I apologize thats not my intention. Eaven still for it to be a church it can't just say bible. It needs a confession of faith or creed. If its non denominational then take a look at your pastors school. It would seem to be more presbyterian or baptist from what your telling me. If its southern baptist then be careful their really losing their way at the moment.
How non believers may view Christian's.
- Thread starter Nufan
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No, nothing like Southern Baptist.
Although my aunt Diane goes to a Southern Baptist Church that keeps edging closer toward Pentecostal. I'm not going to mention that to them though... Shhhh! Just let it happen. =^.^=
If you must have a corporate name, we are affiliated with United Pentecostal Church international. But that is not a denomination. It is more of a pastor's association.
As for where the pastor went to school, which you keep harping on, if you read the Bible it doesn't matter. You will know if the pastor is wrong. Our pastor hasn't crossed the Bible yet.
Although my aunt Diane goes to a Southern Baptist Church that keeps edging closer toward Pentecostal. I'm not going to mention that to them though... Shhhh! Just let it happen. =^.^=
If you must have a corporate name, we are affiliated with United Pentecostal Church international. But that is not a denomination. It is more of a pastor's association.
As for where the pastor went to school, which you keep harping on, if you read the Bible it doesn't matter. You will know if the pastor is wrong. Our pastor hasn't crossed the Bible yet.
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Precious friend, @Nufan, I will pray for you on your journey:
So the topic changed from "how non-believers view christians" into:
I should now "rely on earthly organizations" for my spiritual guidance and help"?
Scripture Has, in light of The Judgment Day (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV):
Thus, God Plainly And Clearly Teaches believers That Scripture Is our Final Authority In
all matters faith and practice ( not the teachings of earthly organizations ).
Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love!
Amen.
Does your organization ( mine didn't ) "teach" you the following?:
Basic Distinctions Between Prophecy and Mystery!
And, Amen.
So the topic changed from "how non-believers view christians" into:
I should now "rely on earthly organizations" for my spiritual guidance and help"?
Scripture Has, in light of The Judgment Day (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV):
"In The Day when God Shall Judge the secrets of men
By Jesus Christ According To my Gospel ( Of Grace )."
(Romans 2:16 cp "every one of us himself" Romans 14:12 AV)
"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom
teacheth, but which The Holy Ghost Teacheth; comparing spiritual
things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:13 AV)
"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to
myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us
not to think above That Which Is Written,
that no one of you be puffed up for one against another"
(1 Corinthians 4:6 AV)
Handling The Word Of Life!Thus, God Plainly And Clearly Teaches believers That Scripture Is our Final Authority In
all matters faith and practice ( not the teachings of earthly organizations ).
Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love!
Amen.
Does your organization ( mine didn't ) "teach" you the following?:
Basic Distinctions Between Prophecy and Mystery!
And, Amen.
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OK, no worries. I wasn't intentionally trying to misspell. I was at work and yes stupid auto correct, I'm not the greatest speller anyways, but the reason why I keep harping on it is because that institution has taught hired your pastor and given him a platform to teach at your church. Therefore, he must advertise for them and promote the agenda belifs to some degree or he will lose his job. So although that may not be the main focus at the church, which I think it's great. His main focus is on the Bible. He doesn't seem to contradict the Bible. That's great for knowledge. It's great for insight. It's great for some guidance. Just really try to look for Substance. Personally I found it difficult to find substance unless a community through relationship with each other produced this substance. To bring it into the environment and to help develop it in each other. This cannot be relied on just threw the Bible or your pastor. You have to do something with it. I'm assuming he's probably reformed.Which is gonna draw a little bit more from John Calvin and I actually do like the presbyterians. I do like reformed Baptist, I like their sermons.I like their in depth study on the bible. I'm not trying to bash or put down any religion. I just would like to encourage people to do their research and to look into history and look into the early church fathers, look into the origin of Jesus Christ and the apostles. And apostolic succession. I appreciate where you're at and what you're doing and that you have a love for the Bible and you have a sense of community and you have a pastor that is helping you in life. It's important to have that. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a lot of people that come on here don't have community. A bunch of lone wolfs. Its sad and I pray for them. See I also I found a community and I'm very happy where I'm at. A lot of people seem to have an issue with that.
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Sometimes I could wish our pastor had LESS substance. He gets too close to my toes sometimes. Of course that only happens when my toes are not on the path they should be on, but it can be doggone uncomfortable anyway.
Last Wednesday, for example. I was dealing with something just earlier that day, and his message Wednesday night was very uncomfortable considering the situation I was dealing with. But I wound up thanking him for it.
No I am definitely not saying what the situation was here in an open forum.
Last Wednesday, for example. I was dealing with something just earlier that day, and his message Wednesday night was very uncomfortable considering the situation I was dealing with. But I wound up thanking him for it.
No I am definitely not saying what the situation was here in an open forum.
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The message I sent him Friday, after my toes had healed a bit.
No he didn't know anything about my situation. Good preachers usually don't know who they're preaching to. There's no profit for God or the people hearing the message for the preacher to know who it's for, so God seems to have a habit of not telling the preacher who he's talking to. But the sermon sure was on point.
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@Nufan you say a lot of true things but others like Daisy say a lot of true things too.
Especially knowing that even the apostles themselves had different personalities which is what Daisy said.
I realize that you want to show people a new path, but people are not convinced sometimes even with a miracle. Nevermind if you try to talk to them in real life or even the internet.
What's important is to take what's edifying for you in every group or church, including the internet.
In this internet community, i also also learned edifying messages from a few members while not arguing about the rest. Because what is there to gain by arguing besides a waste of time?
Some members are interesting to talk to and others are 'lone wolfs' like you said.
But despite all of this, you have to respect everyone's journey and free-will, including the Calvinists.
Because sometimes even a Calvinist or a Mormon says something that's interesting to listen to and learn something.
This is also tied to the concept of forgiveness and grace and humility which are points that you mentioned earlier and in the orthodox church are tied to the concept of Salvation which in itself is non-jugmental.
This is why you need to let people walk their path.
From what i understand, the Catholic Church has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths in the West so they have a 'hate' for anything Catholic so you have to put that into perspective as well.
What's important is for you to stay happy and in peace in your path and i'm happy you chose the Orthodox Church which has been continuing its message in an unbroken chain since the time of the apostles.
Also, look what they found : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14196889/silver-amulet-Germany-Christianity.html
Christianity spread in the Germany region at around year 250!
These were the first or second generation of the followers of the apostles and Christ themselves (they mention Titus in there) who spread Christianity (before there was even a Creed or a NT Bible)
So it's important to know history and i value that myself, but you also need to allow for free will. People learn by doing a lot of times, not by hearing.
Especially knowing that even the apostles themselves had different personalities which is what Daisy said.
I realize that you want to show people a new path, but people are not convinced sometimes even with a miracle. Nevermind if you try to talk to them in real life or even the internet.
What's important is to take what's edifying for you in every group or church, including the internet.
In this internet community, i also also learned edifying messages from a few members while not arguing about the rest. Because what is there to gain by arguing besides a waste of time?
Some members are interesting to talk to and others are 'lone wolfs' like you said.
But despite all of this, you have to respect everyone's journey and free-will, including the Calvinists.
Because sometimes even a Calvinist or a Mormon says something that's interesting to listen to and learn something.
This is also tied to the concept of forgiveness and grace and humility which are points that you mentioned earlier and in the orthodox church are tied to the concept of Salvation which in itself is non-jugmental.
This is why you need to let people walk their path.
From what i understand, the Catholic Church has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths in the West so they have a 'hate' for anything Catholic so you have to put that into perspective as well.
What's important is for you to stay happy and in peace in your path and i'm happy you chose the Orthodox Church which has been continuing its message in an unbroken chain since the time of the apostles.
Also, look what they found : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14196889/silver-amulet-Germany-Christianity.html
Christianity spread in the Germany region at around year 250!
These were the first or second generation of the followers of the apostles and Christ themselves (they mention Titus in there) who spread Christianity (before there was even a Creed or a NT Bible)
So it's important to know history and i value that myself, but you also need to allow for free will. People learn by doing a lot of times, not by hearing.
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First, definitions.
"FAITH: IS NOT -
A "Belief"
A System of belief
A Denominational system
A religio/political "Church Corporation"
FAITH is Biblically defined at Heb 11:1 as possessing two necessary attributes: it must be SUBSTANTIVE, and it must constitute an EVIDENCE of what you don't see (yet). the SOURCE of FAITH is according to Romans 10:17 - i.e. GOD'S WORD TO YOU.
YOU have to hold on to, and defend your "Beliefs" (Intellectual assents), but Biblical FAITH holds on to you and is its own PROOF.
The Southern Baptist Convention (or the Roman Catholic religious corporation) IS NOT a "Faith" - it's a Denominational system / religious BUSINESS.
There IS ONE genuine "Christian Church" comprised exclusively of Born Again people, whose SIN has been Cleansed, and who are indwelled by the Holy SPirit. NO VISIBLE religious system is that "One true church", but members of the ONE TRUE CHURCH can be found in most visible religious systems to varying percentages of the congregations thereof.
A CHRISTIAN is a person who has been convicted of their SIN by the holy Spirit, has repented of their SIN and been cleansed of it, has been indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and been CHANGED from a lost SINNER into a Child of God. The denomination that they subsequently affiliate with isn't part of the equation - OTHER THAN that denominations invariably are mixtures of Biblical truth, private interpretations, and outright heresies.
What unifies Genuine Christianity is the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross, FAITH in which cleanses a person from their SIN, and opens their eyes to "the kingdom of God - the spiritual realm.
There are any number of beliefs, organizations, and theological systems using the name: "Christian", but not having a CLUE what "Christian" even means.
"FAITH: IS NOT -
A "Belief"
A System of belief
A Denominational system
A religio/political "Church Corporation"
FAITH is Biblically defined at Heb 11:1 as possessing two necessary attributes: it must be SUBSTANTIVE, and it must constitute an EVIDENCE of what you don't see (yet). the SOURCE of FAITH is according to Romans 10:17 - i.e. GOD'S WORD TO YOU.
YOU have to hold on to, and defend your "Beliefs" (Intellectual assents), but Biblical FAITH holds on to you and is its own PROOF.
The Southern Baptist Convention (or the Roman Catholic religious corporation) IS NOT a "Faith" - it's a Denominational system / religious BUSINESS.
There IS ONE genuine "Christian Church" comprised exclusively of Born Again people, whose SIN has been Cleansed, and who are indwelled by the Holy SPirit. NO VISIBLE religious system is that "One true church", but members of the ONE TRUE CHURCH can be found in most visible religious systems to varying percentages of the congregations thereof.
A CHRISTIAN is a person who has been convicted of their SIN by the holy Spirit, has repented of their SIN and been cleansed of it, has been indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and been CHANGED from a lost SINNER into a Child of God. The denomination that they subsequently affiliate with isn't part of the equation - OTHER THAN that denominations invariably are mixtures of Biblical truth, private interpretations, and outright heresies.
What unifies Genuine Christianity is the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross, FAITH in which cleanses a person from their SIN, and opens their eyes to "the kingdom of God - the spiritual realm.
There are any number of beliefs, organizations, and theological systems using the name: "Christian", but not having a CLUE what "Christian" even means.
This part is also a load of horse pucky.
Jesus didn't toe any party lines, and I personally know a lot of great preachers who also don't. My pastor is one of them.
You are talking out of your butt about people you don't know anything about, and you really owe an apology to some very good people I know.
Jesus didn't toe any party lines, and I personally know a lot of great preachers who also don't. My pastor is one of them.
You are talking out of your butt about people you don't know anything about, and you really owe an apology to some very good people I know.
This one hits a personal nerve with me, because it actually happened.
Once upon a time, just a few years before I was born, the church where my family went became uneasy. Their pastor was beginning to preach against some of the pet sins some of the members of the board held dear to their hearts. The board remonstrated with the pastor about this. The pastor kept preaching against these pet sins.
The board held a church vote to kick the pastor out, but they didn't do it squarely. They called in many people who had not been to church in YEARS, but their names were still on the Church roll, to vote to kick the pastor out. They won unfairly and the pastor was kicked out.
A large number of people left with the pastor. They told him they wanted him to be the pastor of the new church they were starting. He declined, saying he did not want to cause dissension. They said, look, we're going to start a new church with or without you. We want you to be the pastor of it but we will find somebody else if you feel you shouldn't. So he became the pastor of the new church.
A few months later the pastor had to preach a stern sermon about rumor mongering and backbiting, as some of the new church congregation was given to talking bad about the old church they had left. The pastor was somewhat upset, because there was no benefit in talking bad about the old church and there was a lot of harm.
So yeah... Our pastor preaches it straight, regardless of party lines or clique affiliations. And he is still here and our church is still going strong, because we realize that everything he says comes from a loving heart that just wants people to make it to heaven.
And I really wish you wouldn't talk about people like him the way you've been talking about them. I know a lot of good people like my pastor, and they really don't deserve all the things you have been saying.
Once upon a time, just a few years before I was born, the church where my family went became uneasy. Their pastor was beginning to preach against some of the pet sins some of the members of the board held dear to their hearts. The board remonstrated with the pastor about this. The pastor kept preaching against these pet sins.
The board held a church vote to kick the pastor out, but they didn't do it squarely. They called in many people who had not been to church in YEARS, but their names were still on the Church roll, to vote to kick the pastor out. They won unfairly and the pastor was kicked out.
A large number of people left with the pastor. They told him they wanted him to be the pastor of the new church they were starting. He declined, saying he did not want to cause dissension. They said, look, we're going to start a new church with or without you. We want you to be the pastor of it but we will find somebody else if you feel you shouldn't. So he became the pastor of the new church.
A few months later the pastor had to preach a stern sermon about rumor mongering and backbiting, as some of the new church congregation was given to talking bad about the old church they had left. The pastor was somewhat upset, because there was no benefit in talking bad about the old church and there was a lot of harm.
So yeah... Our pastor preaches it straight, regardless of party lines or clique affiliations. And he is still here and our church is still going strong, because we realize that everything he says comes from a loving heart that just wants people to make it to heaven.
And I really wish you wouldn't talk about people like him the way you've been talking about them. I know a lot of good people like my pastor, and they really don't deserve all the things you have been saying.
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Ok im sorry. Usually pastors are hired by school institutions to grow their faith and beliefs or its ran by a group of elders which is usally non denominational. Its rare to find somone who has a church congregation and platform where he is truly free to teach and share as he is lead. If thats what you found then thats a rare find. He also would have no funding from an institution. If hes hard for cash its not uncommon to shut down or have to use homes for gathering.
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This is the requirements for a church to be sponsored you can look up ministry sponsorship.
Before ANY possible sponsor helped you, they would need to have proof that
You were indeed called by the Holy Spirit to ministry
That call was discerned as genuine by those who have a proven history of spiritual discernment.
That you were not only called for ministry, but you are actually theologically trained in a recognised University department, or Bible college, to a specific standard, to prevent you preaching heresy.
You are a member of a recognised denomination (Eg Anglican, Methodist, etc) and your ministry is therefore accountable to a higher authority in the Church to which you belong.
Before ANY possible sponsor helped you, they would need to have proof that
You were indeed called by the Holy Spirit to ministry
That call was discerned as genuine by those who have a proven history of spiritual discernment.
That you were not only called for ministry, but you are actually theologically trained in a recognised University department, or Bible college, to a specific standard, to prevent you preaching heresy.
You are a member of a recognised denomination (Eg Anglican, Methodist, etc) and your ministry is therefore accountable to a higher authority in the Church to which you belong.
So? Who says we needed any sponsors?
Our sponsors were the people who bought our bear suckers and peanut brittle. Many times I would go with Mom up to the church to make another batch of bear suckers. Sometimes she would realize she forgot the key to the fellowship hall door, and she would send me through the window, yet again, to crawl in and unlock it.
Our sponsors were the people who bought our bear suckers and peanut brittle. Many times I would go with Mom up to the church to make another batch of bear suckers. Sometimes she would realize she forgot the key to the fellowship hall door, and she would send me through the window, yet again, to crawl in and unlock it.
So, you can employ the reputations of the rich against the sponsors and be enriched by their donations, or you can minister to others and allow sponsors to arise organically, being selective about whose sponsorship you would even accept, but you cant do both. This is how a pastor can transition by relying on the congregation and ministering to gain sponsorship.