Imputed Righteousness???

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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And I have pointed out that I am not interested in your personal method or interpretation OR your desire to advertise your high opinion of yourself. It seems like Christianity just keeps loosing ground with all the people who think they understand better than anyone else while in the meantime, the Bible instructs us to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be led by Him.

Be careful you don't smack your head when going through a doorway because it sounds, from your post above, that it might be getting bigger.
This is whom the Holy Spirit led me to back in the 1970's. Found him in the 80's.

He does everything you have been demanding of others.
Done on a very high level of integrity.

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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And I have pointed out that I am not interested in your personal method or interpretation OR your desire to advertise your high opinion of yourself. It seems like Christianity just keeps loosing ground with all the people who think they understand better than anyone else while in the meantime, the Bible instructs us to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be led by Him.

Be careful you don't smack your head when going through a doorway because it sounds, from your post above, that it might be getting bigger.
I love you, sibling.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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When it becomes 'a part' of your life expression, it has been imparted.
Fore example: God imparted power to Samson.

When its a legal status given? It is imputed.
When imputed there will be not an active partaking of what God gives by decree.
God has imputed His righteousness to us.
Yet, we remain potentially sinners while yet in our present bodies.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Wiktionary is like wikipedia. It evolves and gets changed by people with an agenda. It follows contemporary useage, not historical meaning. In its definition of imputed, it is clearly being edited by religious interests who want it to have a meaning that supports the theory of the great exchange. And since it has become a synonym in the minds of such people, it is being used more with that meaning by more people. But that is not the meaning it had when the KJB was translated. You should check wiktionary against older standard dictionaries. You won't find your definition in them.

'https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/1307/how-much-should-i-trust-wiktionary#:~:text=Wiktionary is a single source,the same vulnerabilities as Wikipedia.
So now I'm wondering how much I should trust Wiktionary.

Currently, my thoughts are:

  1. Wiktionary is a single source of information. As with any information source, if you really want to be sure, you'd want to check multiple, independent, sources.
  2. Wiktionary theoretically has the same vulnerabilities as Wikipedia. These include people engaging in internet vandalism, people editing a wiki to push an agenda, people who are editing Wiktionary in good faith but who are biased, and lack of editorial oversight. However, as Wiktionary isn't as high-profile as Wikipedia, and Wiktionary is slightly more difficult to edit than Wikipedia, I don't think these are major problems.
  3. Wiktionary sometimes incorporates information from out-dated public domain sources.
  4. Wiktionary provides information that a dictionary shouldn't be providing.
 

bluejean_bible

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2025
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Wiktionary is like wikipedia. It evolves and gets changed by people with an agenda. It follows contemporary useage, not historical meaning. In its definition of imputed, it is clearly being edited by religious interests who want it to have a meaning that supports the theory of the great exchange. And since it has become a synonym in the minds of such people, it is being used more with that meaning by more people. But that is not the meaning it had when the KJB was translated. You should check wiktionary against older standard dictionaries. You won't find your definition in them.

'https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/1307/how-much-should-i-trust-wiktionary#:~:text=Wiktionary is a single source,the same vulnerabilities as Wikipedia.
So now I'm wondering how much I should trust Wiktionary.

Currently, my thoughts are:

  1. Wiktionary is a single source of information. As with any information source, if you really want to be sure, you'd want to check multiple, independent, sources.
  2. Wiktionary theoretically has the same vulnerabilities as Wikipedia. These include people engaging in internet vandalism, people editing a wiki to push an agenda, people who are editing Wiktionary in good faith but who are biased, and lack of editorial oversight. However, as Wiktionary isn't as high-profile as Wikipedia, and Wiktionary is slightly more difficult to edit than Wikipedia, I don't think these are major problems.
  3. Wiktionary sometimes incorporates information from out-dated public domain sources.
  4. Wiktionary provides information that a dictionary shouldn't be providing.
There was a second link in my posting for the definition as well.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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Holman's Bible Dictionary is defining imputed from the meaning the editors are reading into it in the Bible, perhaps oblivious to the fact that their meaning is not one found in any conventional dictionary. You are relying on sources that are giving words novel meanings simply because they are being used in the Bible.
 

bluejean_bible

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2025
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Holman's Bible Dictionary is defining imputed from the meaning the editors are reading into it in the Bible, perhaps oblivious to the fact that their meaning is not one found in any conventional dictionary. You are relying on sources that are giving words novel meanings simply because they are being used in the Bible.
You don't believe in imputed righteousness?
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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You don't believe in imputed righteousness?
I do. Imputed the way the Bible says it and the way impartial dictionaries mean imputed.

God imputed our faith to us as righteousness. We are not told that God imputed Jesus' or His own righteousnes to us in place of our own righteousness.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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I do. Imputed the way the Bible says it and the way impartial dictionaries mean imputed.

God imputed our faith to us as righteousness. We are not told that God imputed Jesus' or His own righteousnes to us in place of our own righteousness.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
We are counted/reckoned/regarded/imputed/viewed/seen/deemed/imputed as forgiven by virtue of sharing the righteousness of Christ through faith--like Abraham.
(both-and :^)
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Rom 4:1
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 4:9
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Well posted.. Yes indeed we are deemed Rightious through the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. We become spotless like the LORD Jesus when all our sins are atoned for..
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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We are counted/reckoned/regarded/imputed/viewed/seen/deemed/imputed as forgiven by virtue of sharing the righteousness of Christ through faith--like Abraham.
(both-and :^)
That is a teaching from some systematic theology. It is not said anywhere in the Bible.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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When it becomes 'a part' of your life expression, it has been imparted.
Fore example: God imparted power to Samson.

When its a legal status given? It is imputed.
When imputed there will be not an active partaking of what God gives by decree.
God has imputed His righteousness to us.
Yet, we remain potentially sinners while yet in our present bodies.
It may be fun to make up new meanings for words, but that is not a wise way to approach interpreting the Bible.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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It may be fun to make up new meanings for words, but that is not a wise way to approach interpreting the Bible.
I am not making up new words. I am using words commonly used to explain the difference between 'imputed' and 'imparted' so anyone could understand. Jesus did that often with his parables... make it simple.

It's our job to take what is complex and to make it simple enough to leave others to be without excuse for its rejection.

Seems some here are just grappling with the concepts themselves.

........
 

Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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Here is an abbreviated discussion from a friend who has spent years of study on this issue:

The Doctrine of Imputations
1. Imputation is the function of the justice of God in crediting something to someone for cursing or for blessing. Imputations are the outline of our lives, and these imputations are pertinent to both believers and unbelievers. . Our relationship with God is built upon these imputations. They form the framework in which all other doctrine is built upon which deals with our relationship with God. Imputations are the bones of the skeleton. Imputations give structure and strength to every concept and principle related to the Christian life. Imputations mark the outline of God's grace. Imputations tell the story of how divine justice accomplishes the purpose for which God created mankind.

2. The original languages:
1) The Hebrew verb is châshab (חָשַב) [pronounced khaw-SHAHBV], which means to think, to regard, to account, to count, to determine, to calculate. It is translated a myriad of ways in the KJV; among them: thought (Gen. 50:20), meant (Gen. 50:20), devise (1Sam. 18:25), think (Neh., 6:6), cunning (Ex. 35:35), purposed (Jer. 49:20), conceived (Jer. 49:30), reckon (Lev. 25:50), count (Lev. 25:52), impute (Lev. 17:4), accounted (1Kings 10:21). It occurs over 150 times in the Old Testament and is rendered in over ten different ways in the Old Testament. The first time we find this verb, it is quite significant. And Abram had believed Yehowah and He counted [= imputed] it to him as righteousness (Gen. 15:6). Strong’s #2803 BDB #362. This verb is found 126 times in the Old Testament.

2) The Greek verb is Verb logizomai (λογίζομαι) [pronounced log-IHD-zohm-ai], which means, 1) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over; 1a) to take into account, to make an account of; 1a1) metaphorically to pass to one’s account, to impute; 1a2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight; 1b) to number among, reckon with; 1c) to reckon or account; 2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate; 3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer; 3a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on; 3b) to suppose, deem, judge; 3c) to determine, purpose, decide. Thayer definition only. Strong’s #3049. This verb is found 42 times in the New Testament.

3. There are two categories of imputation. The first is real imputations and the second is called judicial imputations.
1) Real imputation is when the justice of God imputes under the principle of antecedence and affinity. What is imputed has an affinity, which is an agreement or a correspondence for that to which it is imputed. That means there is an affinity between Adam's original sin on the one hand and its home which is the sin nature. They are like things, there is no discontinuity there. So there are two factors involved here: what is imputed from the justice of God, and the home or the target for the imputation. In terms of antecedence, that antecedence goes back to Adam's original sin, the original fall, and the affinity is the agreement between Adam's original sin and the sin nature. This makes it a real imputation.

2) The second category of imputations, and these are judicial imputations. Judicial imputations take place where the justice of God imputes what is not antecedently one's own and where there is no affinity. In other words, there is no preceding action of event in the one to whom something is judicially imputed which warrants that imputation. Therefore there is no affinity, no agreement or inherent similarity between what is imputed and the recipient. That becomes clear when we look at the two judicial imputations.

4. There are four real imputations.
The first is Adam's original sin to the sin nature. Romans 5:12: Therefore, just as through one man [Adam]sin entered into the world, and [spiritual] death spread to all men [by means of imputation] because all sinned [when Adam sinned]. Romans 5:14:

Nevertheless, [spiritual] death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him [Jesus Christ] Who was to come [the 1st Advent of Christ]. 1Cor. 15:22a: In Adam, all die. Rom. 5:16: And the gift [Jesus Christ] is not like what occurred through the one who sinned [Adam]; For on the one hand, the judicial verdict came by one transgression resulting in condemnation [a real imputation], but on the other hand, that gracious gift [Christ's incarnation and Atonement] because of the many transgressions resulting in a judicial act of justification.

As an aside, there is a reason why Adam’s original sin is imputed to all of us—we need to stand condemned before God at birth, so that, if we die prior to the age of accountability, the Lord’s death on our behalf can be applied to us. All children who die before the age of accountability (before they are able to understand and make a decision about Jesus Christ) are therefore saved. Their volition is not an issue in the Angelic Conflict, because they have not yet considered God and the Lord Jesus Christ. David, when his infant son died, said, “He will not return to me; I will go to him.” (2Sam. 12:23b).

1) The sin of Adam was not imputed to Jesus Christ because there was no target; Jesus was born without the old sin nature, which is the target of Adam’s original sin. Blessed is the Man to Whom Jehovah does not impute iniquity, and in Whose Spirit there is no guile (Psalm 32:2).

2) The second type of real imputation is eternal life to the human spirit-there is an affinity there. The human spirit is that which the Holy Spirit creates and imparts to us at the instant of salvation, and that is what gives us the ability and understanding to relate to God. John 3:16, 36

3) The third is blessings in time are imputed to our perfect righteousness. We have perfect righteousness imputed from a judicial imputation and blessings in time are imputed to that. Psalm 106:30–31 1Peter 2:24

4) Fourth, blessings in eternity are imputed to the resurrection body. That which is done in the Spirit on earth is also parlayed into eternal blessings. 1Cor. 3:11–14
5. Judicial imputations:

1) The first is personal sin to Christ on the cross. Jesus Christ was born without a sin nature. He never committed any act of personal sin. Therefore there is nothing in Christ, no antecedent action, nothing preceding the cross which has any affinity or correlation with sin. The point here is that when personal sins were imputed to Christ there was nothing in Christ that had any affinity to personal sin, or there was no action in the life of Christ which made a basis for that imputation. Psalm 22:1 Matt. 27:45–46 1Peter 2:24

2) In the same way on the second type of imputation, which is perfect righteousness to the believer at the point of salvation, there is no affinity. The believer is born with a sin nature. He has three strikes against him: he has a sin nature; he has been imputed with Adam's original sin; and he has personal sins. So there is no antecedent action of perfection in man to make him worthy of salvation. There is nothing in man that has affinity with perfect righteousness; therefore it is a judicial imputation. Gen. 15:6: And Abram had believed Yehowah and He counted [= imputed] it to him as righteousness. Rom. 4:3–7, 22–25 2Cor. 5:21

Our own righteousness does not enter into the picture in any way. God has classified our righteousnesses as menstruous rags. Isa. 64:6
This is why Rom. 4:6 speaks of God imputing righteousness to us apart from our works.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Where is it not meant in the Bible, such as RM 4 & PHP 3?
I have covered Romans 4 already. Could you point to specific verses in Philippians that you think teach the great exchange.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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I have covered Romans 4 already. Could you point to specific verses in Philippians that you think teach the great exchange.
Sipsey
Yes, and I have already covered both RM 4 and PHP 3:7-11, so it would be more productive for you to reply to what Sipsey posted and I will watch.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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4. There are four real imputations.
The first is Adam's original sin to the sin nature. Romans 5:12: Therefore, just as through one man [Adam]sin entered into the world, and [spiritual] death spread to all men [by means of imputation] because all sinned [when Adam sinned]. Romans 5:14:
Adding words to the Bible does not make them part of the revelation unless they are inherent in the original revealed text. The Greek text does not say "spiritual death spread to all men", nor does it say this was so "by means of imputation because all sinned". It will take more than someone fantasy paraphrase to persuade me away from what scripture says. If you are willing to look at the Greek and consider what it says, let me know.