The Lost Art of 'Initiative'

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Nov 14, 2024
138
45
28
Kansas
#1
Especially in the more charismatic-flavored churches, christians talk a lot about hearing God and doing God's will. I've gone to charismatic churches for years and have been in church since I was a little boy. Much of what I've seen in the 'hearing God' or "I felt led" department is really... nothing. Many christians don't want to do what God wants them to do (primarily because it interferes with their lives, not because they hate God or something), so when they 'feel led', they... just don't do anything.

As common sense might show, and as the Bible shows (eg. 1John 2), there are different levels of spiritual maturity, ability, faith, Grace. In the area of works (action, obedience, glorifying God), the level or type of people God trusts and 'likes' most are the ones who act without having to wait on God to give specific directions: the bold. Why would God trust and have a special love for these people? They are the most accessible vessels for Him; they're the most similar to Him in the area of action. God is always acting and always active (Jesus said,"My Father has been working until now, [therefore] I too am working" -John 5:17). Some of the greatest works of faith in the Bible were performed by people who took initiative; ie. they did not wait for God to tell them what to do but simply just did it. Because they were acting in line with God's will, God backed their actions and honored them. Just a few of these people:

1.) Phinehas. During a plague in Israel for their disobedience, one of Aaron's sons decided to just do what he knew was right rather than praying and waiting on God to do something. I believe that spiritual eyes will see that Moses, Aaron, Miriam, and the other leaders and godly people were praying for God to stop the plague. But God didn't stop the plague for them but for Phinehas because he took initiative and did the right thing without having to be told. In case anyone reads the text and doesn't realize that God acted specifically because Phinehas took action, God says it plainly. (Numbers 25.)

2.) Jonathan. Most christians don't know that Jonathan and David loved each other so much because in matters of faith and boldness, they were exactly the same. In fighting Goliath alone, David was like Jonathan, not the other way around. 4 chapters before the story that overshadows his own solitary conquest of the Philistines, Jonathan faced down the Philistine army against the orders of King Saul, his father. While the entire Israelite army hid in caves, Jonathan snuck off (he did not pray and wait for God's guidance). He showed his armorbearer that he trusted that God wanted Israel to defeat the Philistines, and so if the entire military wouldn't would do it, then he would do it alone. He stated, "For nothing can prevent the Lord from saving whether with many or with few." He prevailed and the Israelite army joined him after that. (1Sam. 14.)

3.) David. Everyone knows the story. The entire military came out every day for forty days with the war cry that signaled that they were ready to fight... and every day for forty days, Goliath made them change their mind. When David heard Goliath speak just one time, he immediately recognized that God's enemies were approaching both God and God's people. David discerned that wasn't God will and that God's will was for Goliath to be defeated. That quickly, in seconds. He comforted King Saul and told him not to worry, then without prayer or fasting or a weekend to seek God, David prevailed and the Israelite army joined him after that. Just like Jonathan. That was why the Bible says David and Jonathan were knit together in soul. After David killed Goliath, everyone loved him; but the Bible says, "The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (1Sam. 18:1). They were the exact same [rare] class of men, a class that God esteems very highly.

4.) Abigail. This woman was something special. In 1Sam. 25, David and his men did some work for Abigail's very wealthy husband. Instead of paying them, like their culture demanded he do, Abigail's husband refused to pay them and also mouthed off at David. When David heard about it, always one to take initiative, he vowed to kill Abigail's husband and basically everyone on his sprawling properties and immediately got his men on their way to pay him one last visit. But God alerted Abigail through one of her servants that her husband was as good as dead and so without asking him or anyone else, she prepared some gifts for David and his men. And when she intercepted him on the way to kill her husband, she spoke prophetically and with tremendous wisdom to him, telling him that God would establish him as king and that God would take care of her husband (which He did) and that David wouldn't have to mar his record by doing the killing himself. She was remarkably spot on and David, sensing her spirit, changed his mind. God alerted her to the looming threat but didn't tell her what to do. She took initiative herself, like the Proverbs 31 wife. From that short chapter, I consider Abigail to be the most amazing woman in the OT.

Initiative. We do it when it comes to feeding our faces and taking care of ourselves; but we totally forget how to do it and become timid when it regards God, others, and things outside of our personal space. Just like parents would trust kids who take initiative to do the right thing and don't have to be told by their parents, God trusts and favors His children who do the same.
 

ForgiveMeGod

Active member
Nov 11, 2024
775
244
43
#2
Especially in the more charismatic-flavored churches, christians talk a lot about hearing God and doing God's will. I've gone to charismatic churches for years and have been in church since I was a little boy. Much of what I've seen in the 'hearing God' or "I felt led" department is really... nothing. Many christians don't want to do what God wants them to do (primarily because it interferes with their lives, not because they hate God or something), so when they 'feel led', they... just don't do anything.

As common sense might show, and as the Bible shows (eg. 1John 2), there are different levels of spiritual maturity, ability, faith, Grace. In the area of works (action, obedience, glorifying God), the level or type of people God trusts and 'likes' most are the ones who act without having to wait on God to give specific directions: the bold. Why would God trust and have a special love for these people? They are the most accessible vessels for Him; they're the most similar to Him in the area of action. God is always acting and always active (Jesus said,"My Father has been working until now, [therefore] I too am working" -John 5:17). Some of the greatest works of faith in the Bible were performed by people who took initiative; ie. they did not wait for God to tell them what to do but simply just did it. Because they were acting in line with God's will, God backed their actions and honored them. Just a few of these people:

1.) Phinehas. During a plague in Israel for their disobedience, one of Aaron's sons decided to just do what he knew was right rather than praying and waiting on God to do something. I believe that spiritual eyes will see that Moses, Aaron, Miriam, and the other leaders and godly people were praying for God to stop the plague. But God didn't stop the plague for them but for Phinehas because he took initiative and did the right thing without having to be told. In case anyone reads the text and doesn't realize that God acted specifically because Phinehas took action, God says it plainly. (Numbers 25.)

2.) Jonathan. Most christians don't know that Jonathan and David loved each other so much because in matters of faith and boldness, they were exactly the same. In fighting Goliath alone, David was like Jonathan, not the other way around. 4 chapters before the story that overshadows his own solitary conquest of the Philistines, Jonathan faced down the Philistine army against the orders of King Saul, his father. While the entire Israelite army hid in caves, Jonathan snuck off (he did not pray and wait for God's guidance). He showed his armorbearer that he trusted that God wanted Israel to defeat the Philistines, and so if the entire military wouldn't would do it, then he would do it alone. He stated, "For nothing can prevent the Lord from saving whether with many or with few." He prevailed and the Israelite army joined him after that. (1Sam. 14.)

3.) David. Everyone knows the story. The entire military came out every day for forty days with the war cry that signaled that they were ready to fight... and every day for forty days, Goliath made them change their mind. When David heard Goliath speak just one time, he immediately recognized that God's enemies were approaching both God and God's people. David discerned that wasn't God will and that God's will was for Goliath to be defeated. That quickly, in seconds. He comforted King Saul and told him not to worry, then without prayer or fasting or a weekend to seek God, David prevailed and the Israelite army joined him after that. Just like Jonathan. That was why the Bible says David and Jonathan were knit together in soul. After David killed Goliath, everyone loved him; but the Bible says, "The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (1Sam. 18:1). They were the exact same [rare] class of men, a class that God esteems very highly.

4.) Abigail. This woman was something special. In 1Sam. 25, David and his men did some work for Abigail's very wealthy husband. Instead of paying them, like their culture demanded he do, Abigail's husband refused to pay them and also mouthed off at David. When David heard about it, always one to take initiative, he vowed to kill Abigail's husband and basically everyone on his sprawling properties and immediately got his men on their way to pay him one last visit. But God alerted Abigail through one of her servants that her husband was as good as dead and so without asking him or anyone else, she prepared some gifts for David and his men. And when she intercepted him on the way to kill her husband, she spoke prophetically and with tremendous wisdom to him, telling him that God would establish him as king and that God would take care of her husband (which He did) and that David wouldn't have to mar his record by doing the killing himself. She was remarkably spot on and David, sensing her spirit, changed his mind. God alerted her to the looming threat but didn't tell her what to do. She took initiative herself, like the Proverbs 31 wife. From that short chapter, I consider Abigail to be the most amazing woman in the OT.

Initiative. We do it when it comes to feeding our faces and taking care of ourselves; but we totally forget how to do it and become timid when it regards God, others, and things outside of our personal space. Just like parents would trust kids who take initiative to do the right thing and don't have to be told by their parents, God trusts and favors His children who do the same.
The Holy Spirit led me here. thanks for writing this.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
558
113
#4
Especially in the more charismatic-flavored churches, christians talk a lot about hearing God and doing God's will. I've gone to charismatic churches for years and have been in church since I was a little boy. Much of what I've seen in the 'hearing God' or "I felt led" department is really... nothing. Many christians don't want to do what God wants them to do (primarily because it interferes with their lives, not because they hate God or something), so when they 'feel led', they... just don't do anything.

As common sense might show, and as the Bible shows (eg. 1John 2), there are different levels of spiritual maturity, ability, faith, Grace. In the area of works (action, obedience, glorifying God), the level or type of people God trusts and 'likes' most are the ones who act without having to wait on God to give specific directions: the bold. Why would God trust and have a special love for these people? They are the most accessible vessels for Him; they're the most similar to Him in the area of action. God is always acting and always active (Jesus said,"My Father has been working until now, [therefore] I too am working" -John 5:17). Some of the greatest works of faith in the Bible were performed by people who took initiative; ie. they did not wait for God to tell them what to do but simply just did it. Because they were acting in line with God's will, God backed their actions and honored them. Just a few of these people:

1.) Phinehas. During a plague in Israel for their disobedience, one of Aaron's sons decided to just do what he knew was right rather than praying and waiting on God to do something. I believe that spiritual eyes will see that Moses, Aaron, Miriam, and the other leaders and godly people were praying for God to stop the plague. But God didn't stop the plague for them but for Phinehas because he took initiative and did the right thing without having to be told. In case anyone reads the text and doesn't realize that God acted specifically because Phinehas took action, God says it plainly. (Numbers 25.)

2.) Jonathan. Most christians don't know that Jonathan and David loved each other so much because in matters of faith and boldness, they were exactly the same. In fighting Goliath alone, David was like Jonathan, not the other way around. 4 chapters before the story that overshadows his own solitary conquest of the Philistines, Jonathan faced down the Philistine army against the orders of King Saul, his father. While the entire Israelite army hid in caves, Jonathan snuck off (he did not pray and wait for God's guidance). He showed his armorbearer that he trusted that God wanted Israel to defeat the Philistines, and so if the entire military wouldn't would do it, then he would do it alone. He stated, "For nothing can prevent the Lord from saving whether with many or with few." He prevailed and the Israelite army joined him after that. (1Sam. 14.)

3.) David. Everyone knows the story. The entire military came out every day for forty days with the war cry that signaled that they were ready to fight... and every day for forty days, Goliath made them change their mind. When David heard Goliath speak just one time, he immediately recognized that God's enemies were approaching both God and God's people. David discerned that wasn't God will and that God's will was for Goliath to be defeated. That quickly, in seconds. He comforted King Saul and told him not to worry, then without prayer or fasting or a weekend to seek God, David prevailed and the Israelite army joined him after that. Just like Jonathan. That was why the Bible says David and Jonathan were knit together in soul. After David killed Goliath, everyone loved him; but the Bible says, "The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (1Sam. 18:1). They were the exact same [rare] class of men, a class that God esteems very highly.

4.) Abigail. This woman was something special. In 1Sam. 25, David and his men did some work for Abigail's very wealthy husband. Instead of paying them, like their culture demanded he do, Abigail's husband refused to pay them and also mouthed off at David. When David heard about it, always one to take initiative, he vowed to kill Abigail's husband and basically everyone on his sprawling properties and immediately got his men on their way to pay him one last visit. But God alerted Abigail through one of her servants that her husband was as good as dead and so without asking him or anyone else, she prepared some gifts for David and his men. And when she intercepted him on the way to kill her husband, she spoke prophetically and with tremendous wisdom to him, telling him that God would establish him as king and that God would take care of her husband (which He did) and that David wouldn't have to mar his record by doing the killing himself. She was remarkably spot on and David, sensing her spirit, changed his mind. God alerted her to the looming threat but didn't tell her what to do. She took initiative herself, like the Proverbs 31 wife. From that short chapter, I consider Abigail to be the most amazing woman in the OT.

Initiative. We do it when it comes to feeding our faces and taking care of ourselves; but we totally forget how to do it and become timid when it regards God, others, and things outside of our personal space. Just like parents would trust kids who take initiative to do the right thing and don't have to be told by their parents, God trusts and favors His children who do the same.
One only sees, when God reveals it to them as in Peter, when he told Jesus, Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus said to Peter only my Father could have revealed that to him. I see this as true for us all. So, I asked Father and it is being and been being revealed to me in all my mistakes made and many mistakes have I made, even as Saul did too, woe is me as in Isaiah 6:1-7
 
Nov 14, 2024
138
45
28
Kansas
#5
The Holy Spirit led me here. thanks for writing this.
Is this, then, something God has been talking to you about?

That's not the brightest of questions since God talks to all men/males about this-- christian and non-- but few of them are even aware He's talking to them about it and just sit around passively, in constant cowardice and survival mode.

It's exciting to me. A man will either live his entire life on his knees in the middle of about five statues/gods (eg. his wife, his job, his church, his social group, etc.) or he'll live it standing with God on mountains and listening to God's strategies and instructions on his and others' roles in God's plans to restore the Kingdom to earth. I'm not a kneeling person and so life, not survival, is the only option for me.
 

ForgiveMeGod

Active member
Nov 11, 2024
775
244
43
#6
Is this, then, something God has been talking to you about?

That's not the brightest of questions since God talks to all men/males about this-- christian and non-- but few of them are even aware He's talking to them about it and just sit around passively, in constant cowardice and survival mode.

It's exciting to me. A man will either live his entire life on his knees in the middle of about five statues/gods (eg. his wife, his job, his church, his social group, etc.) or he'll live it standing with God on mountains and listening to God's strategies and instructions on his and others' roles in God's plans to restore the Kingdom to earth. I'm not a kneeling person and so life, not survival, is the only option for me.
Yes, I’m guilty of it.
 
Nov 14, 2024
138
45
28
Kansas
#7
One only sees, when God reveals it to them as in Peter, when he told Jesus, Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus said to Peter only my Father could have revealed that to him. I see this as true for us all.
The Bible says knowledge comes only from God. The more I look at this the more I see it's true. We often conflate information with knowledge.

My older brother once told me one of his friends was 'humble'. But that didn't sound right to me. When I looked, I told my brother that it wasn't humility he was seeing in his friend but timidity. They two are vastly different.

Before Obama was first elected to office and so many people praised him and called him 'intelligent', I again knew that wasn't the right term. When I looked, I told them that he had a lot of information but wasn't intelligent.

Jesus 'tricked' the disciples into answering the way He wanted them to. If He'd asked them first, "Who do you believe I am," they would've immediately said proudly, "You're the Son of God!" Instead, Jesus set them up so they could realize the distinction between believing and knowing and to show them that knowledge comes only from God. So, instead, He asked them, "What are people's opinions of me? Who does the average unintelligent person think I am?" The disciples were eager to answer, because Jesus pretended to distinguish those average idiots from the disciples. The disciples answered, "Oh, those guys. Some of them believe You're Elijah or John the Baptist or something. Lol. Some actually believe you're the Prophet Moses prophesied about..." When Jesus saw He'd trapped them in their own immaturity, then He said to them, "Okay, so now you've told Me unimportant and average people's uninformed opinions of Me and what they think/believe of Me. So now tell me your uninformed opinions of Me. Who do you believe I am?"

This was brilliant: Jesus got the disciples to admit that while their own opinions/beliefs about Him (ie. that He was the Son of God) were in fact right, they were still only opinions just like the opinions of all those dumb and uninformed people who believed Jesus was Elijah or someone else. One side was wrong and one side was right, but both sides were equally in error: anyone can believe anything and be wrong sometimes and right sometimes, but knowledge is always right and always comes only from God. In the disciples' stunned silence (because Jesus asked their opinions too), they learned a little humility. And in the silence of their humility alone was God able to speak, giving Peter knowledge. He then said not "I think" or "I believe" or "I opine" or "I'm sure" or even "I know" but rather "You are the Son of God." Therefore, unless/until God reveals something to a person, the person cannot know but can indeed believe [correctly] but not know. It's fascinating.
 
Nov 14, 2024
138
45
28
Kansas
#8
Yes, I’m guilty of it.
Adam was guilty first in letting Eve take charge and now all men are born with the Adamic (fallen) nature competing against the God Nature (raw masculinity) inside them. This fight goes on in all males their entire lives. For the men who agree or side with their original nature, initiative against passivity in this aspect, then they have to face the ire of a lot of females in their lives (who prefer them to be more docile and pliable) along with the Jezebel spirit.

As long as you can see you've been guilty of it, that's a great place to start. God has an answer for that. David's initiative was alive and well to the extent that King Saul wanted him dead, dead, dead. 600 depressed and demoralized (hardly masculine) men came to David while he was fleeing Saul. And the God Nature at work in David, like a candle, reached over and re-lit the masculinity in those men and they became monsters of men from that. God can, by Himself, re-ignite that part of you (and any other God-designed part of you that is dormant) or He can do it through someone or something else, as long as you want it re-ignited.
 

ForgiveMeGod

Active member
Nov 11, 2024
775
244
43
#9
I’ve experienced that first hand, many times. Not a fan of it. Usually why I just give up on the relationship or set boundaries.
 
Nov 14, 2024
138
45
28
Kansas
#10
I’ve experienced that first hand, many times. Not a fan of it. Usually why I just give up on the relationship or set boundaries.
Oh, I have too.

"A woman is a source of bewilderment to man... simply because he does not see beyond his own pleasure." -Leslie Stewart.

That means that the reason men don't understand women is because men are too infatuated with women. If you can find the man in you and shut up the boy who's always crying for mommy (ie. comfort from a woman, quite literally), then you can understand women and not have to struggle with relationships again. That's the brief way of putting it. There's more but that's it. And you'll also be happy. People, male and female, who walk around constantly desiring things are terribly miserable. The trap is to want more and more... but it's people's constant wants that keep them miserable. I've been in situations where I had nothing but was happier than the rich people around me. Why? Because I managed my wants/desires. I had wants/desires but not a huge count. The people around me naturally had a huge 'want count'. They couldn't figure out that their constant desires and greed and covetousness was in fact what made them so unhappy.

Put your want(s) in a headlock, rear naked choke, arm triangle, guillotine (choose one) and you'll suddenly be free of constant desire and with it constant unhappiness. It's fascinating how this really is the way it works: the more you chase, the more tired you are (naturally). The 'want' (desires) in a person is on a constant chase and makes you tired, ie. unhappy. Avoid relationships until you've been built up. You've been lucky so far you haven't met a woman who wanted to take long-term advantage of you. If you keep looking without being built up, you'll basically only draw the same type until you're no longer lucky.
 

ForgiveMeGod

Active member
Nov 11, 2024
775
244
43
#11
Oh, I have too.

"A woman is a source of bewilderment to man... simply because he does not see beyond his own pleasure." -Leslie Stewart.

That means that the reason men don't understand women is because men are too infatuated with women. If you can find the man in you and shut up the boy who's always crying for mommy (ie. comfort from a woman, quite literally), then you can understand women and not have to struggle with relationships again. That's the brief way of putting it. There's more but that's it. And you'll also be happy. People, male and female, who walk around constantly desiring things are terribly miserable. The trap is to want more and more... but it's people's constant wants that keep them miserable. I've been in situations where I had nothing but was happier than the rich people around me. Why? Because I managed my wants/desires. I had wants/desires but not a huge count. The people around me naturally had a huge 'want count'. They couldn't figure out that their constant desires and greed and covetousness was in fact what made them so unhappy.

Put your want(s) in a headlock, rear naked choke, arm triangle, guillotine (choose one) and you'll suddenly be free of constant desire and with it constant unhappiness. It's fascinating how this really is the way it works: the more you chase, the more tired you are (naturally). The 'want' (desires) in a person is on a constant chase and makes you tired, ie. unhappy. Avoid relationships until you've been built up. You've been lucky so far you haven't met a woman who wanted to take long-term advantage of you. If you keep looking without being built up, you'll basically only draw the same type until you're no longer lucky.
How is one built up? You mean knowing who I am in Christ? There is a guy on here I’ve been talking to, willing to guide me into revealing my identity in Christ once again. He is usually busy with work, so I’m hoping he’ll have the time.

in the meantime, I’ll just be continuing listening to scripture to build my faith. It took quite a hit recently, cause I believe that I had and still have possible demonic influence from friends and family. I downloaded instagram and created an account. Immediately, enemies started following me on there. So I just deleted my account right away.

So far, I watched a video on a deliverance this morning that was out of this world. Something people probably saw in Jesus’ day of demonic spirits leaving people’s bodies. If you are at all interested, the video is in the thread ‘demonic influences’. It’s one of those videos that seems to be kept hidden and for good reason, according to the enemies perspective. I wish every church in America did that. You would really see the world change if that were to take place.
 

ForgiveMeGod

Active member
Nov 11, 2024
775
244
43
#12
Adam was guilty first in letting Eve take charge and now all men are born with the Adamic (fallen) nature competing against the God Nature (raw masculinity) inside them. This fight goes on in all males their entire lives. For the men who agree or side with their original nature, initiative against passivity in this aspect, then they have to face the ire of a lot of females in their lives (who prefer them to be more docile and pliable) along with the Jezebel spirit.

As long as you can see you've been guilty of it, that's a great place to start. God has an answer for that. David's initiative was alive and well to the extent that King Saul wanted him dead, dead, dead. 600 depressed and demoralized (hardly masculine) men came to David while he was fleeing Saul. And the God Nature at work in David, like a candle, reached over and re-lit the masculinity in those men and they became monsters of men from that. God can, by Himself, re-ignite that part of you (and any other God-designed part of you that is dormant) or He can do it through someone or something else, as long as you want it re-ignited.
There is a guy on here that is working hard to re-ignite those flames. It’s really quite spectacular seeing God use him.

I pray God continues to use his people to ignite all of our flames.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
558
113
#13
Is this, then, something God has been talking to you about?

That's not the brightest of questions since God talks to all men/males about this-- christian and non-- but few of them are even aware He's talking to them about it and just sit around passively, in constant cowardice and survival mode.

It's exciting to me. A man will either live his entire life on his knees in the middle of about five statues/gods (eg. his wife, his job, his church, his social group, etc.) or he'll live it standing with God on mountains and listening to God's strategies and instructions on his and others' roles in God's plans to restore the Kingdom to earth. I'm not a kneeling person and so life, not survival, is the only option for me.
Growing hinds feet to skip across the mountains with Father an dSon as Won for me and all others as well.
Growing hinds feet from going through suffering and shame here on earth first to be able to grow those hinds feet, thanks