The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation
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Yes, I agree, Jesus has been lifted up and He said He will draw all to Him, and we are also told those given to Jesus will come, Jesus said that also, and that He will cast none out, etc. Do we take this to mean everyone is saved? Everyone comes? No. So there is something missing somewhere. Do we apply the principle of many are called but few are chosen here? I don't think so. God knows none seek Him but He wants us to seek Him. There exists in many such opposite ideas paradoxes that may not more fully be grasped by logic alone. I have long held the position that people mostly do NOT seek God, they are after all in their natural mind hostile towards Him, that is the whole issue we inherit with human nature, and still we have people denying that, too. There is nothing good dwelling in the flesh. That means everyone not born again. How can a right choice concerning God come from such a heart and mind? I say it cannot. God needs to change the heart first. This is the issue. The natural man is the issue. What is he capable of doing? Does he make choices consistent with his nature, or not? BUT man does seek truth, and Jesus is the embodiment of Truth.
I must complete getting ready to go out for coffee or it will soon be too late for caffeine...
And when I say, people say, I am not saying YOU say. Just those become main talking points, for many say similar things.
I must complete getting ready to go out for coffee or it will soon be too late for caffeine...
And when I say, people say, I am not saying YOU say. Just those become main talking points, for many say similar things.
“There may be a problem with that idea because I find it difficult to follow long involved conversations if each
post is lengthy in itself,”
yes that’s my and a lot of other folks issue too sometimes.
but combining that part with me and how my communication is not great and I sort of say too much the relates but then the other persons like ( what ? ) lol I don’t know sister I think one thing to do when I come here anytime is beforehand
pray and remember “ it’s not a seminary and we aren’t a bunch of authorized teachers or people claiming to be prophets or wise folk , it’s just a bunch of random people from random places who must truly believe the Bible and do have some obvious knowledge showing they have studied and are seeking the lord in his word.
As long as we’re respectful I think it’s alright if we have some different ideas I’m not sure why we get so upset when others see it differently . If we all agreed we should be Talking to others who don’t lol
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
That’s how we change the gospel is a discerner of Gods true word and the world ideas when we hear and believe it
post is lengthy in itself,”
yes that’s my and a lot of other folks issue too sometimes.
but combining that part with me and how my communication is not great and I sort of say too much the relates but then the other persons like ( what ? ) lol I don’t know sister I think one thing to do when I come here anytime is beforehand
pray and remember “ it’s not a seminary and we aren’t a bunch of authorized teachers or people claiming to be prophets or wise folk , it’s just a bunch of random people from random places who must truly believe the Bible and do have some obvious knowledge showing they have studied and are seeking the lord in his word.
As long as we’re respectful I think it’s alright if we have some different ideas I’m not sure why we get so upset when others see it differently . If we all agreed we should be Talking to others who don’t lol
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
That’s how we change the gospel is a discerner of Gods true word and the world ideas when we hear and believe it
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Perseverance pays. "Repent" means (signified by the word "or") "accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2)."
What do YOU mean by "repent"?
What do YOU mean by "repent"?
What do you make of these verse about God granting repentance?
Acts 5:31 He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince
and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying,
“Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”
2 Timothy 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if
perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Acts 5:31 He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince
and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying,
“Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”
2 Timothy 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if
perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Regarding "As long as we’re respectful I think it’s alright if we have some different ideas I’m not sure why we get so upset when others see it differently . If we all agreed we should be Talking to others who don’t lol" I have a thought about why that is.
The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per MT 7:1&5, 2CR 13:5-8).
A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (EPH 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. JN 17:20-23, “May they be one…”).
The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per MT 7:1&5, 2CR 13:5-8).
A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (EPH 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. JN 17:20-23, “May they be one…”).
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Well, for starters they surely don't mean that God forces souls to repent and go to heaven against their will! With that being obvious, we can infer that they must mean that souls will exercise their God-given volition to accept God's opportunity to repent and be forgiven, receive eternal life and learn the truth. God initiates; souls cooperate--or not!
Do you propose that a man of the flesh within which no good dwells and who is hostile to God, a slave to sin,
suppressing the truth, lover of unrighteousness, blinded to truth, incapable of obeying, captive to the will of
the devil, choose to love the One True God before he even knows God and God changes his heart?
suppressing the truth, lover of unrighteousness, blinded to truth, incapable of obeying, captive to the will of
the devil, choose to love the One True God before he even knows God and God changes his heart?
I propose that DT 30:19, MT 23:37, JN 3:16, 1TM 2:3-4 and so forth teach that God gives sinful man the ability via volition to repent of being hostile to God and serving sin, etc., because God can be known even via creation (RM 1:20) and conscience (RM 2:14-15). Upon opening the door to one's heart via repentance, Jesus will enter and change the person (RV 3:20). Jesus knocks; souls open the door--or not!
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Moot???
This is the verse:
New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
What about this verse that makes James 2:24 not mean that salvation is not by faith alone?
The very phrase itself (faith alone) is not even in your verse.
James 2:24 has the definitive, Eph. 2:8-10 does not.
This is why there is no verses in the Bible that state we are saved by faith alone. If there were the Bible would be in error.
This is the verse:
New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
What about this verse that makes James 2:24 not mean that salvation is not by faith alone?
The very phrase itself (faith alone) is not even in your verse.
James 2:24 has the definitive, Eph. 2:8-10 does not.
This is why there is no verses in the Bible that state we are saved by faith alone. If there were the Bible would be in error.
The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.
*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)
Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.
*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)
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“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines”
you’ll have to dumb this down a bit not quite following this part
“Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines”
What is “ spiritual orientation “?
And also Are you saying we shouldNt consider any other verses in the Bible regarding salvation ? Sorry I’m not too bright
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
Philippians 2:12
Or
“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day;
not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”
Romans 13:11-14 KJV
is Paul adding secondaries ? or are these other important sentences from lengthy messages he’s written in an epistle ? Which we should probably read chapters of and learn from and grow in faith as a result of ect
Or what about things the lord said beforehand are those secondary ? or the primary foundation ? is paul one of his servants and messengers of the gospel sent to all creation ? Which is the foundation ( see Roman’s 1:1-4)
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
John 3:14-18 KJV
for instance , before paul converted to Christianity and got baptized Jesus had sent out his disciples with this message
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned. “
Is this a didachaic or secondary doctrine ? Or the primary one from which Paul is speaking secondarily as a chosen witness and apostle of the lord Jesus ?
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
Romans 1:1, 3-5
But there’s also milk and ….,meat
“For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
Hebrews 5:13-14 KJV
When I was twenty i didn’t understand what I did at fifty or sixty …sometimes maturity and practice beers results but milk also comes with repentance
“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”
1 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
some folks arent ready for growth I’ve been there
you’ll have to dumb this down a bit not quite following this part
“Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines”
What is “ spiritual orientation “?
And also Are you saying we shouldNt consider any other verses in the Bible regarding salvation ? Sorry I’m not too bright
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
Philippians 2:12
Or
“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day;
not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”
Romans 13:11-14 KJV
is Paul adding secondaries ? or are these other important sentences from lengthy messages he’s written in an epistle ? Which we should probably read chapters of and learn from and grow in faith as a result of ect
Or what about things the lord said beforehand are those secondary ? or the primary foundation ? is paul one of his servants and messengers of the gospel sent to all creation ? Which is the foundation ( see Roman’s 1:1-4)
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
John 3:14-18 KJV
for instance , before paul converted to Christianity and got baptized Jesus had sent out his disciples with this message
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned. “
Is this a didachaic or secondary doctrine ? Or the primary one from which Paul is speaking secondarily as a chosen witness and apostle of the lord Jesus ?
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
Romans 1:1, 3-5
But there’s also milk and ….,meat
“For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
Hebrews 5:13-14 KJV
When I was twenty i didn’t understand what I did at fifty or sixty …sometimes maturity and practice beers results but milk also comes with repentance
“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”
1 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
some folks arent ready for growth I’ve been there
Aye, I am simply pointing out that it has been said by some and such things applauded by others and some of them most certainly ARE in this very thread, and, those who have claimed God is unfair if He does something for one person and does not do the exact same thing for everyone else. But I do not hear of many burning bush experiences, though I do hear people wishing for such, seriously! Nor do we get very many attesting to a road to Damascus experience. So we know for a FACT which is affirmed through Scripture, and many more than I gave examples for, that God reveals Himself to some in ways He does not do for everyone despite those who deny such, or claim He is unfair IF He does as if He does not. Plus, I do not understand some of your typos sometimes haha, what is the honk for? .
I am back home from coffee, it was a lovely little outing
I am back home from coffee, it was a lovely little outing