Why do some people believe and some do not?

1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Apparently after thousands of years and hundreds of pages of this debate, there is no debate at all.

The self-proclaimed expert in another ongoing thread also says there is no point speculating on why
some are and some are not saved after speculating on the question for months on end. How odd.

Ah, well, this is part of why it is mostly pointless engaging such people: the level of dishonesty is too high.

The number of Scriptures they outright deny is also very high. Another reason to question their integrity.

related - -

That verse alone ought to inform people that the doctrine of election has nothing to do with God choosing some for salvation.

well to be fair someone could say it shows double predestination too, because all 12 were chosen, 11 to life and 1 to destruction.

but what i think is cool here is that Christ has chosen them - while in John 17 we have the same people described as given to Him by the Father. so having been chosen by Jesus is equivalent to having been chosen by God to give to Him - - therefore Christ is God, He who chooses.

Now you have raised the very issue non Calvinists have with double predestination. God says we are condemned for unbelief but it's His fault if He is responsible for our believing.

God is either unpredictable in His salvation methods or He is as His word and saves believers only which means election has nothing to do with choosing to save people but rather is God choosing what to do with people, saved or not.

ps You will never convince me Judas Iscariot was given to Christ, so your argument falls apart as far as I'm concerned.

Lament for Jerusalem:

"You will be ever hearing, but never understanding,
You will be ever seeing, but never perceiving,
For this people's heart has become calloused;
They hardly hear with their ears,
And they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And turn, and I would heal them."

(Matthew 13:14-15, quoting Isaiah 6:9-10)

"You will be ever hearing, but never understanding,
You will be ever seeing, but never perceiving,
For this people's heart has become calloused;
They hardly hear with their ears,
And they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And turn, and I would heal them."

(Acts 28:26-27, quoting Isaiah 6:9-10, cf. Matthew 23:37)

Tell me boss

Because they are fools, but why they are foolish remains a mystery to me!

(and to Jesus and Paul per them quoting IS 6:9-10 in frustration with fools)

Oh but you CAN.....FREELY CHOOSE to jump out a window.
Oh yes you can. Right now. Today.

What you CANNOT do is bend the laws of creation. Even IF you were WILLING TO IT.
In fact wicked men are WILLING to do a lot of things that God does not allow.

So what you propose is a false dichotomy.

Totally agree. Judas CHOSE his path. And Jesus said so.

Jesus gave Judas a CHOICE......RIGHT HERE MAN. A last second OPPORTUNITY to change his mind.
Judas REFUSED (of his own FREE WILL) the sop of honor and fellowship!

[Jhn 13:26 KJV]
Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [it]. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave [it] to Judas Iscariot, [the son] of Simon.

[Jhn 13:27 KJV]
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

==============================================================

Be advised: Calvinite dogma is junk theology and belongs in the dumpster.

yes showing that "free will" is not completely "free" - - nature constrains it.

Exercising one's will within limits is not freewill. Freewill would be having the ability to exercise one's will without any hindrance or limitation. Read James 4:13-16.

Oh it goes much deeper and is much worse than some trivial artifact of supposed incongruity.

All of this wrongly labeled "predestination" Calvinite nonsense is in fact a phenomenon
where the LIES OF SATAN (that which he used to deceive the Woman and fallen angels) are being REPEATED.
Right now. In the Church today.

This Satanic lies (partially) being: that Holy God is the author of evil, the creator of evil, creates beings evil thereby causing them to fall, and then UNJUSTLY casts them into the lake of fire far beyond their CHOOSING and without any recourse whatsoever.

Here you go: the Five Fold lies of Satan. Do yourself a big favor and hear it.
And then spend another 24 hours of hearing similar lectures to nail down all of the details.

The 5 Fold Lies of Satan. FF to about 50 mins onward for an introduction.
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/9101132540/

Obviously we are not free to change our sex or to fly by flapping our arms! But such limitations do not prevent us from having sufficient volition to seek God and be saved. PTL!

Disagree.

The WILLINGNESS is totally free with no upper limit.
It is the REALIZATION of this WILLFUL desire is that upon which God imposes limits.

This is not true according to the Bible. I know that many examples have been shown to you how the will of man is hindered in seeking God. You simply refuse to acknowledge them.

so why does it "not depend on man's desire or effort" ((Rom. 9:16))?

you've got the effort part explained, but what about the desire ((will)) part?

Romans 9 is the most misinterpreted chapter in all of the Bible.
And DEFINITELY does NOT mean what the Calvinites IMPOSE upon it.

You best turn to Chronister on this chapter buddy.
He gets it, he nails it, he DEFINITY has it right.

I cannot spend 12 hours on this message board doing what Chronister has already done.