The topic of doctrine

There is something that I just cannot get out of my head that being doctrine or rather my distain for it or rather what it has done to the church. Sound doctrine in it's purest form is God's word abd there will come a time and is here even now when many will not endure sound doctrine but it just keeps nagging me that truth sound doctrine and the correct understanding is just all over the place within the body of Christ. all the denominations all the doctrines within those denominations the vastly different interpretations and understanding how one can read the scriptures while another reads the same thing yet gets a different understanding of it.

So if we all have such diversity in what sound doctrine is why does that not seem to raise a red flag? why can we be so sure in our doctrine when all it seems to do is cause division are we not able to question our own beliefs to test ourselves in truth?

I was once told the best way to test if your understanding is truth try to disprove it the issue with this is if we were to whole heartedly do this it wouldn't be hard it is easy to use logic and pick apart any doctrine we come across.

so is doctrine as it is defined really as sound as we believe it to be? if there is so much division when there are many truths although there is only one truth can we honestly ask ourselves and know that the doctrine we go on here to defend or teach is the actual truth or is it just another interpretation of said truth?

how many of us are on milk when we think we are on meat? I have to test myself to see for myself if what I believe is the actual truth I am willing to admit I am wrong if it means finding the real truth but to do this it requires a heart that truly loves his word and has great respect for it it would require many hours of studying devotion and letting go of what I think I know.

if there is only one truth then why? why so much division why all the endless debates why all the different interpretations? we cannot speak on sound doctrine if we do not hold ourselves accountable

Your questions are not really difficult to answer, but hardly anybody will like the correct answers.

Here is a major part of the answer.

2Ti 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

How many people who name the name of Christ have truly denied themselves and taken up their crosses in order that they might truly follow Jesus? You had better sit down, Blain, because the correct answer to this question is not many, and that is a major problem. If people have not truly submitted to the will of God, then they shall heap to themselves teachers who will tell them what they want to hear in order to fulfill their own lusts or desires. It really is that simple, and such people have no genuine desire whatsoever for sound doctrine. In fact, they despise it as they turn away their ears from the truth.

Here are two more parts of the answer.

Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Blain, there are some who, like immature babies, refuse to be weaned from the breast, or who refuse to move from the milk of God's word to the meat of God's word. Don't hold your breath waiting for any sound doctrine from them.

Then there are those to whom everything must be precept upon precept, and this is not said in a positive sense. Instead, it is referring to those who seek justification from God's law that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. These are those who refuse the rest offered by Christ, and who refuse the refreshing of the Holy Spirit which is only attainable by the new birth. Good luck expecting any sound doctrine from them.

This next one ought to be rather self-evident in this section of the forum.

1Co 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Let all things be done unto edifying? I know that you have touched upon this before, Blain, but how much doctrine is presented here for the use of edifying? Not much from what I have seen. Instead, people beat each other over the head with it, while attempting to tear each other down, and gleefully at that. Good luck finding any sound doctrine in such people.

Anyhow, these are just some biblical answers to your questions.

I am right there with you Blain. The inability or unwillingness to strive for doctrinal unity contradicts the prayer of Jesus in JN 17.
This is why I started the Kerygma thread and post the kerygma all over the place when barely appropriate, and I am happy that no one has complained about me trying to get us to agree on that creed, then agree to disagree about secondary doctrines as we keep on trying to harmonize Scriptures that seem to support diverse views. :^)

I am glad I am not alone in this thank you both for your responces

where is this thread i can check it out

Who was Jesus praying for?

Jhn 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jhn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jhn 17:13
And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Jhn 17:14
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Jhn 17:16
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Jhn 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jhn 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Jhn 17:20
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Is it possible that those who will be sanctified by the truth are those who have met the prerequisite of being hated by the world because they are not of the world even as Jesus is not of the world?

Is it possible that those who will be sanctified by the truth are those who have been sent to sacrificially lay their lives down for the gospel's sake even as Jesus was sent to do the same?

If so, then how many people who name the name of Christ, whether on this forum or elsewhere, are truly not of this world?

If so, then how many people who name the name of Christ, whether on this forum or elsewhere, are truly laying their lives down for the gospel's sake?

Methinks that this might be yet another reason for the lack of sound doctrine in much of what calls itself Christianity today. In other words, if people are not truly interested in living out their lives as ambassadors for Christ, or if people are not truly interested in occupying until Christ returns, then why should we even consider that they know what the kingdom of God is truly all about?

Meditate upon the Three Holy Creeds for they are the sound doctrines and identify all real Christianity from the cheap imitations that stray from the Holy Creeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles'_Creed

Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of the saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the substance of the Father.
God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.
Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, became human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.
He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the uncreate and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, the prophets, and the Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.
We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism with repentance for the remission and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, in the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed#

Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

What is the subject? The one baptism that saves? Is it water that saves us?

Whether or not man's will is free when it is taken captive to the will of the devil?

If we are or if we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath as some here claim we are even though it is impossible?


1 Corinthians 11:19

At this time it is being pushed down page 2 of this Bible Discussion forum.
The complete name is The Kerygma: God's Requirement for Salvation.
However, if you want to see what I say as one document, you can find it in Lesson Two
of my website <truthseekersfellowship.com> and then feel free to cut and paste to CC for discussion
either on this thread or on The Kerygma thread.
Happy New Year!

I would venture to say your disdain is not for doctrine but theology. Sound teaching comes from God and His word; theology is man's systems of interpretations which he overlays on God's word. Theology is usually what people try to defend to the death; at their own peril. Pure teaching from God teaches us the way of peace and love.

Sound teaching from God focuses on what's important; man's theology typically focuses in on things that aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things and makes them matters of tremendous importance.

Let's start with why there are doctrinal differences. A man at my church asked God why He allows doctrinal differences. God answered that He allows doctrinal differences to test people when their false beliefs are found out.

This makes sense in light of something God said another time, that what He cares about isn't doctrine but commitment and purity. Really, truth is a gift that God gives us as He wills, and at the rate He can. Why should God judge a person for not yet having something that is up to Him to provide? If, however, someone is genuinely committed to God and purity, they will get there eventually even if it isn't in this life.

Let's also remember what it says in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2 about the wisdom of God being different from the wisdom of the world. Truth isn't something we figure out by our intellect alone, but by God's revelation. 1 Cor. 2:9-10 says:

...as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[b]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

no theology is simply the study of God's word what I distain is how people use his word and proclaim doctrine as truth yet it doesn't bring people closer to God it doesn't edify or change anyones heart it just turns into a I am right and you are not kind of thing.

I like this explanation

There's a word for that.

Pride.

Yes. theology is the study of God's word, but it's a scholarly approach, not spiritual. What do you think all those thousands of commentaries and books about God's word contain? What do you think all the seminaries and Bible colleges are teaching? When people get an ingrained theology in their head, that's when they start proclaiming it as absolute truth and defend it to the death (usually their opponent's). A clear understanding of God's doctrine doesn't do that.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your Word is Truth.

Good points

I am surprised you agree given all his ingrained theology that has propelled
him proclaiming it as absolute truth and defending it to the death .

Like him saying pointing out false teachers means exactly diddly when he does it so much.

Or fighting tooth and nail against anyone who liked the series The Chosen
when it was changing many people's minds about Who Jesus is.

And all he has said against you, ostensibly due to his theology.
My goodness. A book could be written on that alone.

yes I have not forgotton all of that but he did make a few good points and at least he is discussing things instead of the usual

But I have to treat everyone with the same respect if they are willing to discuss things