Antisemitism

I'm English by birth. I have watched the decline of once Great Britain from Australia. I believe this is due to two things. The first is the spiritual condition of the nation. It's not been a Christian nation for decades. The second is the betrayal of Israel by the British, even before Israel was restored as a nation.

Britain ruled the world for 100 years. It is now unrecognisable. The most common boy's name is Mohamed. Christians are harassed by the police while Muslim crime is ignored. Kids are learning about Islam in schools (ignoring Mohamed's mass murdering paedophilia) while British history is ignored. My most recent visit was in 2016. I can't imagine ever visiting again.

God's word is ever true. Britain is a stark warning to those who reject God's truth.

"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you.” Genesis 12:3

Britain is learning what it means to be under God's curse. It is on track to become a Muslim republic. That means nuclear weapons in the hands of Muslims. What could possibly go wrong?

I raise this subject because some on the forum are against Israel and are pro "Palestinian" (no such thing, of course). We need to pray for our leaders so that they do not fall into the same trap as Britain. Australia has become increasingly antisemitic and much blessing has come off already. America is blessed with a President who is very much pro Israel. This is just as well, as America needs God's blessing as much as anyone.

thank you Gideon

That was spoken to Abram who was neither an Israelite nor a Jew. In fact, he was a Gentile who died before the nation of Israel was formed and before there was a Jew on the face of this earth. Not only that, but God ultimately changed Abram's name to Abraham which means "a father of many nations." Furthermore, the blessing of which God spoke is directly related to Abraham's seed, which is Christ (Gal. 3:16). In other words, it is through Jesus that all the families of the earth can or will be blessed. Seeing how Abraham's name, which he was given by God, means "a father of many nations," and seeing how all the families of the earth can be blessed through Abraham's seed, which is Christ, why should any President who claims to be a Christian only be "pro-Israel?" Should not any true Christian be pro-anybody-from-any-nation-that-calls-upon-the-name-of-the-Lord?

That seems like a fair question to me.

oh, nukes exist, but i am convinced that no nation will ever use one. have heard " 2 steps away from nuclear war" since i was 11 years old, back in '83.

they are for threats and bluster and to siphon tax money and that is about it...

You're 100% correct of course. Funny when Trudeau said he'd arrest Benjamin Netanyahu if he stepped into Canada I looked at my husband and said "well, his career is over". A week later Trudeau resigned.

Beware of those who call themselves Jews but, rather, they are a synagogue of Satan.

It is important to actually know what a true Jew is.

+Take that one up with the Word, it is a direct quote from Revelation, or the Apocalypses.

Jordan was created and then granted statehood. Funny how that works.

But don't you find this all rather fitting given that the Great Empire had an essential role in destabilizing the middle east from a historical point of view?

And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram Gen 14:13

Yes, Abram was a Hebrew, but he most definitely was not either an Israelite or a Jew. I explained this, from scripture, on another thread before, and you can read that if you want to by simply following this link.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/some-thought-about-jews.217085/page-8#post-5424718

I agree to a point. The difference is that God chose one specific nation to be the outward symbol of His ability to fulfill His promises. Israel is a secular nation, yet any reading of her history should leave us astonished. She is the "nation born in one day" as prophesied. She not only survives, she prospers despite having a tiny amount of land and being surrounded by ruthless enemies that want nothing but to eradicate Israel and every Jew on the planet.

God chose the Jews to bring forth the Messiah. "Salvation is of the Jews", John 4:22. Lord Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem. (Zechariah 14:4 & 5). Paul corrected those who looked down on the Jews (Romans 3 and Romans 9).

It is obvious to any objective observer that God has not yet finished with Israel. When Muslims tell me how great their "Allah" (Satan in disguise) is, I ask them why their "Allah" is powerless to put an end to Israel.

For about 60 years, perhaps more, there were very few Christians in Israel and very little interest. God has been moving mightily, another sign (to me) that we are are in the last of the last days. Google has this to say:

"According to available data, searches for "Yeshua" are significantly more popular in Israel than in other regions, often ranking as the most searched religious term within the country, essentially representing searches for "Jesus" in Hebrew, indicating a high level of interest in the figure among Israeli internet users; however, globally, "Jesus" remains the more widely searched term overall."

In heaven, there is no distinction between Jew and Christian. On earth, God still identifies Jews as unique and Israel special. And that is exactly why the world hates Israel for no reason other than it exists.

Here's what I agree with:
Yes, according to the Bible, when Abraham is called a "Hebrew," it essentially means he is considered the forefather of the Jewish people, so in that sense, he can be considered the first Jew; the term "Hebrew" is the original name for the people now known as Jews, with Abraham being the first person referred to as such in the Torah.
and from Chabad:
Who Are the Hebrews?

Chabad
https://www.chabad.org › ... › Who Are the Hebrews
The first person to be called a Hebrew was Abraham,1 and the name commonly refers to his descendants, known as the Jewish people.

I should have mentioned that Hagar, the handmaiden impregnated by Abraham, would indeed make him the father of many nations which include the Arab people.

Genesis 16:13

Hebrew: from across the river.

We shall all cross Jordan on His Day.

Hi, TabinRivCA.

When it comes to Abraham, there are two very important things that we need to know.

1. His name means "a father of many nations."
2. His being "a father of many nations" has nothing at all to do with natural descendance or lineage, and everything to do with faith in Christ.

Please consider what the Apostle Paul said here.

Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 4:9
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Abraham is "the father of all them that believe" (vs. 11), or of all "who also walk in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham" (vs. 12), or "to that which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations) before him whom he believed, even God" (vss. 16-17), or so "that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be" (vs. 18).

Simply put, he is the father of all of those, from any nation, who have faith in his seed, which is Christ (Galatians 3:16) that is similar to his own faith in Christ.

Are there Israelites who have faith in Christ?

If there are, then they are Abraham's seed.

Are there Palestinians who have faith in Christ?

If there are, then they are Abraham's seed.

The same principle applies to people from any nation who have placed their saving faith in Christ.

In this sense, and not in the sense of natural descendance or lineage, Abraham is "the father of many nations."

With such truly being the case, to offer unilateral and unwavering support to any nation, without considering the individuals within that nation, and without considering the individuals within any nation with whom they might be at odds, is simply wrong from a Christian point of view.

Hopefully, you at least understand what I am saying.

Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Would it be more accurate to say that Abraham's being "a father of many nations" is of more importance for his spiritual descendants than his physical descendants? I'd argue God fulfilled his promise both physically and spiritually.

This is a fair question, so I will give it a fair answer.

Please consider this conversation between John the Baptist and certain Jews of his day.

Mat 3:1
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mat 3:4
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
Mat 3:5
Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Mat 3:6
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

The first thing that we need to realize is that whenever we read of Judaea in the New Testament, we are reading about the land inheritance that was given to the tribe of Judah. Furthermore, it is from the word Judah that the word Jew was derived. In other words, here, we are reading of a dialogue between John the Baptist and certain Jews of his day.

What did John say to certain of them?

Again, he said this:

Mat 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Why did he say that?

He said that because certain Jews of his day were trusting in their natural descendance or lineage from Abraham, but, as I have been seeking to explain, natural descendance or lineage alone does not make one a true child of Abraham in God's eyes. Instead, saving faith in Jesus Christ does, and those to whom John the Baptist made this statement did not believe in Jesus Christ. Therefore, they were not truly children of Abraham as far as salvation is concerned because they did not possess the same type of saving faith in Jesus Christ, who is Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:16), that Abraham did.

With this in mind, please also consider the following conversation between Jesus and certain Jews of his day.

Jhn 8:33
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jhn 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Jhn 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Jhn 8:37
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Jhn 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Jhn 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Jhn 8:40
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Jhn 8:41
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jhn 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Jhn 8:43
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When Jesus was conversing with certain Jews of his day, they told him "We be Abraham's seed" (vs. 33), and Jesus acknowledged their natural descendance or lineage from Abraham when he said "I know that ye are Abraham's seed" (vs. 37). However, when they said "Abraham is our father" (vs. 39), Jesus responded by saying "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham, but now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham" (vss. 39-40). He then proceeded to tell them "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (vs. 44).

My point?

Once again, we see certain Jews whose natural descendance or lineage came from Abraham, but their spiritual descendance or lineage came from their father the devil.

Again, it is only those who walk in the same faith that Abraham had in his seed, which is Christ (Galatians 3:16), who are truly the seed of Abraham or the children of Abraham.

Can someone be both a natural descendant and a spiritual descendant of Abraham? Sure, they can, and we have examples of the same in scripture. At the same time, however, we also have plenty of examples where natural descendants of Abraham were not truly Abraham's seed in God's eyes because they did not have the same saving faith in Christ that Abraham had.

Hopefully, you can see this.

How does this pertain to the topic at hand?

It pertains in that if so-called Christians in this so-called Christian nation with its so-called Christian President have no problem at all with true Christians from other nations being wiped out through war, then I highly question as to whether or not any of the so-called Christians are truly Christians at all.

To be quite frank, it seems to me that a lot of the so-called Christians in this nation are either Nationalists or Zionists...or a combination of the two.

Abraham is "the father of many nations" in that anybody from any nation who has placed their saving faith in him is his seed or child in a spiritual sense.

Again, are there true children of Abraham in Israel?

I believe that there are.

Are there true children of Abraham among the Palestinians?

I believe that there are.

These individuals need to be our primary focus as opposed to offering unilateral and unwavering support to any particular nation.

Which kinda makes one ask the question who are the physical descendants in this day and age, how much DNA is required, given the historical record of the number of deaths in the first century, with very few if any surviving.