight and I think that is probably to b strong , trust in Him and take it on the chin and b the best daughter I can b in the circumstances . What do I think , both my hubby and best friend think that I should stop going to c her but I don't think I'm able to do that at the moment , though I do admit that she might go too far at some point in the future and upset me in which case I might end up not going back . I guess I should just go with the flow and c what happens next . Thanks so much for listening .

@Suze - has your mum ever-in-her-life-that-you-know-of professed Christ?

Thanks for responding , I appreciate it . My mum would just deny it , she has never accepted responsibility for any of her behaviour , she 76 this year so I'm guessing she won't start now 😋 . The thing that does worry me is this : she is manipulating her carer into doing her dirty work . So her carer is trying to wind me up to get a reaction out of me . Now I know my mum and her tactics and I'm used to this behaviour from her , she's used many people to get at me over the years . I'm able to hold my tongue with my mum because....she is my mum and a psychopath and she can't help being that . Her carer on the other hand means nothing to me and a couple of times now she has very definitely overstepped the mark with me ( at my mum's instigation ). I'm a very patient placid soul and it takes me a loooong time to loose my temper but , eventually , if she keeps this up , I may loose it with the carer . My mum has an excuse for her behaviour , the carer does not . If I loose my temper I will go thermal . The poor carer won't know what's happened . This girl thinks that my mum loves her like a daughter , loves her more than she loves me etc . She doesn't realise that all of her personal secrets that she's told my mum , my mum has told me . If I loose my temper I will break this girl's heart with just five sentences . I don't want to do this but I'm afraid of my own temper . I'm afraid of what I might say and the devestating effect this would have . I'm going to do my best to keep out of her way and if I'm in her company I shall glue my mouth shut 🤫 it's all I can do , I pray every day for God to continue to protect me and the carer from my mum's manipulations . Thank you so much for listening to me . If I talk to my hubby or my bestie about this they just both tell me to leave my mum and her carer to get on with it and keep out of both of their ways . I may yet have to do that , only time will tell . Thanks again 😁 .

She knows that I'm a Christian yes. She herself converted to catholicism many years ago but didn't keep it up . She is not interested in religion , read up a little bit about psychopaths if u r interested . They will tell u exactly what u want to hear . Then say the opposite to the next person if that's what the next person wants to hear . They r not all serial killers 🥴 thankfully .

I am thinking that if you are attacked in a way that is unjustified - "certainly not" is the answer.

We should always do our best to follow the Romans 12:18 directive/instruction. If we do so - God knows our heart and intentions - I do not believe that He would consider standing up for yourself in self-defense to be a sin.

HI Suze.
It best not to give any information to people like this and be quiet around them not fighting back. They will use anything you tell them against you. Ive seen people even argue with themselves in the mirror. I was around someone like this. At one point I made up false information just to get a handle on what was being berated. It was terrible though and it backfired. But Jay Carter's book really helped. https://archive.org/details/nastypeoplehowto0000cart/page/n4/mode/1up
It hard but we must be kind to those even when we are being treated this way. Moses had it far worse he had an entire nation on his back. We tried everything we could persuade him to become a Christian. We prayed constantly. But he just could not forgive a childhood trauma(s) and what he was subjected to he did to us. It's probably the same with your Mother she just doing what was done to her to you.

.

Thanks Daisy , I tend to agree with you . I know that it really annoys them both when I don't bite back 😁 I guess that's would b called a passive victory , the less I respond the more I frustrate them , thanks again 🌼 .

But aren't we supposed to b doing our best to b as much like Jesus as we possibly can ? Jesus says we should offer the other cheek , I think this has two meanings , the literal and the metaphorical , both of these meanings still point to a passive response if we r attacked in any way .

From Colossians 1:9-12 We ask God to fill you with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord and may please Him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have full endurance and patience, and joyfully giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light.

I believe this issue must be looked at from two separated perspectives - balanced against each other:

1) "Is it a sin to stand up for yourself?"
2) "Should you stand up for yourself?"

Since the OP literally asked - and was focused on - the first question, my answer was mainly directed and related to the perspective of that question.

Yes - we should all strive to "be like Jesus" as much as we possibly can - with regard to the distinctive qualities of His character and His personality.

With regard to the "other cheek" meaning...

Matthew 5:

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luke 6:

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

I believe that the intent of these passages - with regard to what it is trying to teach us - leans more towards us having a temperament that does not give in to being aggressive, argumentative, hateful, vindictive, etc. - being restrained by ingrained character trait and self-discipline to not react/reciprocate to such things directed at us (in the 'active' sense) - rather than taking on a completely acquiescent posture to everything that happens in life (in the 'passive' sense).

It is the Golden Rule from two different perspectives at the same time - as 'primary' and 'secondary' precepts:

1) Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

2) Even if/after others do evil/wrong unto you - you still do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

In other words, do not retaliate; rather, be consistent in loving your fellowman/neighbor/enemy/whoever.

I believe that self-defense and defense of others is a matter of a different perspective.

If I happen upon a man attempting to rape a woman - should I just let it happen?

Of course not - I should defend her from the attack of the man to prevent it.

If a man walks up to a woman and says that he intends to rape and kill her - should she just let it happen according to his will and plan? Or, should she provide resistance in an effort to escape the inevitable conclusion?

I realize that the proper "answer" in this scenario is highly context-and-situation based; however, I am speaking in the general sense whereby there is no worthwhile trade-off (in the woman's mind) to be had in allowing it - i.e. protecting her children, etc. - i.e. there are only two realistic options - which are to just let it happen or to try to escape it.

I know that there may possibly come a time, as a Christian, when you are certain that you have "reached the end" - you submit to allowing yourself to be tortured and killed for the cause of Christ. And, I know that - to a certain degree - this principle also holds true for "lesser" things they may experience in this life - also for the cause of Christ.

However, I also believe that in everything there must be a 'balance' for the "common normal continuance of things" - to maintain that which [simply] needs to proceed and must be allowed...

In general, for the society-level equation, there are things that simply must be allowed to exist if we are to maintain a reasonable and sensible existence. This requires an active measure of resistance to the escalation of evil on earth - as opposed to just letting it operate unbridled.

Common sense is also necessary.

If a stranger comes up to you on the street in the city and asks you to let them borrow $1000 from you...

1) If you have $1000 - will you immediately let them borrow it?

2) If you do not have $1000 - will you scrape to find it so that you can let them borrow it?

(Just because they asked you and the verse says do not turn them away?)

If a stranger comes up to you on the street in the city and asks you to give them money...

(And, what if they ask for $100 or $1000.)

If you know that they are going to use the money for an evil purpose - will you give it to them?

(Just because they asked you and the verse says do not turn them away?)

If we are to be good stewards of what God has given to us - shall we give it freely to evil-doers?

Or, should we apply a measure of good discernment to passages of scripture so that we may properly determine the true nature of what it is trying to get us to understand?

Even when we talk about taking the Bible literally, there must be a certain measure of common sense applied to it.

The only other thing I might say at this point:

"Let every soul do according to their measure of faith."

Is it a sin to stand up for yourself with words? Is it a sin to be a soldier, where you are accepting that you will be required not only to fight but to kill on demand? Is it a sin to be a law enforcer, where you are accepting that you will be required to enforce the law, with force if necessary? Is it a sin to be a reporter, and ask some evil people some pretty searching questions which may hurt their sensitive feels? Is it a sin for a woman to fight back and scream if someone tries to rape her? (The bible actually indicates it is sinful for her to do otherwise).

I hope you get my point.

Show us some verses...?