Which works justify?

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Feb 28, 2025
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Nevis
www.facebook.com
#81
We are not told to obey the Saturday Sabbath, or keep the dietary laws, and offer animal sacrifices. That was for Israel under the Old Covenant.
That is a huge lie. We are told to keep the Sabbath and the dietary law. The veil of the temple ripped when Jesus died so animal sacrifice is the only law that is done away with because Jesus is a sin offering.

Roman 3: 31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This is why we need to know what law Paul is talking about because he said we establish the law which is pointing to the royal law which includes the weekly and yearly Sabbaths.
 
Nov 28, 2023
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#82
JM 2:17 says, "faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead", which is in agreement with EPH 2:8-10 teaching that saving faith in God is followed by good or godly works.
Paul here is concerned with how to GET saved or our Initial Salvation. Paul’s motivation for saying much of what he did in our being saved by God’s grace is a refutation of the false belief of “Circumcision Salvationism” mentioned in Acts 15. There were Jews who were trying to deceive Gentile Christians that they needed to be first circumcised to be initially saved instead of believing the gospel message to GET initially saved. Believing this gospel message is our entrance gate to salvation and the foundation we stand upon is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. This gospel is that we believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen on the third day according to the Scriptures (for our salvation). Believing this message of salvation generally follows calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus for salvation, as well. Meaning, that we seek forgiveness from Jesus by way of prayer over our past life of sin.

The work of faith (in our Sanctification) is what will follow after we are saved by God's grace without works (which takes place in our Initial Salvation). The work of faith is a part of our faith and without faith, it is impossible to please God. We have our own unique set of instructions that is different than Noah, and or the Israelites under the Old Covenant.


....
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,955
550
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#83
For Rahab, she was justified by works when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way (v25).
Rahab was justified before God by the faith He could discern in her heart..
Rahab was justified before the Israelites as being sincere in her profession of faith in Yahweh, by her helping the spies escape.
 
Feb 28, 2025
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Nevis
www.facebook.com
#84
Thank you for your response. I hope your time on CC is fruitful. Many years ago I was called “Dogmatic.” I had to go to the dictionary to figure out whether I had been cussed out, or what.

There is a verse that states: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

I take the plain sense of this verse to mean what it says- To study, not merely read. I do a lot of research in my hobby and I have been involved with a few great teachers whose lives reflected their love of God and were able to share some of the great truths from the Scriptures. I don’t claim any title other than a sinner saved by grace.
Study does not mean to learn another language. It means to study and it tells you how to study by rightfully dividing the word of truth. In others words precept MUST be upon precept. Therefore if you did that why are you telling me about Greek? Again I speak English so show my in the bible in my language how I have eternal life and Jesus is not here yet. No one has done that so I showed through precepts that you not saved yet because if you actually studied you will realize it is possible to be blotted out of the book of life. If you can be removed then you need to endure until the end. That's why Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith doesn't fail because if it does you will be blotted out.
 
Nov 28, 2023
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#85
That is a huge lie. We are told to keep the Sabbath and the dietary law. The veil of the temple ripped when Jesus died so animal sacrifice is the only law that is done away with because Jesus is a sin offering.

Roman 3: 31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This is why we need to know what law Paul is talking about because he said we establish the law which is pointing to the royal law which includes the weekly and yearly Sabbaths.
No, it isn't.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV) says,
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:""

Of course, I know Sabbatarian Christians have their own twist on this verse (which is not mentioned in the context or any other cross-reference).

Galatians 4:9-11 says,
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you,..."

Paul says he is afraid for the Galatian believers because they keep days, months, and years. This is referring to Sabbaths (including the Saturday Sabbath) because it is an observance of a specific day.

Acts 15:5 (KJV) says,
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Acts 15:24 (KJV) says,
"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:"

Gentile Christians were told in the Jerusalem council to keep certain laws (like "do not eat things strangled with blood," etc.), but they were told that they did not need to be circumcised and to keep the Laws of Moses. This would include the Saturday Sabbath.

In fact, you will not find one command by Christ or His followers to keep the Saturday Sabbath.
You will also not find any "Saturday Sabbath day breaking sins" listed alongside other sins like murder, coveting, theft, adultery, etcetera in the New Testament.



....
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,557
743
113
#86
Study does not mean to learn another language. It means to study and it tells you how to study by rightfully dividing the word of truth. In others words precept MUST be upon precept. Therefore if you did that why are you telling me about Greek? Again I speak English so show my in the bible in my language how I have eternal life and Jesus is not here yet. No one has done that so I showed through precepts that you not saved yet because if you actually studied you will realize it is possible to be blotted out of the book of life. If you can be removed then you need to endure until the end. That's why Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith doesn't fail because if it does you will be blotted out.
I wish you well in your perseverance.
 
Oct 19, 2024
3,383
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#87
@Cameron143 some T or F questions
T F Without Faith it is impossible to please God - Heb. 11:6
T F All scripture is given by inspiration of God - II Tim. 3:16,17
T F No one is justified by works
T F No one is justified by the works of the law - Gal. 2:16
T F There is no contradiction in scripture
T F All works will cause us to be lost
T F We see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone - James 2:17
T F Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac on the altar - James 2:21
T F Abraham was justified by faith and by works
T F To have faith, one must first have God’s word upon which to base faith
T F Faith can extend beyond God’s commands and be acceptable to God
T F Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God - Rom. 10:17
T F One can offer whatever one wants, even that not commanded by God, and God must accept it as right
T F Cain’s offering was not accepted by God because it was not of faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Abel’s offering was accepted by God because it was offered in faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Rahab acted in faith - Heb. 11:31
T F We can continue in sin in order to receive God’s grace - Rom. 6:1
T F Abel offered only what God had commanded
T F Abraham’s faith wrought with his works and by his works his faith was made perfect - James 2:22
T F A man is justified by works and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F There are different kinds of works
T F Faith is a work - John 6:28,29
T F Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey Him - Heb. 5:8,9
T F Obedience is earning salvation
T F All earning salvation is sin
T F All obedience is sin
T F The only way to be pleasing to God is to disobey Him
T F We can be saved without obedience
T F We can be saved before obedience
T F Works of merit are the same as works of obedience
T F A work of faith is sinful
T F We can do the works of God - John 6:28,29
T F The work of God is that we believe - John 6:28,29
T F Believing is a work of God - John 6:28,29
T F All works are earning salvation and are sinful
T F Believing is sinful
T F We are saved by faith only
T F We are saved by repentance only - Luke 13:3
T F We are saved by confession only - Matt. 10:32,33
T F We are saved by baptism only - I Pet. 3:21
T F We must take all God’s word says on a subject to have the whole truth
T F Our sins must be washed away to be saved
T F The blood of Christ washes away sin of a lost sinner when one has faith to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16
T F He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved - Mark 16:15,16
T F We repent and are baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38
T F Baptism is something you do
T F Baptism is something that is done to you
T F Baptism is a burial - Rom. 6:4
T F A dead man cannot bury himself
T F We are raised from baptism to walk in newness of life - Rom. 6:4
Hope he has enough time to complete the exam before the Rapture! :^)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,557
743
113
#88
Hope he has enough time to complete the exam before the Rapture! :^)
I am a fan of Samual Clemens, aka Mark Twain. My favorite among his many quotes is, “I wrote you a long letter, because I did not have the time to write a short one.”

Anyone who is a writer will appreciate this concise statement.
 
Feb 28, 2025
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Nevis
www.facebook.com
#89
I wish you well in your perseverance.
Ok so you don't have any, good to know. Have a good day.
No, it isn't.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV) says,
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:""

Of course, I know Sabbatarian Christians have their own twist on this verse (which is not mentioned in the context or any other cross-reference).

Galatians 4:9-11 says,
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you,..."

Paul says he is afraid for the Galatian believers because they keep days, months, and years. This is referring to Sabbaths (including the Saturday Sabbath) because it is an observance of a specific day.

Acts 15:5 (KJV) says,
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Acts 15:24 (KJV) says,
"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:"

Gentile Christians were told in the Jerusalem council to keep certain laws (like "do not eat things strangled with blood," etc.), but they were told that they did not need to be circumcised and to keep the Laws of Moses. This would include the Saturday Sabbath.

In fact, you will not find one command by Christ or His followers to keep the Saturday Sabbath.
You will also not find any "Saturday Sabbath day breaking sins" listed alongside other sins like murder, coveting, theft, adultery, etcetera in the New Testament.



....
First of all, I don't have no interpretation. I love lobster and shrimp as much as the next guy. The scripture tells us to NOT lean on our own understanding. I cannot fight against GOD neither am I stronger or wiser than GOD. If he said to keep his Sabbath day I will do it regardless of how I feel. He said the Lobster was unclean thus I had no choice but to stop. If I could, I would but I can't because GOD don't make mistakes neither will he change his mind.

Holy days is in reference to the feast days which Paul kept

Acts 20: 16
16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

Based on your conversation it's obvious you don't keep the day of Pentecost but you are using Paul's writing to push the narrative that he is telling you not to do it. No, he is telling Saints like myself to do regardless of what people say to you and I have had people mock me for keeping Jesus holy days and his Sabbaths. You don't need to worry about that.

So Paul clearly dealt with all of GOD's holy days that are outlined in Leviticus the 23rd chapter, he is not speaking against them, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, you can read all of this. What kind of hypocrite will keep all GOD's laws and statues and then turn around tell you not to do them???

That's why Peter warned yall and GOD left the keys of hell in the hands of Peter.

2 Peter 3: 15 - 16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Again, every individual in this bible walked in GOD's law show me ONE person who did not keep GOD's commandments or Sabbath days.
 
Feb 28, 2025
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Nevis
www.facebook.com
#91
Galatians 4:9-11 says,
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you,..."

Paul says he is afraid for the Galatian believers because they keep days, months, and years. This is referring to Sabbaths (including the Saturday Sabbath) because it is an observance of a specific day.
Paul did not say that, you are just making him to say something he did not. If you read the entire chapter Paul is accusing the Galatians of wanting to go back to the world and serve sin. They wanted to do animal sacrifice which Christ did away with and Paul was upset about it. They wanted to observe times like we do today with all this horoscope and zodiac signs. C'mon man

Deuteronomy 18: 10
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
 
Oct 19, 2024
3,383
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#92
I am a fan of Samual Clemens, aka Mark Twain. My favorite among his many quotes is, “I wrote you a long letter, because I did not have the time to write a short one.”

Anyone who is a writer will appreciate this concise statement.
Yes (or an editor :^)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,184
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#93
@Cameron143 some T or F questions
T F Without Faith it is impossible to please God - Heb. 11:6
T F All scripture is given by inspiration of God - II Tim. 3:16,17
T F No one is justified by works
T F No one is justified by the works of the law - Gal. 2:16
T F There is no contradiction in scripture
T F All works will cause us to be lost
T F We see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone - James 2:17
T F Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac on the altar - James 2:21
T F Abraham was justified by faith and by works
T F To have faith, one must first have God’s word upon which to base faith
T F Faith can extend beyond God’s commands and be acceptable to God
T F Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God - Rom. 10:17
T F One can offer whatever one wants, even that not commanded by God, and God must accept it as right
T F Cain’s offering was not accepted by God because it was not of faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Abel’s offering was accepted by God because it was offered in faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Rahab acted in faith - Heb. 11:31
T F We can continue in sin in order to receive God’s grace - Rom. 6:1
T F Abel offered only what God had commanded
T F Abraham’s faith wrought with his works and by his works his faith was made perfect - James 2:22
T F A man is justified by works and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F There are different kinds of works
T F Faith is a work - John 6:28,29
T F Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey Him - Heb. 5:8,9
T F Obedience is earning salvation
T F All earning salvation is sin
T F All obedience is sin
T F The only way to be pleasing to God is to disobey Him
T F We can be saved without obedience
T F We can be saved before obedience
T F Works of merit are the same as works of obedience
T F A work of faith is sinful
T F We can do the works of God - John 6:28,29
T F The work of God is that we believe - John 6:28,29
T F Believing is a work of God - John 6:28,29
T F All works are earning salvation and are sinful
T F Believing is sinful
T F We are saved by faith only
T F We are saved by repentance only - Luke 13:3
T F We are saved by confession only - Matt. 10:32,33
T F We are saved by baptism only - I Pet. 3:21
T F We must take all God’s word says on a subject to have the whole truth
T F Our sins must be washed away to be saved
T F The blood of Christ washes away sin of a lost sinner when one has faith to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16
T F He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved - Mark 16:15,16
T F We repent and are baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38
T F Baptism is something you do
T F Baptism is something that is done to you
T F Baptism is a burial - Rom. 6:4
T F A dead man cannot bury himself
T F We are raised from baptism to walk in newness of life - Rom. 6:4
There is alot here, and were you inclined to hear what I had to say, I would address it. But I don't believe this to be the case.
You clearly believe that man needs to contribute works to grace for salvation. Nothing I share will alter that view. So rather than continue, I bid you grace and peace.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#94
As I interpret the Greek text of John 17:2-3, which diverges somewhat from many English translations IMHO, eternal life is defined there thus: everything (pan) that (h0) God (patEr) had given (dedOkas) to Jesus (autOi) which He had given (dOsEi) to all flesh (autois, i.e. pasEs sarkos) was aeonous life (aiOnion zOEn).

And all those things were given so that (hina) those being given them should know (ginOskOsin) the only true God (ton monon alEthinon theon) and Jesus Christ (kai IEsoun Christon), whom (hOn) God (se) sent (apesteilas).

So, aeonous life is receiving all things that the Father gave the Son to give usJohn 17:2-3). In the age to come we inherit all things with Christ.
Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

In this age we are given all things needed for life and godliness through the knowledge of Christ.
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:


These all thing are defined by John 17:3 as
Can you summarize this in a statement or two in your own words?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,184
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#95
You don't have eternal life yet that was the whole point. You can still die, he that is born of the spirit moves like the wind. You cannot move like the wind so therefore you are not saved. NO ONE is saved. In Hebrews 11, it states the elders only obtained a good report, they have not received the promises. I already quoted where Jesus said he that endure to the end shall be saved. Once you are saved you will have eternal life.
I do possess eternal life because I not only know God, but am known of God. I will not hear...I never knew you.
Those in Hebrews 11 had not received the promises because Christ had yet to come. All of the promises of God are in Him, yes, and in Him, amen...2 Corinthians 1:20. But even so, Abraham saw His day and rejoiced in it...John 8:56.
Enduring to the end is true of all saints. Not because saints are so great, but because of the faithfulness of Jesus. He who has begun a good work in you will perform it till the day of Jesus Christ...Philippians 1:6.

I genuinely feel sorry for those who find no rest in Christ and who continue to strive to be accepted of Him. He came to bring rest to such weary folks, if only they would yoke themselves to Him.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,184
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#96
If they had saving faith in Jesus as Lord, then they were justified/saved because of such faith, and the faithful/godly works they did/loving fruit they had evidenced/manifested such saving/justifying faith.
I thought that's what I said.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
2,123
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#97
Abraham believed to the point where he did as God asked. It really is not that hard. If you go to a doctor and he prescribes a medicine, most people will take it. Why? Because you trust the doctor. If you do not take the medicine, you prove that you do not trust him. You may claim to trust the doctor but your "works" show otherwise.
Good comments. I've highlighted part of them.

I've left out your reference to John6:27 because IMO there is discussion to be had about it and I'm not certain exactly how you're using it.

I would even take your comments a little further. The trust in the doctor is already a submission to him, and the trust/submission will eventuate in works he prescribes.

Yes, we can believe something without being in submission to that belief, but this is not how Biblical belief in God works. Biblical belief in God is submission to the fact that God is God. Biblical belief that Jesus is the Christ is submission to the fact that Jesus is YHWH's Christ - YHWH's King over all kings. In Paul's actual evangelism to Jews and God-fearing Gentiles in Acts13 we can see him referencing Psalm2 which explains the Kingship aspect of the title "Christ".

The simplicity is that if Jesus is the Christ and we truly believe this, then that true submission will eventuate in doing what He commands. If we're not obeying Him, then we're not believing in Him.

True Faith-Obedience will eventuate in good works God prepared for us to walk in.
 
Feb 28, 2025
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Nevis
www.facebook.com
#98
In fact, you will not find one command by Christ or His followers to keep the Saturday Sabbath.
I had to read your post again and man, who taught you all of this??

That is another lie. Jesus is the one who told you to keep the Sabbath and I can prove it with scripture.
I do possess eternal life because I not only know God, but am known of God. I will not hear...I never knew you.
Those in Hebrews 11 had not received the promises because Christ had yet to come. All of the promises of God are in Him, yes, and in Him, amen...2 Corinthians 1:20. But even so, Abraham saw His day and rejoiced in it...John 8:56.
Enduring to the end is true of all saints. Not because saints are so great, but because of the faithfulness of Jesus. He who has begun a good work in you will perform it till the day of Jesus Christ...Philippians 1:6.

I genuinely feel sorry for those who find no rest in Christ and who continue to strive to be accepted of Him. He came to bring rest to such weary folks, if only they would yoke themselves to Him.
I noticed you have ignored every scripture I throw at you and I would like to say the scripture is given by GOD not me. If you don't keep GOD's commandments then you don't know Jesus according to the scripture, I gave in response to what you said. So I will ask you straight out, do you keep GOD's commandments?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,184
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#99
I had to read your post again and man, who taught you all of this??

That is another lie. Jesus is the one who told you to keep the Sabbath and I can prove it with scripture.

I noticed you have ignored every scripture I throw at you and I would like to say the scripture is given by GOD not me. If you don't keep GOD's commandments then you don't know Jesus according to the scripture, I gave in response to what you said. So I will ask you straight out, do you keep GOD's commandments?
Keeping commandments is the goal of every Christian...so yes, I obey the commandments.

How do you keep the commandments? For example, how do you keep the 1st commandment? Can you tell me all that must be done to be able to say you have kept this commandment?