Salvation Lost? Really?
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Does the broad gate leading to destruction take one into the sheepfold? 
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If I may, I would like to supplement what you said:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise...
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
To say that one can lose salvation, that lays down a false foundation of understanding that the seal of Holy Spirit is weak, and therefore subject to breakage to the point of loss. That clearly is an invention of man to try and paint a portrait of a weak god who is incapable of holding into to those who have placed their faith in his works for them. That system of thought makes salvation a works-based process rather than the instantaneous and permanent reality that it is within scripture.
When a permanent seal is placed on one by Deity, what can possibly break or weaken it from the strength of human effort? We both agree that there is no such power on earth or in Heaven.
I have yet for any of the defenders for the alleged loss of salvation to point out one person who has ever lost his or her salvation. It's like shadow boxing...never being hit by your own punches.
One fella some months ago claimed that HE had lost his salvation at some point in the past. When I asked him how he knew he had lost it, he pointed only to his moral conduct and attitudes during that stretch of his life...with his never once realizing that he was STILL making salvation a matter of personal effort and works for not only acquiring it, but to also maintaining it through self-effort. He even went so far as to claim that the Lord has to empower one to maintain it through effort. Asking him to show scriptural proof of all that was a fruitless endeavor in the face of all his references from the Bible that, in context, and the intended audience, simply did not at all support his presuppositions.
MM
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise...
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
To say that one can lose salvation, that lays down a false foundation of understanding that the seal of Holy Spirit is weak, and therefore subject to breakage to the point of loss. That clearly is an invention of man to try and paint a portrait of a weak god who is incapable of holding into to those who have placed their faith in his works for them. That system of thought makes salvation a works-based process rather than the instantaneous and permanent reality that it is within scripture.
When a permanent seal is placed on one by Deity, what can possibly break or weaken it from the strength of human effort? We both agree that there is no such power on earth or in Heaven.
I have yet for any of the defenders for the alleged loss of salvation to point out one person who has ever lost his or her salvation. It's like shadow boxing...never being hit by your own punches.
One fella some months ago claimed that HE had lost his salvation at some point in the past. When I asked him how he knew he had lost it, he pointed only to his moral conduct and attitudes during that stretch of his life...with his never once realizing that he was STILL making salvation a matter of personal effort and works for not only acquiring it, but to also maintaining it through self-effort. He even went so far as to claim that the Lord has to empower one to maintain it through effort. Asking him to show scriptural proof of all that was a fruitless endeavor in the face of all his references from the Bible that, in context, and the intended audience, simply did not at all support his presuppositions.
MM
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I agree with Irenaeus and his fight against the Gnostic heresies which affirmed esoteric knowledge, dualism (spirit is good, matter is evil), and a transcendent non-creator God above Jehovah.
That they denied Jesus came in the flesh informs me that what the Gnostics could not have any understanding of the doctrines of salvation and within their teachings eternally saved would have been wrong because it was built on faulty foundational understanding of the Christian faith.
However, within the biblical text according to Paul and the New Testament writers saved is saved.
That they denied Jesus came in the flesh informs me that what the Gnostics could not have any understanding of the doctrines of salvation and within their teachings eternally saved would have been wrong because it was built on faulty foundational understanding of the Christian faith.
However, within the biblical text according to Paul and the New Testament writers saved is saved.
Brother, we disagree on politics but you hit the nail on the head here. And what's amazing is that you're British Australian who speaks English, who is able to tell this small (but massive) detail due to you being in Australia perhaps?
Because in some cultures, like mine in Albania, the word "saved" exists in only a few Bible translations because it makes no sense culturally.
Even in English, when you first read this you might say, are we saving a videogame progress here?
So to be more precise we say "What must i do to get to Heaven? Or Paradise?"
Similarly the word "murder" doesn't exist in my language. Only the word "kill".
Interesting stuff and i'm glad you picked on it.
God bless you sir.
Because in some cultures, like mine in Albania, the word "saved" exists in only a few Bible translations because it makes no sense culturally.
Even in English, when you first read this you might say, are we saving a videogame progress here?
So to be more precise we say "What must i do to get to Heaven? Or Paradise?"
Similarly the word "murder" doesn't exist in my language. Only the word "kill".
Interesting stuff and i'm glad you picked on it.
God bless you sir.
Generally speaking:
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
The context does not show to us a re-splashing of the filth of sin being upon us...not when He sees only the righteousness imputed upon us by and through Christ Jesus. We are washed and we are righteous by imputation, even though we still sin, we are SEALED by Holy Spirit. That sealing is something never promised to the ancients, but only to us from the time of the revelation of the mystery through Paul.
Why so few are willing to declare that they too are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, I cannot say. Perhaps the false fear for salvational loss keeps them from realizing that.
So, folks, I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus!
What about YOU?
The Power of that righteousness will hold me all the way up to, through and beyond the death of this body if I am not alive at the Rapture.
MM
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
The context does not show to us a re-splashing of the filth of sin being upon us...not when He sees only the righteousness imputed upon us by and through Christ Jesus. We are washed and we are righteous by imputation, even though we still sin, we are SEALED by Holy Spirit. That sealing is something never promised to the ancients, but only to us from the time of the revelation of the mystery through Paul.
Why so few are willing to declare that they too are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, I cannot say. Perhaps the false fear for salvational loss keeps them from realizing that.
So, folks, I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus!
What about YOU?
The Power of that righteousness will hold me all the way up to, through and beyond the death of this body if I am not alive at the Rapture.
MM
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Yes Paul is saying they the "ungodly men" are taking what is true "the grace of God" and making it something that it is not.
People were slandering Paul too, accusing him of teaching a license to sin.
They used distorted logic.
To preach Grace is not to sanction sin, what it does teach is the only solution for sin is Grace.
People were slandering Paul too, accusing him of teaching a license to sin.
They used distorted logic.
To preach Grace is not to sanction sin, what it does teach is the only solution for sin is Grace.
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