The Author and Date of The Book of Job

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright...

The word "perfect" here is tamim. Meaning moral, pious, without blemish, having integrity etc..

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created...
Speaking of Lucifer 👆

Same word...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
I see what you're saying, trials do bring true believers closer to God. However, all things considered, it's simply not the case here.

As mentioned previously, read Elihu's words-Job 32,33 onward through God's rebuke and Job's response...
You don't believe Job already had faith. His first response to the trial was worship, he makes a declaration of faith in 13:15 and again in 19:25. He sounds pretty solid to me.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
You don't believe Job already had faith.
All things considered, nope. Just read Job's response, he says it himself...

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord, and said, 2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. 3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. 4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
All things considered, nope.

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord, and said, 2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. 3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. 4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Someone who professes that even if God kills him he will trust Him and knows that his Redeemer lives long before the cross doesn't possess faith?
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,211
384
83
All things considered, nope.

I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
This is no different than some of the prophets who saw Christ in spirit and wrote of him, but became completely undone when they actually saw God. I'm pretty sure you have never seen God as they did, yet you act like you're qualified to be their judge.

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Isaiah 6:5
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
From past experience, anytime I see someone use the word 'lens' I know I'm dealing with someone who is in error
Someone who professes that even if God kills him he will trust Him and knows that his Redeemer lives long before the cross doesn't possess faith?
Professing believers say a lot of things but we'll know them by their fruit right?

Now let me ask some questions if I may-not for you to answer me but, for you to answer yourself. Have I said anything derogatory or heretical towards God, the scripture etcetera? Or did I simply state my view, and from the beginning advise y'all not to take my word for it but to go read it for yourselves? So why the hostility @ChristRoseFromTheDead seems you're prowling around looking for a fight 🦁
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,211
384
83
So why the hostility @ChristRoseFromTheDead seems you're prowling around looking for a fight
You came acting like a know-it-all and I'm just putting you in your place. My only hostility is towards falsehood. Gird up your loins like a man (Job 38:3, 40:7) and receive correction so you can come to saving faith like Job :cool:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
Professing believers say a lot of things but we'll know them by their fruit right?

Now let me ask some questions if I may-not for you to answer me but, for you to answer yourself. Have I said anything derogatory or heretical towards God, the scripture etcetera? Or did I simply state my view, and from the beginning advise y'all not to take my word for it but to go read it for yourselves? So why the hostility @ChristRoseFromTheDead seems you're prowling around looking for a fight 🦁
I simply disagree with your take.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
I simply disagree with your take.
Professing believers say a lot of things but we'll know them by their fruit right? 👈This alone was my response to you, sorry it was lumped in with my response to the other guy.
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,211
384
83
However, through the correct lens, we see a story of how hard it is for a rich, religious man to come to saving faith and the holy lengths God will go through to keep one of his.
btw just because someone is rich doesn't mean they don't have saving faith or is not godly. Abraham, the father of our faith, was extremely wealthy and had over 300 servants. So what Jesus said about rich men and the kingdom of God pertains to those who trust in their wealth above God.

And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold. Genesis 13:2​
And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. Genesis 14:14
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
702
447
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
You don't believe Job already had faith. His first response to the trial was worship, he makes a declaration of faith in 13:15 and again in 19:25. He sounds pretty solid to me.
The Lord loved Job and called him His "...servant...that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil" (Job 1: 8). At the end of his fiery trial after Job had repented (42: 5-6), God refers to Job as his "servant" once again (42: 7).

With the awful suffering he had to endure, is it any wonder that he would complain and ask God why he had been forsaken given the effort he made to live an "upright" life? I know that during some of my darkest hours, I have expressed anger and questioned God on why He allows suffering and anguish in our lives. That's being human, and God in His grace understands.

Yes, Job is rock solid in my eyes, too.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
The Lord loved Job and called him His "...servant...that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil" (Job 1: 8). At the end of his fiery trial after Job had repented (42: 5-6), God refers to Job as his "servant" once again (42: 7).

With the awful suffering he had to endure, is it any wonder that he would complain and ask God why he had been forsaken given the effort he made to live an "upright" life? I know that during some of my darkest hours, I have expressed anger and questioned God on why He allows suffering and anguish in our lives. That's being human, and God in His grace understands.

Yes, Job is rock solid in my eyes, too.
Hey brother. We haven't chatted in awhile. Hope you and yours are well and blessed. I concur with your assessment.
 

tttallison

Active member
Sep 20, 2024
338
41
28
84
SW Florida
As I continue my journey through this remarkable book, I love the mystery surrounding the authorship and composition date.

As a Christian literary scholar, the Book of Job is in the same realm of the great classics of ancient literature, and I would argue it is at the top of the list with the rest of the Old Testament because it is God's Word and revelation to humanity. The Bible is the most important literary gift God has blessed us with by far.

Hardcore scholars have a tough time pinning The Book of Job down to an agreed upon date. The best guess they can somewhat agree upon is somewhere between the 2nd and 7th centuries B.C. According to Halley's Bible Handbook, "Ancient Jewish tradition ascribed the book to Moses." Wow, that would double the date estimated by scholars! I really like Halley's conclusion on the matter: "Modern Critics assign a much later date to the book of Job [than the time of Moses], but in the end it is the content of the book that is important, not our speculative guesses about its origins." Sorry Mr. Halley, I do have to speculate a little (fun to do so, but not a matter of salvation of course...:D).

The idea of the character of Job being an ancient story about an actual person that dates back to Moses or even earlier is intriguing. I also find merits in the actual written composition of the story taking place in that 2nd-7th century period due to the sophistication of the poetry/prose. It reminds me so much of reading the great classical dramas and poetry of that era.

In the midst of Job's deepest sorrows and suffering, the level of faith and prophetic insight he expresses is incredible. The author(s) appear to have had access and inspiration to a vast theological and literary library that implies to me having at the minimum the law, the prophets, and most of the writings composed in the Old Testament. The prose/poetry has a level of sophistication that reminds me of the Greek golden era of the classics (~300 B.C.).

The verse below is a great example and one of the best known and quoted from this book:

For I Know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God. (Job 19: 25-26)

This is a blaring reference to Christ's return and the resurrection of the dead, which the prophets and psalmists are only given glimpses of in Old Testament times. The Book of Ezekiel (~565 - 593 B.C.) gives a concrete description of a resurrection (see Ezekiel 37 as an example). The Book of Job wrestles with Old Testament teachings as a whole to glean new insights into our relationship with God, and it nicely sets the stage for New Testament teachings based on the solid foundation of our Rock, Jesus Christ!
The author is Elihu and the date is sometime after Babylon conquered Israel, and yes Job was not saved until the end of the book.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,618
113
What manuscript was this taken from if you don't mind my asking? The reason I ask is because James Ussher ascribed a date of 1656 AM----2348 BC
The Pre-rabbi Akiva (pre-Masoretic) bible.
Which would be the LXX (and others) which manuscripts were often quoted by the NT writers.
Because you see, the LXX Greek was THE BIBLE at the time of Paul.
But there were "proto-Hebrew" manuscripts as well that were in common use.

There was no corrupted Masoretic to deal with.
 

tttallison

Active member
Sep 20, 2024
338
41
28
84
SW Florida
The Pre-rabbi Akiva (pre-Masoretic) bible.
Which would be the LXX (and others) which manuscripts were often quoted by the NT writers.
Because you see, the LXX Greek was THE BIBLE at the time of Paul.
But there were "proto-Hebrew" manuscripts as well that were in common use.

There was no corrupted Masoretic to deal with.
Do we have a copy of that text, the Septuagint, or has it disappeared?