Salvation Lost? Really?

There was a time, in my more ignorant past, where I believed that one could lose his salvation. Boy was I wrong, and here's why:

To point at someone, or even at self, and claim one or another had lost his or her salvation at some point in the past, or are standing in that jeopardized position at the present time, that is nothing but works-based salvation!

Some may say, "Now, wait a minute! There are many out there who have lost their salvation. Some have even regained it, and then lost it again..." On and on the claims will go by those who are actually trying to convey the idea that they are authorities over who is saved and who is not, sometimes just by looking at others or at themselves throughout the years of their own past.

What REALLY do they know about anything having to do with salvation if it is a thing that can so easily be lost, which leads to no other conclusion than the idea that Holy Spirit has a very weak grasp upon the saved, with many having been plucked from the Hand of Christ Jesus, which is contradictory to the scriptures.

Think about it...if anyone can lose their salvation, then retention of salvation is by the efforts of each individual rather than the perfectly finished work of Christ Jesus. That individual is claiming, then, that they still have theirs because of their own efforts, where others allegedly lost theirs by not retaining it through good works or abstinence from some measure of sin that has a line they cannot define authoritatively.

Folks, that is indeed BOASTING. That is nothing short of silently claiming that they have "worked" to abstain from walking those paths that others were, or are, walking who have allegedly lost their salvation. Do you see the dichotomy in that? Casting salvation into a mixing bowl that has any leavened ingredient of a work on our part, and the entire lump is leavened.

So, who among you has ever known anyone who allegedly ever lost their salvation, and how did you prove that, even if you're going to make yourself the target of that claim? Your feelings? Their feelings? What you saw coming out of them or yourself? Who among us no longer has any expressions of sin exuding from us each and every day? Who among us is living in sinless perfection? Who among us has no sin?

Who here can draw that line that others can see whereby crossing it would or does lead to loss of salvation?

Conversely, pointing at self or someone else, and claiming loss of salvation at some point in the past, how can we know they or you were ever saved at all in the first place to have allegedly lost it?

It's a snake eating its own proverbial tail.

Do you see the issue here?

It is either works, or it is grace. It cannot be both, for there is no power on this earth that can truly intermix them together under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

He tells us no one can come to Him unless He leads us to Him.

It's interesting, isn't it, that lack of rightly dividing the word of truth in so many sections and contexts of scripture?

One one hand Jesus said:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

On the other, He said this:

John 6:44, 65
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The lack of consideration of the context makes Jesus appear to self-contradict. That simply is not the case at all, for the context also states:

John 6:47, 50-51, 53-54
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. ...
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. ...
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

If the philosophy that claims only God can give to unbelievers the ability to eat His flesh and drink His Blood, then Jesus is indeed contradictory.

Bottom line is that only those whom the Father drew could become a part of His following of disciples/apostles, because we also have this within that same context:

John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

See that? So, misunderstandings do indeed cause many to misrepresent what scripture is saying in many key places, which leads to confusions and, as you stated, thinking that God is in error.

Good point.

MM

Agreed. Context is everything in rightly divining God's word.

Terms like, all,everyone,the world,etc...
When we consider the groundwork of Election by God's decree,only those whom He calls,leads,to Himself through Holy Spirit intercession upon our dead to the things of God human nature, can we then understand the things of God and receive His grace gift.

Therein, all, everyone,the world (of His Elect), apply in relationship to Election.

So we pick and choose to fit a RCC theology? All means all the elect, but in some cases all means all. Got it.

You addressed the wrong poster. I never stated anything even remotely related to the Roman Catholic Church.

The RCC is the home base of Calvinism, aka fatalism.

Calvanism!

Man! If this thread contained a cash wager as in another thread I could have made some money! lol

My apologies. The words all, the whole world, everyone, etc. are never used to address some elect group.

There was a time, in my more ignorant past, where I believed that one could lose his salvation. Boy was I wrong, and here's why:

To point at someone, or even at self, and claim one or another had lost his or her salvation at some point in the past, or are standing in that jeopardized position at the present time, that is nothing but works-based salvation!

Some may say, "Now, wait a minute! There are many out there who have lost their salvation. Some have even regained it, and then lost it again..." On and on the claims will go by those who are actually trying to convey the idea that they are authorities over who is saved and who is not, sometimes just by looking at others or at themselves throughout the years of their own past.

What REALLY do they know about anything having to do with salvation if it is a thing that can so easily be lost, which leads to no other conclusion than the idea that Holy Spirit has a very weak grasp upon the saved, with many having been plucked from the Hand of Christ Jesus, which is contradictory to the scriptures.

Think about it...if anyone can lose their salvation, then retention of salvation is by the efforts of each individual rather than the perfectly finished work of Christ Jesus. That individual is claiming, then, that they still have theirs because of their own efforts, where others allegedly lost theirs by not retaining it through good works or abstinence from some measure of sin that has a line they cannot define authoritatively.

Folks, that is indeed BOASTING. That is nothing short of silently claiming that they have "worked" to abstain from walking those paths that others were, or are, walking who have allegedly lost their salvation. Do you see the dichotomy in that? Casting salvation into a mixing bowl that has any leavened ingredient of a work on our part, and the entire lump is leavened.

So, who among you has ever known anyone who allegedly ever lost their salvation, and how did you prove that, even if you're going to make yourself the target of that claim? Your feelings? Their feelings? What you saw coming out of them or yourself? Who among us no longer has any expressions of sin exuding from us each and every day? Who among us is living in sinless perfection? Who among us has no sin?

Who here can draw that line that others can see whereby crossing it would or does lead to loss of salvation?

Conversely, pointing at self or someone else, and claiming loss of salvation at some point in the past, how can we know they or you were ever saved at all in the first place to have allegedly lost it?

It's a snake eating its own proverbial tail.

Do you see the issue here?

It is either works, or it is grace. It cannot be both, for there is no power on this earth that can truly intermix them together under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

As I've said a number of times, the confusion arises because of a misunderstanding of what "save" means. There are two salvations, the first is to be born again and the second is the "salvation of the soul" (1 Peter 1:9, James 1:21). Being born again is irrevocable and eternal. How can someone be "unborn"?

If we change "salvation" to "deliverance", the meaning becomes clearer. ("Saved" has come to be Christian code for "going to heaven when you die".) We bring all kinds of baggage with us when we leave the kingdom of darkness to enter the kingdom of the Son of God's love. (Colossians 1:13). God sets about delivering us from the pride, rebellion, fear, worry, lusts and self will that hinders us all. We also need our minds renewed, otherwise the mind becomes our enemy instead of our servant.

There is much more to this, but hopefully it sheds some light on a controversial subject.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

This verse in its context means that anyone who comes to Christ will not be turned away. But OSAS people interpret it as you have.

This verse in its context means that anyone who comes to Christ will not be turned away. But OSAS people interpret it as you have.