Saved from what ?

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Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#41
Sep 2, 2020
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#41
Jimbone said:
Here are a few text that tell us we are BORN in sin.

But you will have a problem with this if you can't deal with these things honestly in good faith. If all you want is to be right and with an argument over a brother in Christ, then you can act blind to these things, but if you are truly in Jesus and desire the Truth, then you already know what I'm talking about. However if you've not been born again then these things will be foolishness to you.

Also I HATE proof texting as an argument or "proof" in these threads. Anyone can do that, I'd rather read Gods voice when you're making your case in your own words. Anyway we are born cut off from God and dead in Adam. If you disagree then make your case teacher, that we are NOT born in sin. You prove it.

Isaiah 59:1-2
Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear; but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

1 John 1:8-10
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Romans 3:10-18
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” ...

Psalm 14:2-3
The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.


Ephesians 2:3
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Proverbs 22:15
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.


1 Peter 1:18-19
Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
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“Here are a few text that tell us we are BORN in sin.

But you will have a problem with this if you can't deal with these things honestly in good faith. If all you want is to be right and with an argument over a brother in Christ, then you can act blind to these things, but if you are truly in Jesus and desire the Truth, then you already know what I'm talking about. “


Lol again I was just asking you a question my friend for your thoughts about something. I hadnt said anything about you being wrong or right in any way it was asking your thoughts about something …..

And Thanks , I think I see your position. Though I would not agree that any of those scriptures say we are born “spiritually separated from God “


Which is what you said originally and what I had asked about if there were any scriptures to support being born “spiritually separated from God “

ive read about how man sins and separates themselves from God before so that he refuses to hear them but this doesn’t then equal being spiritually seperated from him though .

I agree that sin separates man from God relationship wise and causes him to not listen …..and that serving sin brings death

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But again

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

But that’s different from saying we are all born “dead spiritually “or “separated from God spiritually” since Adam …that’s what I was asking about which is what you had said but you seem defensive all I was doing was trying to understand some peoples ideas better

abut can I ask you was Noah for instance born spiritually cut off from God ?

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood;…..

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.


….( God gave Noah instructions for what to do to build the ark and fill it ) Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9, 13-14, 17-18, 22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

was Noah cut off from God because of what Adam did ?

Or was Noah in a relationship with God ? And walking by faith ?

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or Enoch ?

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭

i don’t think God has ever been spiritually seperated from mankind myself , but it wasn’t the point of asking you about scripture saying what you had said
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#42
Sep 2, 2020
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#42
rrcn said:
They were all saved by grace through faith. That is the everlasting gospel.

[Rev 14:6 KJV] 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
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saved by grace through faith . What does that term mean to you ? To be saved by grace through faith ?

i agree with you for instance noah was saved by Gods grace and through his faith in Gods word to him

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood;

( he gives Noah instructions by his word verbally ) and ….. Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:8-9, 13-14, 22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; ( Noah believed Gods warning so he acted in faith and o eyes him and was saved ) by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s all we need to do also hear the lords word and believe him and act in faith
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#44
Sep 2, 2020
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#44
rrcn said:
I may have missed a salient somewhere but, I believe this sums up at least part of the discussion:
[1Co 15:22 KJV] 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
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Remember Adam did what God said would cause death ? But israel was later told for themselves

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we can’t really say because they are descendants of Adam they all have to die God is offering life and blessing

he also makes clear

“For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:11-14‬ ‭

So we can’t really say they aren’t able to hear it and do it . Just as the New Testament recalls the same

Or God wasn’t with them or didn’t send his spirit among them to speak and lead them through prophets like Moses or Elijah or Isaiah ect ect or judges like Samson and so on

“Cast me not away from thy presence; And take not thy holy spirit from me.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:11‬ ‭

God has always been there with man sometimes he withdraws for a time but he’s always observing mankind through the spiritual connection we have with him

our living spirit inside our body originally came out of God and when our bodies die our spirit now a mature person will return to God where spirit comes from

he isnt replacing our spirit but redeeming it by the comforters presence with us
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#46
Jan 16, 2021
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#46
Pilgrimshope said:
just to simplify “ what are we being saved from ? Or any other thoughts and beliefs you have regarding what salvation means to a person
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Saved from me.
I am my own worst enemy. I have no concept of good except for what God has taught.

The Heaven in store as my reward is not one of my making but one God has created...which means it is perfect. And that's such a relief and blessing.
 
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