Israel's Final Deliverance

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randyk

randyk

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There is not much doubt in my mind that the following prophecy has to do with the time of Israel's final deliverance. Can you imagine a prophecy 2500 years old applying to our own time? It seems unimaginable, and yet it appears to be true!

Zech 12.1 A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

6 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

7 “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Iran, since the 70s, took a decided turn towards Islamic theocratic rule, taking the American embassy hostage. It was a turn against the Christian West and the US in particular, resenting the US profiting from their oil (the US provided the technology for oil development). Since that time Iran has become overtly hostile towards the US and the West, particularly incensed due to their support of Israel as a Jewish State. Iran has wanted to be the dominant player in the Middle East, with Jewish and Christian sects to be reduced to small, impotent minorities in the region.

Iran has lately been using various proxies in their battle against Israel--Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthis in Yemen, Syria, and the Palestinian Authority.

Today, Israel has been successfully battling back against all of these, including Iran--all except, perhaps, the Houthis in Yemen. However, the following news article indicates that Yemen is now paying a price, along with all of the others who surround Israel.

Netanyahu, who the international criminal court in the UN has been found to be a criminal, liable to being arrested, has said that "whoever attacks Israel will be injured." Sounds like even though the nations of the world are hostile to Israel, still this tiny ethnic state in the Middle East is successfully causing injury to those who wish to unsettle them and divide Jerusalem, rendering the Jewish people impotent, weak, and oppressed?

From https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=aa5a1895e8384c1e9ecfc6498badfaee&ei=27

"“After Hamas, Hezbollah and the Assad regime in Syria, the Houthis are almost the last remaining arm of Iran’s axis of evil,” said Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a statement released Thursday. “They are learning and they will learn the hard way, that whoever harms Israel pays a very heavy price for it.”
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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Why do you apply that prophecy to the current time instead of 1000 years after the lord returns, where it is explicitly written that all nations will gather against Jerusalem?

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Revelation 20:7-9​
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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btw, all nations of the earth are not gathered together against Jerusalem at the present time, not even close
 
randyk

randyk

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Why do you apply that prophecy to the current time instead of 1000 years after the lord returns, where it is explicitly written that all nations will gather against Jerusalem?

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Revelation 20:7-9​
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Yes, you have a point, and I've wondered about the Gog prophecy as well, which many people apply to the 2nd Coming and it is obviously applicable after the thousand years, as well! So, sometimes I think prophecy repeats itself. In the case of the Gog prophecy, I do think it will take place both at the 2nd Coming and after the Millennium.

In the case of Zech 12, this is talking of Israel's Messianic deliverance, and I think that takes place at the 2nd Coming.
 
M

montana123

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Why do you apply that prophecy to the current time instead of 1000 years after the lord returns, where it is explicitly written that all nations will gather against Jerusalem?

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Revelation 20:7-9​
Click to expand...

They will be gathered together against Jerusalem before the 1000 years which is the battle of Armageddon when God puts down all nations.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:

and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The LORD resurrects the saints, and then the wrath of God is poured on the earth leading up to the battle of Armageddon, and then Jesus comes back with the saints and defeats the world and saves Israel.

This can only happen before the 1000 years for the saints would not come back at the end for they are on the earth for the 1000 years.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Also the heathen would not be able take over half the city of Jerusalem if it was at the end of the 1000 years for they only surround the city.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

This is when Jesus takes over the earth at the beginning of the 1000 years.

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Also Jesus will destroy the heathen with the brightness of His coming but at the end of the 1000 years the punishment is fire reigned down from heaven devouring them.

Also at the end of the 1000 years the heathen are devoured and continue no more for it is the end of the millennial reign of Christ.

But here we see the heathen have to go up year after year to worship Jesus at Jerusalem which can only start at the beginning of the 1000 years not after the 1000 years.

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is part of the wrath of God which the devils deceive the kings of the earth and of the whole world to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty so all the world is together which can only happen before the 1000 years.

And it has to be in Israel, and against Israel, which God turned Israel as a nation to the truth by 2 witnesses and that is why the world attacks them.

Which God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jacob back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore.

Which the New Age Christ/ antichrist will negotiate peace in the Middle East resulting in a peace treaty for 7 years and it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will see to it.

Also God is going to allow the world to go against the truth for 7 years then He put down all authority, power, and rule of the Gentile nations.

So He has to allow the world to go against Israel for if they did not then how did they go against the truth.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head.

Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

The same thing all nations against Israel, the saints come back, and God saves Israel, and they continue on which happens before the 1000 years.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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montana123 said:
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
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Many think this prophecy foretells Jerusalemites fleeing east through a split Mt of Olives to Azal. However, there's a problem with this interpretation because Azal is due south of old Jerusalem, not east of it.

Azal is Nahal Azal in the map of Jerusalem below (nahal means stream or valley). The 2nd map shows the Mt of Olives due east of the temple mount and Azal due south of it. The hill called Jabel Mukaber that forms the south side of Azal Valley is called Mount Azal in Jerusalem.

So people fleeing east to Azal makes no sense, which brings the accuracy of Masoretic Text versions of Zechariah 14:5 into question. The Septuagint has a different version of Zechariah 14:5 that doesn't have this issue because it doesn't mention people fleeing. But it does mention a landslide blocking up the valley between Abu Tor and Jabal Batin Alhawa all the way to Azal, and there is geologic and photographic evidence showing that this has happened

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randyk

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
btw, all nations of the earth are not gathered together against Jerusalem at the present time, not even close
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As I indicated, the UN, a gathering of all nations, has put in motion an international court, which has condemned Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel. The UN has also condemned Israel in the matter of their assault upon Gaza, settler expansion, and many other matters.

In sum, the UN, as a majority, wishes to impose a solution to the Palestinian problem by dividing Israel up into 2 states, thus rendering Israel impotent and unable to resist the encroachment of Islam. This would end the "Jewish State."

UN workers have also been found to be helping the terrorists employ their devious tactics against Israel. This may not be a military mobilization by all nations, such as armies from all nations. But it appears to be heading that way. And that may be what Zechariah is hinting at.

Quite literally, there has been a "gathering of nations" against Israel, spearheaded by Iran, using a number of proxies. And the UN appears to in effect "look the other way." Any condemnation of the terrorists, by the UN, ends up feeding them and supplying them with the time and means to begin another attack later.

Other countries of significance have support Iran in their anti-Israel efforts. This gathering against Israel is indeed by all nations, to some degree. Even a major party in the US appears to support the anti-Zionists.
 
G

GWH

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montana123 said:
They will be gathered together against Jerusalem before the 1000 years which is the battle of Armageddon when God puts down all nations.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:

and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The LORD resurrects the saints, and then the wrath of God is poured on the earth leading up to the battle of Armageddon, and then Jesus comes back with the saints and defeats the world and saves Israel.

This can only happen before the 1000 years for the saints would not come back at the end for they are on the earth for the 1000 years.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Also the heathen would not be able take over half the city of Jerusalem if it was at the end of the 1000 years for they only surround the city.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

This is when Jesus takes over the earth at the beginning of the 1000 years.

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Also Jesus will destroy the heathen with the brightness of His coming but at the end of the 1000 years the punishment is fire reigned down from heaven devouring them.

Also at the end of the 1000 years the heathen are devoured and continue no more for it is the end of the millennial reign of Christ.

But here we see the heathen have to go up year after year to worship Jesus at Jerusalem which can only start at the beginning of the 1000 years not after the 1000 years.

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is part of the wrath of God which the devils deceive the kings of the earth and of the whole world to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty so all the world is together which can only happen before the 1000 years.

And it has to be in Israel, and against Israel, which God turned Israel as a nation to the truth by 2 witnesses and that is why the world attacks them.

Which God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jacob back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore.

Which the New Age Christ/ antichrist will negotiate peace in the Middle East resulting in a peace treaty for 7 years and it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will see to it.

Also God is going to allow the world to go against the truth for 7 years then He put down all authority, power, and rule of the Gentile nations.

So He has to allow the world to go against Israel for if they did not then how did they go against the truth.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head.

Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

The same thing all nations against Israel, the saints come back, and God saves Israel, and they continue on which happens before the 1000 years.
Click to expand...
While all of this may be interesting to some (it makes my eyes glaze over :^), it should be noted that the saints ARE spiritual Jews/Israel per Paul in RM 2:28-29 & 4:16-18, which means the political events involving physical Israel are of secondary importance.
 
Hakawaka

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
btw, all nations of the earth are not gathered together against Jerusalem at the present time, not even close
Click to expand...
Because all nations does not have to mean every single nation on the planet. And to be honest Israel only has two allies, USA and India, even those probably wont exist in the future as the new generation thats pro-palestine comes in. Everyone else always votes against them in the UN.

All often does not mean every single one in the Bible, many many examples of this. I will give a few:

Dan. 9:11, All Israel has transgressed your law and turned aside, refusing to obey your voice. <- Daniel didnt refuse to obey God's voice, just meant the people of Israel in general

2 Sam.16:22, Absalom went in to the concubines of his father before the eyes of all Israel. <- Not every single israelite saw this occuring, obviously.

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. <- Not the entire world was taxed by Ceasar, just the roman empire.

Acts 11:28
And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). <- notice, over all the world. Again in context we see this does not mean all the world, the next verse says:
"So the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brothers living in Judea." <- so they are sending in relief to the famine that hits the entire earth? Nah it was about the area they were living in.


Tons of examples like this.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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montana123 said:
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Click to expand...
I would like to slowly walk through your list in order to offer a different perspective than the futurist dispensational view.

Verses 1-2 could be referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by Antiochus Epiphanes in the 2nd century BC or by the Romans in 70 AD

Verses 3 and 4 could be referring to when Jesus walked on the Mt of Olives during his first advent in his war against sin and the powers of satan

Verse 5 was almost certainly fulfilled by a landslide on the Mt of Olives, as mentioned above

The last part of verse 5 fits better with verse 6. Since chapter/verse numberings are not in the manuscripts, but are later additions by unknown persons, we cannot assume that they always got everything right. IMO they badly skew what the authors intended sometimes
 
C

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montana123 said:
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
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Jesus was made king over all of the earth when he ascended to the throne in Acts 1

And when [Jesus] had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Acts 1:9​
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I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14​
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And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Revelation 5:6-7​
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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montana123 said:
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Click to expand...
I believe this will be when Israel is nuked at the lord's coming, so no disagreement here.
 
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montana123 said:
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Click to expand...
Obviously the millennium
 
C

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montana123 said:
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Click to expand...
Obviously at the lord's return
 
Hakawaka

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GWH said:
While all of this may be interesting to some (it makes my eyes glaze over :^), it should be noted that the saints ARE spiritual Jews/Israel per Paul in RM 2:28-29 & 4:16-18, which means the political events involving physical Israel are of secondary importance.
Click to expand...
What about Revelation 16? Zechariah 14?

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

many of these depict things happening in the land of Israel, so why is it secondary importance? How can we interpret geographical locations as symbolic?
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead

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montana123 said:
Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
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What time is Joel talking about? He's referring to what he wrote about in the previous verses

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. And on my servants and on my handmaids in those days will I pour out of my Spirit. And I will shew wonders in heaven, and upon the earth, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord come. And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved: for in mount Sion and in Jerusalem shall the saved one be as the Lord has said, and they that have good news preached to them, whom the Lord has called. Joel 2:28-32​
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Peter said this was fulfilled at Pentecost when the holy spirit was poured out on Israel and Judah

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:16-21​
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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randyk said:
As I indicated, the UN, a gathering of all nations, has put in motion an international court, which has condemned Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel. The UN has also condemned Israel in the matter of their assault upon Gaza, settler expansion, and many other matters.

In sum, the UN, as a majority, wishes to impose a solution to the Palestinian problem by dividing Israel up into 2 states, thus rendering Israel impotent and unable to resist the encroachment of Islam. This would end the "Jewish State."

UN workers have also been found to be helping the terrorists employ their devious tactics against Israel. This may not be a military mobilization by all nations, such as armies from all nations. But it appears to be heading that way. And that may be what Zechariah is hinting at.

Quite literally, there has been a "gathering of nations" against Israel, spearheaded by Iran, using a number of proxies. And the UN appears to in effect "look the other way." Any condemnation of the terrorists, by the UN, ends up feeding them and supplying them with the time and means to begin another attack later.

Other countries of significance have support Iran in their anti-Israel efforts. This gathering against Israel is indeed by all nations, to some degree. Even a major party in the US appears to support the anti-Zionists.
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Even Israel is against Israel. They have been since Christ.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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Hakawaka said:
What about Revelation 16? Zechariah 14?

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

many of these depict things happening in the land of Israel, so why is it secondary importance? How can we interpret geographical locations as symbolic?
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There's a lot to unpack in that passage. I know people have different views of scripture, especially Revelation. There are several rules to which I adhere when reading such a prophetic book. One is: In a particular area, if most of the verses are allegorical then the entire passage is likely allegorical. Unless we are told, the Spirit does not flip flop from allegory to actual within the same passage.

So, in the passage above, we see the Euphrates river. John would have known this river and the importance of it. It provided water to people and crops, allowed for trade and commerce between nations, and was essential to regional life as he knew it. Today, we know it as one of the waterways that established the "cradle of life" so its importance stretched even into our day.

Then, in the next verse we see frogs, a dragon, and a beast. This is allegory. Sure, they denote actual things (like the Euphrates) but the references are to their meanings as they relate to the end of the age. So, the Euphrates, too, relates to the end of the age.

The drying up of the waters of the Euphrates is emblematic of the drying up of revelation and insight. This will be (and currently is) a famine of the word of God. They also represent the removal of restraint (also prophesied and what we are currently experiencing) because it restrained "the kings" until it is dried up. At one time, even the unbelievers saw some wisdom in the way of God and His people. This speaks of a time when the people reject the ways of God and His people whole-sale. And so, they are given over to their unrestrained imaginations.

In the whole picture, this is It is Satan in consort with his offspring, the beast, and his enabler, that little horn that speaks blasphemous things against God and against the dwellers of heaven. This is a religious figure who has led astray anyone who is seeking God and lives by the water of life, the Holy Spirit.
 
randyk

randyk

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#20
Aaron56 said:
Even Israel is against Israel. They have been since Christ.
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That makes no sense. I may say that certain political parties in the U.S. are opposed to the current state of the Constitution. But that doesn't mean they are against the U.S. Those who choose to live in a particular country obviously support that country unless they are embedded spies and deviants.
 
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