Understanding God’s election

No fruit means no salvation.

If it is speaking of believers, why would they need to be quickened together Christ? Are there believers who have not been quickened together with Christ?

I was referring more to the requirements of the gospel -- the demands of the gospel with the most fundamentally important of those being faith and repentance. Iquisitor said earlier that the Law basically was given to show Israel their NEED for a Savior, thereby essentially agreeing with me that the "demands" of the law never implied anyone's innate ability to keep those demands. So...since this was the case under the Old Covenant, then how does Inquistor not see the same spiritual inability and messianic need spilling over to the gospel demands in the NT?

Yes, that's correct, many people do not believe in the Trinity and use that very reason. But have provided Scripture that says the exact opposite of TULIP, there lies the difference. We know that God loves the sinner, His Word says so. We can revisit the Bible verses again if you wish.

Very well said. That describes every accuser I've witnessed post here.
Maybe they think if they read one of his books and learned something that would be a sin. One claims they are a former Calvinist. I can see why given their postings show they didn't learn a thing while affiliated.


There was a case of vandalism to a property near us a few years ago. Racial bias was behind it. Anyway,a reporter asked a local near that property what went on so to generate this kind of hatred.

I think his was a pat answer for a lot of ridiculous behaviors.

Well,I don't know what goes on there but I don't like it!

It's unfortunately credible that someone could attend a Regular Baptist or Presbyterian Church for twenty years and know nothing but caricatures of the Doctrines of Grace.

Ephesians is not a good letter to use to discuss this topic.

Ephesians 2:15-16
For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love
for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you.

They are one of the churches that behaved themselves.

Either Galatians or Corinthians is a better church to discuss behavior.

I would hate to ask them on what basis are they saved.

I bet that the replies would be varied.

why are people always condemning and telling each other they are wrong?
The enemy tears down but we are to build.....we are not to judge because the hand is not the eye it can't say it doesn't belong to the body...Father Loves diversity, if we cannot unite with people who are like us how will we fit into The Spirit World where there are Spirits who differ from us in a myriad of ways?
we are Abrahamic so The Test is how we unite with our Bretherin. look past each other's short comings because we all have them....The Law of The Prophets

discuss with me if you want?

We're not discussing behavior. We're discussing whether or not the description given is of believers or unbelievers. You said both. If so, that would mean, according to Ephesians 2:5, believers still need to be quickened together with Christ.

That seems odd to me.

What it actually reveals is that God quickens unbelievers with Christ before they are saved.

what does it mean to be quickened? is that the same as being stirred or drawn to God?

No. It means to be made alive.

Finaslly someone gets it bless you

bless you for hearing me thank you xxx

oh ok but if that is for unbelievers which would make sense then yeah it cannot be for believers or even both

how about we discuss what we have discerned about The Father? I would lije to know how people perceive Him

if we focus on The Most High it will make us feel positive and expand our horizons

Oh this is my favorite thin to talk about. He has a very strong yet gentle nature his laughter is like a deep hearty laugh his love is so deep and rich that just one drop is to much for our bodies to handle you will be begging him to take you his warmth is so embracing it makes you fall head over heels for him like madly in love with him his heart is avast endless ocean that you sink into so deep so full of wonder and beauty that you can not believe such a thing could ever exist eternity is nothing to him let alone a day his eyes are soft and gentle towards us and he holds us in his loving arms when we are sad or broken the list goes on and on and on