The Christmas Story (Sort Of)

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Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
1,084
113
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#1
.
Hello;

There are numbers of Christians, and non Christians alike, whose knowledge
of Jesus and his family is pretty much limited to greeting cards, television
specials, Hollywood movies, Broadway & school plays, fragmentary
information, and folklore. Well; I think we can do better; beginning with
Jesus' mom.

Buen Camino

(Pleasant Journey)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Luke 1:31-34 . . Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son,
and you shall name him Jesus . . and the Lord God will give him the throne
of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever. How will
this be-- Mary asked the angel --since I am a virgin?

FAQ: From whence did baby Jesus obtain a Y chromosome for his male
gender?

REPLY: In the beginning, Eve's entire body-- inside and out, front to back,
top to bottom, and side to side --was constructed with material taken from
Adam's body (Gen 2:21-22) So if God could construct an entire woman from
material taken from a man's body, then it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to construct a teensy little chromosome from a woman's body.

The practicality of it is that a Y chromosome constructed with material taken
from Mary's body wouldn't be an alien substance created ex nihilo; but
would be 100% natural; easily traceable to Mary's parents, and from thence
back to David.

FAQ: Was Mary baby Jesus' surrogate mother or his natural mother?

REPLY: The angel informed Mary that she would conceive in her womb. Well;
according to the birds and bees, a woman's ovum has to be involved in a
baby's beginning in order for the little tyke to be considered a conception.

FAQ: Was it important that Mary be Jesus' natural mother?

REPLY: Jesus needed genetic ties to David because the angel said he was on
track to ascend the king's throne.

The thing is: candidates under consideration for David's throne have to be--
first and foremost --one of his natural descendants, no exceptions.

Ps 132:11 . .The Lord has sworn in truth unto David; and He will not turn
from it: "Of the fruit of your body will I set upon your throne"

The New Testament verifies Jesus is the fruit of David's body spoken of in
that oath.

Acts 2:29-30 . . Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us
unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn
with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he
would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

Rom 1:3 . . . His son; descended from David according to the flesh

Those two passages would be easily proven untrue had not Jesus' mom been
his natural mother, and if she in turn had not been one of David's natural
female descendants.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
1,084
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Oregon
#2
.
Jesus' Dad

Joseph had no part in Jesus' conception. (Matt 1:18-19 & Luke 1:31-35)

Even so; Mary's boy is positioned in Joseph's genealogy. (Matt 1:1-17)

It's sometimes assumed Jesus was Joseph's foster child. But foster kids have
no place in a man's family tree. Seeing as how Jesus wasn't Joseph's
biological descendant, then the only way he could be legally placed in
Joseph's genealogy was by adoption; and it came about like this:

Joseph was instructed give Mary's baby the name Jesus. (Matt 1:21)

Joseph complied. (Matt 1:25)

In ancient times when a man stood with a woman to name her child, he
officially declared it his (cf. Luke 1:13 & Luke 1:59-63). So from then on the
neighbors, and Jesus' mom, identified Joseph as Jesus' dad. (Luke 2:27-28,
Luke 2:41, Luke 2:48, & Luke 4:22)

FAQ: Why make an issue out of Jesus' association with Joseph?

REPLY: Because God hand-picked Mary's son to inherit David's throne. (Luke
1:32-33)

The thing is: David's throne never passes down to his posterity via women;
it always passes down via the men in his line, viz: Mary was able to give
Jesus a direct connection to David, but she couldn't give her son a direct
connection to David's principal royal heir, whom God hand-picked to be
Solomon. (1Chron 22:7-10)

Long story short: Joseph is directly related to both Solomon and David (Matt
1:6-16, Luke 2:4) so it was necessary for him to adopt Mary's boy in order
to place the lad in Solomon's genealogy and thus validate him as a proper
heir to the throne.

FAQ: Since when did the Jews begin placing men in positions of power by
adoption?

REPLY: Jacob was the first. He took possession of Joseph's two sons
Manasseh & Ephraim and elevated them to tribal heads equal in position to
his eldest sons Reuben and Simeon. (Gen 48:5-6)
_
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,830
447
83
#3
.
Hello;

There are numbers of Christians, and non Christians alike, whose knowledge
of Jesus and his family is pretty much limited to greeting cards, television
specials, Hollywood movies, Broadway & school plays, fragmentary
information, and folklore. Well; I think we can do better; beginning with
Jesus' mom.

Buen Camino

(Pleasant Journey)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Luke 1:31-34 . . Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son,
and you shall name him Jesus . . and the Lord God will give him the throne
of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever. How will
this be-- Mary asked the angel --since I am a virgin?

FAQ: From whence did baby Jesus obtain a Y chromosome for his male
gender?

REPLY: In the beginning, Eve's entire body-- inside and out, front to back,
top to bottom, and side to side --was constructed with material taken from
Adam's body (Gen 2:21-22) So if God could construct an entire woman from
material taken from a man's body, then it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to construct a teensy little chromosome from a woman's body.

The practicality of it is that a Y chromosome constructed with material taken
from Mary's body wouldn't be an alien substance created ex nihilo; but
would be 100% natural; easily traceable to Mary's parents, and from thence
back to David.

FAQ: Was Mary baby Jesus' surrogate mother or his natural mother?

REPLY: The angel informed Mary that she would conceive in her womb. Well;
according to the birds and bees, a woman's ovum has to be involved in a
baby's beginning in order for the little tyke to be considered a conception.

FAQ: Was it important that Mary be Jesus' natural mother?

REPLY: Jesus needed genetic ties to David because the angel said he was on
track to ascend the king's throne.

The thing is: candidates under consideration for David's throne have to be--
first and foremost --one of his natural descendants, no exceptions.

Ps 132:11 . .The Lord has sworn in truth unto David; and He will not turn
from it: "Of the fruit of your body will I set upon your throne"

The New Testament verifies Jesus is the fruit of David's body spoken of in
that oath.

Acts 2:29-30 . . Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us
unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn
with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he
would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

Rom 1:3 . . . His son; descended from David according to the flesh

Those two passages would be easily proven untrue had not Jesus' mom been
his natural mother, and if she in turn had not been one of David's natural
female descendants.
_
I believe the Holy Spirit implanted an ovum in Mary.
 

JMH

Member
Nov 30, 2024
64
37
18
#4
Christmas is a pagan holiday that was constituted by Constantine to satisfy the many many pagans who worshiped the (sun god) and Christians who worshiped Christ. Look up the mother son cult and you will see where a lot of holidays even days of the week came from, especially from the Holy Roman empire which we are still under today more then ever unfortunately until Christ comes back!
Celebrate Christ everyday!

2Corinthians 6: 17
"Therefore
Come out from among them
And be separate,
says the Lord..."
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
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#5
.
Registration In Bethlehem

Luke 2:1-6 . .In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census
should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that
took place while Quirinius was governing in Syria.) And everyone went to his
own town to register.

. .So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to
Bethlehem the town of David because he belonged to the house and line of
David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married
to him and was expecting a child.

* David's birthplace is known from 1Sam 16:1 & 1Sam 16:18

The distance from Nazareth, north of Jerusalem, to Bethlehem south of
Jerusalem; is about 68 linear miles, and roughly 93 road miles.

I don't know why artists always depict Mary traveling those 93 miles on
donkey-back when the mode of transportation isn't mentioned. Personally, I
don't think Joseph and his fiancée traveled to Bethlehem alone anyway, but
rather, in the company of their kin just as they did when Jesus was 12 years
old. (Luke 2:41-45) Seeing as how Mary and Joseph were of the house and
lineage of David, then their kinfolk would've been too.

Jesus' mom was in her third trimester and ready to deliver. In her condition,
the padded bed of a wagon makes far more sense than the back of an
animal; and no doubt Joseph's and Mary's relatives pooled their resources
and made sure she was comfortable.

Mr. Quirinius (a.k.a. Cyrenius) is an historical figure. His name is mentioned
in Res Gestae (The Deeds of Augustus, by Augustus) placing Quirinius as
consul as early as 12 BC.

The Roman historian Tacitus mentions that Quirinius was appointed by
Augustus to be an advisor to his young son Caius Caesar in Armenia.

Although Quirinius wasn't seated as a head of state at this time, he was
actively governing in Syria in a capacity that we today might call a
bureaucrat.

The first century historian Josephus wrote: "Quirinius, a Roman senator who
had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them all until
he had become consul, was appointed governor of Syria by Caesar and was
given the task of assessing property there and in Judea."

Webster's defines a consul as: an official appointed by a government to
reside in a foreign country to represent the commercial interests of citizens
of the appointing country.

NOTE: It's handy to know something about Quirinius' political status because
critics are fond of using him to challenge the Bible's historical accuracy. They
are correct in that he wasn't a head of State at the time, nevertheless, he
was active in government; and apparently quite proficient.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
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#6
.
The Angel & The Shepherds

Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region abiding in the
fields and keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord
appeared to them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they
were struck with great fear.

. .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you
good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of
David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord.

* The Greek word translated "Messiah" is equivalent to the Hebrew word for
"anointed" which isn't limited to important Jews. For example in Isa 45:1 it
tags a Gentile potentate named Cyrus; whom Jeremiah predicted would
initiate the work of rebuilding the Temple. (2Chron 36:22-23 & Ezra 1:1-4)

Now; the purpose of the wise men was to announce the birth of a monarch
(Matt 2:1-2) whereas the purpose of the angel was to announce the birth of
someone to rescue the Jews from retribution (Matt 1:21) In other words:
Jesus was on track to protect his people from the wrath of God-- a people
who not only fully deserved it, but definitely in line to get it; and with no
humanly possible way to avoid it. (Ex 34:6-7, Amos 3:1-2)

FAQ: Why did the angel appear to only the shepherds?

REPLY: One possibility is that the date of Zech 9:9 was accurately predicted
in advance by Dan 9:25 to occur on what we know of as Palm Sunday (Matt
21:1-12) But although Micah 5:2 predicted Messiah's birth would occur in
Bethlehem; the date of that particular event was withheld. Consequently,
those sheep guys were the only audience at hand instead of the thousands
that one might expect at such a significant moment in history.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
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#7
.
The Wise Men And The Star

Matt 2:1-9 . . Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the
days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to
Jerusalem, saying: Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have
seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

. .When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all
Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and
scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be
born. And they said unto him: In Bethlehem of Judaea. After they had heard
the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east
went ahead of them.

FAQ: Why didn't the Jews' religious scholars accompany the wise men to
Bethlehem?

REPLY: They likely assumed the Eastern men were kooks-- I mean, after all;
they were from a foreign country. In those days outsiders consisted mostly
of pagans whose knowledge of the divine was derived from the sciences of
astrology and divination. In point of fact: the Greek word translated "wise
men" basically pertains to magicians, which were regarded as sorcerers.

The visitors likely thought they had seen the last of that star back home, so
it must've been very reassuring to see it again; and this time as a guiding
light rather than a sign.

Matt 2:10 . . When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.

NOTE: As the Earth turns, stars appear to move across the sky from the east
towards the west. Their star moved directly south, and also came to a stop;
which should alert planetarium managers that it wasn't an astronomical
object.

Matt 2:9 . . It stopped over the place where the child was.

Normal celestial objects are so far out in space that it is nigh unto impossible
to tell the exact spot on earth where one of them is directly overhead at any
given moment without special instruments; so I think we can be reasonably
confident that this star was low enough that there was no mistaking the
exact house where young Jesus was lodged. In other words; this star wasn't
a star, rather, it was an apparition.

The shepherds were given no guide. They had to conduct a house to house
search for baby Jesus; and their target was different too. The shepherds
went looking for a religious figure whereas the wise men were seeking a
political figure.

FAQ: How did the wise men know their star was associated with the Jews?

REPLY: Matt 2:12 strongly suggests their entire odyssey was supervised
from start to finish so that when the men spotted the star back home in the
east, they were at the same time informed by God as to its purpose and
urged to pack up and head for the land of Israel; specifically the city of
Jerusalem because that's always been a sort of Washington DC for David's
dynasty.

I think the wise men fully expected to find the young king in Jerusalem
because they didn't inquire as to where he'd be born, rather: where is he
that "is born" because they were sure in their own minds that he was
already out and about even before they left home.

Matt 2:11a . . On coming to the house,

As travelers completed their registration and returned home, the inn
would've become available for moving Joseph's family out of the stable into
better accommodations.

Matt 2:11b . . they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed
down and revered him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him
with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.

The Greek word for "revered" in that verse is a very general word depicting
adoration, obeisance, homage, and/or submission relative to one's betters;
either human or divine.

The gifts they gave Jesus were common trade items of that day, and among
the variety of things we'd expect to be offered to royalty as tribute. No
doubt all three items came in very handy to finance the family's temporary
residence in Egypt; especially the gold. (Matt 2:13-15)
_
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
282
53
28
#8
.
Jesus' Dad

Joseph had no part in Jesus' conception. (Matt 1:18-19 & Luke 1:31-35)

Even so; Mary's boy is positioned in Joseph's genealogy. (Matt 1:1-17)

It's sometimes assumed Jesus was Joseph's foster child. But foster kids have
no place in a man's family tree. Seeing as how Jesus wasn't Joseph's
biological descendant, then the only way he could be legally placed in
Joseph's genealogy was by adoption; and it came about like this:


Joseph was instructed give Mary's baby the name Jesus. (Matt 1:21)

Joseph complied. (Matt 1:25)

In ancient times when a man stood with a woman to name her child, he
officially declared it his (cf. Luke 1:13 & Luke 1:59-63). So from then on the
neighbors, and Jesus' mom, identified Joseph as Jesus' dad. (Luke 2:27-28,
Luke 2:41, Luke 2:48, & Luke 4:22)


FAQ: Why make an issue out of Jesus' association with Joseph?

REPLY: Because God hand-picked Mary's son to inherit David's throne. (Luke
1:32-33)


The thing is: David's throne never passes down to his posterity via women;
it always passes down via the men in his line, viz: Mary was able to give
Jesus a direct connection to David, but she couldn't give her son a direct
connection to David's principal royal heir, whom God hand-picked to be
Solomon. (1Chron 22:7-10)


Long story short: Joseph is directly related to both Solomon and David (Matt
1:6-16, Luke 2:4) so it was necessary for him to adopt Mary's boy in order
to place the lad in Solomon's genealogy and thus validate him as a proper
heir to the throne.


FAQ: Since when did the Jews begin placing men in positions of power by
adoption?


REPLY: Jacob was the first. He took possession of Joseph's two sons
Manasseh & Ephraim and elevated them to tribal heads equal in position to
his eldest sons Reuben and Simeon. (Gen 48:5-6)
_
Joseph was a descendant in the king lineage of David.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
1,084
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#9
.
Herod

Matt 2:7-8 . .Then Herod called the Magi privately and found out from
them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and
said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him,
report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.

Well; the visitors might've returned had not God intervened.

Matt 2:11-12 . . And having been warned in a dream not to go back to
Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

That was likely a safety measure to prevent Herod from knowing where to
find the lad because rulers in that day were typically Machiavellian,
tyrannical, and despotic-- they didn't just crush potential threats to their
power; they utterly annihilated it; and as subsequent events demonstrate,
ol' Herod had neither conscience nor concern for child welfare.

* Saddam Hussein's first order of business upon taking control of Iraq was
to order the executions of some of his closest supporters because they
weren't totally onboard with his ideals. North Korea's Kim Jong-Un is
suspected of ordering the murder of his uncle for similar reasons.

Matt 2:16a . .Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise
men, was exceeding wroth

There's really nothing in the story to even remotely suggest that the wise
men made a fool out of Herod and/or jeered him. They simply failed to
comply with his wishes; which in his mind wasn't merely refusal of his
request, but a failure to take him seriously. (cf. Gal 6:7)

Matt 2:16b . . He sent forth, and slew all the children that were in
Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under,
according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

The Greek word for "coasts" is a mite ambiguous. It technically indicates
borders, but can also indicate regions and/or environs and surrounding
areas.

That verse is commonly appropriated to calculate Jesus' age relative to when
the wise men visited him and his mother. But the verse merely indicates the
passage of time since Herod interviewed the men; which is quite useless for
calculating Jesus' age seeing as how he was already born before the men
even left their country-- how long before they left their country, nobody
knows for sure.

Matt 2:17-18 . .Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was
fulfilled: "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel
weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no
more." (Jer 31:15)

Ramah was roughly six miles north of Jerusalem, while Bethlehem is roughly
the same distance south in the opposite direction. Ramah was settled by the
people of Rachel's son Benjamin, so that any weeping done by the mothers
in that area would be reckoned, by heritage, to be Rachel's weeping.

Anyway; what this suggests to me is that the slaughter of the innocents
extended beyond the community of Bethlehem. Were we to set a
draftsman's compass to a radius equal to the distance between Bethlehem
and Jerusalem, and scribe a circle with Jerusalem at the center, it would
yield a pretty good idea of the area covered by Herod's death squads--
roughly 113 square miles.

But Herod's efforts were futile. Jesus wasn't even in the country; Joseph had
moved the boy and his mother down into Egypt before all the killing began
(Matt 2:13) and in time, Herod died and his danger to Jesus' survival died
with him. (Matt 2:19-23)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
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#11
.
Mary's Atonements

Luke 2:22-25 . .And when the days for their purification according to the
law of Moses were completed, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present
him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of The Lord; "Every first-born
male that opens the womb shall be consecrated to The Lord" and to offer a
sacrifice according to what was said in the law of The Lord: "A pair of
turtledoves, or two young pigeons."

* The days of purification for boys is a total of 40. (Lev 12:1-4)

The dollar-value of Mary's offerings attest to her and Joseph's status as low
income Israelis. (Lev 12:6-8)

Too many Gentiles are quick to assume Mary's offerings prove she was a
sinner; but one of those birds was for Jesus in lieu of the lamb that the law
mandates for redeeming boys; so then, if Mary's offering proves she's a
sinner; then by association, the offering for Jesus proves the very same
thing. (Ex 13:11-13)

Joseph's wife brought those offerings for herself and Jesus not because she
and her son were sinners, but primarily because that is what the law of The
Lord requires from Jewish mothers; and it doesn't matter whether a woman
is a sinner or a non sinner nor whether her baby is a sinner or a non-sinner.
It would have been a mistake for Jesus' mom to break that rule. She had to
bring the birds for her and Jesus simply because it was the right thing for
Jewish mothers to do.

Another case in point of "the right thing to do" is John the Baptist. His
mission was a baptism unto repentance (Matt 3:11). Did Jesus need
repentance? No; but he submitted himself to John's baptism because it was
the right thing to do seeing as John's mission was God-given. (Matt 3:13-15)

This principle is applicable in a number of ways, for instance at Matt 11:28-30
where Jesus said:

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my
burden is light."

When someone is convinced that Christ came into the world on a special
mission from God, then the right thing for them to do is RSVP Jesus and tell
him, in so many words, that they would like to be in on that rest he's
offering.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
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#12
.
Mary & Elisabeth

It's sometimes alleged that Jesus' mom was of the tribe of Levi because of
the wording of Luke 1:36 which says:

"And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old
age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren."

Whereas Elisabeth was of the tribe of Levi (Luke 1:5) Jesus' mom was of the
tribe of Judah. (Luke 1:32, Rom 1:3, and Heb 7:14)

The heads of both those two tribes were Leah's offspring. (Gen 35:23)

Ergo: Mary and Elisabeth were cousins via a grandmother in common.

* Had Jesus' mom descended from Levi, her little boy would've failed to
qualify for David's throne because all candidates must first of all be in the
line of Judah's posterity; no exceptions.

Gen 49:10 . .The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff
from his descendants, until the coming of the one to whom it belongs, the
one whom all nations will obey. (cf. Dan 7:13-14)
_
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
5,894
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#13
.
Jesus Out And About

Luke 2:41-51 . . Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the
Feast of the Passover. And when he became twelve, they went up there
according to the custom of the Feast; and as they were returning, after
spending the full number of days, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem.

. . But his parents were unaware of it, but supposed him to be in the
caravan, and went a day's journey; and they began looking for him among
their relatives and acquaintances. When they did not find him, they returned
to Jerusalem looking for him.

. .Then, after three days they found him in the Temple, sitting in the midst
of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. And all
who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.

. .When they saw him, they were bewildered; and his mother said to him:
"Son, why have you treated us this way? Behold, your father and I have
been anxiously looking for you." And he said to them: "Why is it that you
were looking for me? Did you not know that I must be about my Father's
business?" But they did not understand the statement which He had made to
them.

Well; I don't quite understand it either, but one thing I do know is that Jesus
wasn't rebellious: he was supervised by a higher power than his parents.
(John 4:34, John 6:38, John 8:28, John 8:29, John 14:31)

NOTE: Other than that one instance of what at first appears to be an
assertion of independence; Jesus was actually a good kid.

Luke 2:51 . .Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient
to them.

Anyway, point being: it's commonly assumed that when the Word of John
1:1-3 came into the world as the flesh of John 1:14, that he came as a
divine child. And it's also commonly assumed that he came with all the
wisdom of God preloaded in his little baby skull. But no, the Word came into
the world as a Jewish child (Rom 8:3, Heb 2:16-17) and was required to
study his people's religion the same as any other kid on the block.

But the Word's flesh had a very large advantage over the other kids. God
equipped Jesus with an unlimited amount of His spirit (Isa 11:1-2 & John
3:34) which made him not only a quick learner, but also an astute learner,
i.e. young Jesus was every Sunday school teacher's dream: a kid that gets
it.

Luke 2:52 . . And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with
God and man.

The Greek word translated "stature" is somewhat ambiguous. It can refer to
age, i.e. Jesus' physical development. Whereas it can also be speaking of
maturity, i.e. his personality's development.

Anyway; God was pleased with Jesus' spiritual progress, and apparently his
neighbors found Jesus to be an all-around regular guy-- in point of fact, so
regular that when he stood up in his town's synagogue to announce (in a
nice way) that he was the guy predicted by Isa 61:1-2 they in attendance
that day were thunderstruck.
_
 

Webers.Home

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113
Oregon
#14
.
Jeconiah's Curse

Back in the old testament, a curse was leveled upon a really bad king in
Solomon's royal line to David's throne that reads like this:

Jer 22:29-30 . . O land, land, land, hear the word of the Lord! Thus said
the Lord: Record this man as without succession, one who shall never be
found acceptable; for no man of his offspring shall be accepted to sit on the
throne of David and to rule again in Judah.

The bad king's name was Jeconiah (a.k.a. Jehoiakim and/or Coniah) and
Joseph was one of his descendants. (Matt 1:11)

It's commonly believed that the curse extended to Joseph, so that had Jesus
been Joseph's paternal descendant, it would've prevented Mary's son from
ascending David's throne.

However; adopted kids inherit from their dads the same as his paternal
children; so had the curse extended to Joseph, it would have extended to
Jesus too because the throne and the curse were a package deal.

Fortunately; the wording "to rule again in Judah" indicates that the curse on
Jeconiah's royal progeny was limited to the era of the divided kingdom. That
condition came to an end when Nebuchadnezzar crushed the whole country
and led first Samaria, and then later Judah, off to Babylonian slavery.

When Messiah reigns, the country of Israel will be unified. His jurisdiction
won't be limited to Judah within a divided kingdom, but will dominate all the
land of Israel. So the curse doesn't apply to him.

Ezek 37:21-22 . .You shall declare to them: Thus said the Lord God: I am
going to take the Israelite people from among the nations they have gone
to, and gather them from every quarter, and bring them to their own land. I
will make them a single nation in the land, on the hills of Israel, and one
king shall be king of them all. Never again shall they be two nations, and
never again shall they be divided into two kingdoms.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,894
1,084
113
Oregon
#15
.
The Holy Couple's Private Life

It's remarkable the number of sincere people I encounter online who believe
Joseph shared a life with Jesus' mom with no intention of ever having any
children by her. In other words; they actually believe that Joseph was
celibate in his own home; and consequently Mary too: a young girl in the
prime of life no less. I can't imagine a more dysfunctional marriage than
that. (Imagine kids growing up in a home where parents never hug, kiss, or
display the slightest feelings of romantic affection for each other.)

* Since Mary was already engaged to Joseph prior to Gabriel's
announcement; then the logical assumption is that she was marrying a
Jewish guy for the usual reasons that Jewish girls wanted a Jewish husband
--to settle down, cohabit with a Jewish man, and raise a Jewish family.

* And seeing as how Joseph was already engaged to Jesus' mom prior to the
dream sequence, then the logical assumption is that he was marrying a
Jewish girl for the usual reasons that Jewish guys wanted a Jewish wife-- to
settle down, cohabit with a Jewish woman, and raise a Jewish family.

Since the inspired Gospel narratives do not clearly, and without ambiguity,
indicate otherwise, it has to be assumed, from the normal round of human
experience, that Joseph and Mary fully intended to sleep together after their
wedding just like every other normal Jewish couple did back then.

Another point we should address is that some versions of Christianity insist
it's a sin to marry with no intent of producing children. That "sin" is based
upon a very early blessing in the book of Genesis.

Gen 1:28 . .God blessed them and said to them; Be fruitful and increase in
number

Some folks regard that blessing as a rule of engagement instead of
empowerment. Therefore, had Mary and Joseph made no attempt
whatsoever to produce children together, then they would've been guilty of
disobeying that which some folks regard as a divine fiat. It gets worse.

God entices no man to sin (Jas 1:13). So if He had directed Mary and Joseph
into a celibate, platonic marriage-- thus forcing them to disobey His early
fiat --then according to some people's thinking; God would have been guilty
of leading Jesus' parents into sin.

A serious ethnic point that should be noted is that Joseph and his wife were
both Abraham's posterity. God early-on blessed their ancestor with this
remark:

Gen 22:17 . . In blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply
thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea
shore.

Had Joseph not attempted to produce children of his own with his wife, he
would've failed to participate in Abraham's blessing and do his part in
perpetuating his ancestor's seed. In other words: it was Joseph's sacred
privilege, and his sacred duty, to make an honest attempt to have children
with Jesus' mom.
_