Shroud of Turin—real or fake, and why?

Also, I have my doubts that Jesus or an angel folded the shroud and napkin. Joseph probably folded the napkin used to clean the body and laid it off to the side. The shroud was laid down, Jesus, body was laid on top of it lengthwise and then it was folded over the front of Jesus body. So it was already folded. Then when Jesus' body was transformed into a spiritual body the folded shroud simply settled in place where it lay, because a spiritual body is not subject to the laws of nature as exhibited when Jesus walked through a closed door or wall.

Well said, friend

To quote the not great Hillary Clinton...what difference does it make?
IF it is genuine, does that make your belief or faith stronger, and if so, why?
If you got to see it, would you worship it?
THIS is the main reason I do not believe God allowed any "artifacts" to survive..because people would revere them and worship them...they would take the place of Jesus, because they are HERE, and tangible...
Personally, I don't need a Shroud to convince me that Jesus died for ME...

I was impressed by the book of Genesis telling me that Noah pitched the ark within and without.

Genesis 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

Why would you pitch it within? If you want this to be waterproof and float you only need to pitch it without. Also, think of the odds that this comes to rest on a mountain top? You would think the odds would be much, much greater to come to rest in a valley or even in the Sea which is 70% of the Earth's surface. But both of those things were of God.

Because of these two things the boat was not cannibalized to build a farm and because it was pitched within and without it was preserved and didn't decay. This is why we now have found Noah's ark, conclusive proof of the account in the Bible of Noah.

Not everything is for the believers. You believe, that is great. But what about the scoffers and mockers, this is so they are without excuse. When they appear on the day of judgment they will have no defense, no excuse.

Think of all those who have rejected the Lord and mocked at His resurrection. This will be conclusive proof that they were given so that they would be without excuse.

First off, the ark has not been " found". There is a site in turkey where a football shaped geographic formation was found, but so far there is NO definitive evidence that it was the ark.
Is it your contention that God had Noah and sons pitch it inside and out, just so it would be preserved so thousands of years later, we could find it?
I have no problem with folks believing the Shroud is genuine... my problem is that it becomes a point of division, when it is simply not a salvation issue... even in this discussion, "non believers" are being denigrate, and assertions are being cast...
That is at best, silly, and more than a little bit divisive.

On the contrary Ron Wyatt did find it, they have taken samples, they found a kind of ballost stone that was used for it, and they found where Noah and His wife were buried.

As for everything else you shared it is silly and perhaps even divisive.

Dying for us is irrelevant if we do not accept Him and then go forward serving Him. Even then He teaches the day will come when some will say "did we not do wonders in your name?", to which He will say " except for that I didn't know you, you workers of iniquity", not a good thing to hear when our eternity is being determined.
I am blessed with having a received the anointing of relationship in Him and have no need of relics as well.
Some may, and He will us any means that pleases Him to draw His own to Him.
I am thankful more is being discovered about the shroud and other proofs of His love and care for we His own.
blessings

"7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. '' John 20:7-9

I started looking into this and found this. I like the guy's approach, but I'm really not interested in this subject enough to read the whole thing. But here it is if anyone is interested.

THE IDENTIFICATION AND THE DISPOSITION OF THE FUNERARY LINENS OF JESUS' BURIAL ACCORDING TO THE DATA OF THE FOURTH GOSPEL*
https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/ssi04part4.pdf

I choose to wait for our savior to return to ask him. I have learned to not speculate on such things but ask for God's guidence in all matters.

I am convinced The Shroud is real. I saw an older vdeo on it years ago where a learned team examined it thoroughly. They found pollen on it from all the areas where Jesus travelled. The 'crown' Jesus had was a cap form. They tried multiple ways of duplicating the Shroud and could not. The only kink was they tested a part of the material for age and it came up wrong, then later found out the section they tested had been replaced due to the fire where it was being kept. They tested another section and it was right on. I personally don't think the best forger could accomplish these feats of duplication. Also, I think they came to the conclusion that some tecnique they were unfamiliar with caused the imprint.

Ron Wyatt has been widely dismissed as a naive sensationalist. He is not even trained in any kind of archaeology.
He has claimed to have found the ark of the covenant, Goliath's sword, the original 10 commandments, even dried samples of Jesus' blood.

"He embarked on multiple investigations of the site, claiming to have discovered evidence that his theory was correct, including “deck timber” and “anchor stones” from the Ark. But professional scientists who joined Wyatt on some of his early inspections were not convinced by his supposed discoveries. And according to the Christian website Answers In Genesis, a laboratory that reportedly tested Wyatt’s “timber” was not able to definitively identify it as timber, much less timber from Biblical times.
Despite his lack of independently confirmed evidence, Wyatt remained adamant that the Durupinar site was indeed the landing place of Noah’s Ark. He continued to travel to the Middle East for the remainder of his life — and each time he went, he seemed to uncover something new."

OK i had to go looking..



here's "the SDA Indiana Jones" and his wife posing with a replica he made ((because he claimed he saw lots of stuff in a cave and then never went back))


... and here is what actual swords from Palestine circa 1000 BC look like ((Assyrians and Egyptians favored a sickle -shaped, curved blade)) ..




Ron Wyatt's so-called sword looks to me like pure fantasy. two pretty big tells jump out at me immediately:

1. cross guards are a much later, European thing..
2. besides the fact that an arrow-shaped barb on a sword would be pretty dang hard for bronze age people to make why in the world would you even want that? who wants to lose their sword as soon as you stab one person, because now it's stuck? nobody who has a clue about swords, that's who.

I'm skeptical, but since I just finished watching a special on it I thought I would share a few notes. First off, they DNA tested it and got mitochondrial DNA that shows the maternal line. It was Druze, not Jewish. The Druze are a tight-knit religious population that have a presence in Israel today, about 30 miles west of Nazareth. Second, they also allegedly connected a face cloth to the shroud of Turin called the Sudarium. It is possible that the Sudarium is connected to the shroud, but I'm not convinced that either of them is connected to Jesus even if they are connected to each other.

I am by no means certain, though. Something about the image on the shroud strikes me as having a stately look that is more likely to be church marketing than the actual image of the ordinary-looking savior. I also think there is a good chance it would have come up in the gospels if there was such a striking image left from the resurrection. I do wonder, though, how it was produced, but there could possibly have been some freak circumstance with another body from the time. Maybe even someone else who was resurrected in connection with Jesus' crucifixion, such as those mentioned in Matthew 27:52-53.

It is interesting if it is authentic, but really what does it matter? Most of what relics produce is spiritual snares, whereby people get into superstition and idolatry about them, thinking they imbue the possessers with special powers just like with Gideon and the gold ephod in Judges 8:27.

I would point out that the reason we do not find a single complete copy of the New Testament is because of the persecution against Christians. While apostles were alive the persecution was intense. So if it was that hard to hide a book, it must have been equally hard to hide the Shroud.

thread topic
Shroud of Turin—real or fake, and why?

The Word Shroud actually appears in Scripture and the Text is given in this video where this word appears -----it is definitely worth the listen --Folks

Real or not ==it is a mind bending ---fascinating subject to explore ----

SHOCKING Evidence That Proves The Shroud of Turin Shows The Actual FACE of Jesus!

Join us on this intellectual and spiritual journey as we explore the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin.

In this captivating video, we delve deep into the centuries-old mystery surrounding the Shroud of Turin and explore the compelling evidence supporting its authenticity.

The Shroud, believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, has intrigued researchers, historians, and believers for generations.
Join us as we examine the scientific investigations, forensic analyses, and historical context that shed light on the remarkable features of the Shroud.

From the faint image of a man's face to the intricate details of wounds consistent with crucifixion, we explore the tantalizing clues that suggest a direct connection to the life and death of Jesus.

Prepare to be fascinated by the intriguing studies and thought-provoking theories that surround this sacred relic. Discover the latest findings and expert insights that may unveil the true origin of the Shroud of Turin. Are we witnessing an extraordinary artifact from biblical times?

I tried to watch that "documentary".... which actually is mostly, from what I saw, sensationalized propaganda.... I got to the point where the "expert" stated as fact that the shroud is "the most studied archeological discovery of all time"..... which sounded wrong to me.... a quick goober search showed that the shroud actually doesn't even make the top 10 studied "finds"...
This alone would be enough to justify dismissing this whole video as promotional clap-trap... but they have also enhanced the pictures of the shroud, through "scientific technologies" to "show" wounds, bruises, etc... all to fit their narrative...

I am not saying the shroud is not real... but there is just no evidence that "proves" it... it's interesting to study, and ponder, but unless you are simply wanting to believe it, there is no evidence that would lead you conclusively to that point.

Try this vid:

I have a paperback 'The Ark ofArarat' where in one chapter an older man says he visited it. His uncle an Armenian knew the seasons well and took his nephew, George Hagopian, up Mt Ararat and located the Ark. He describes it as a petrified huge barge with windows across the top. It was split in two. He said he took his drawings of it to officials and they just confiscated them. He has not come forth with this story for publicity, which he did not want. Now Mt Ararat is unapproachable due to political restrictions. I also believe this account because it's possible and the man waited til he was older to share it without any fanfare. Could be this story is being held at bay bc it would prove God is real.