Would Christ Vote?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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God absolutely appointed Hitler to serve God's purpose. He has appointed everyone that has or has held a position of authority. God also appointed all of the kings, as mentioned in the Old Testament, even though most did evil in the eyes of the Lord.

God has orchestrated all events in the past, the events today, and the events to come. There is prophesy that had to be fulfilled, in the past, now, and in the future. God leaves nothing to chance and is complete control of all final outcomes.
absolutely.

anyone who claims God appointed trump must confess God also appointed biden.
 

justahumanbeing

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2020
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Is not Christ our example?
Should we not follow that example?
Christ was unconcerned with the political system He lived under.
He had bigger fish to multiply.
Shouldn't we?
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

John Chapter 18 Verses 36 and 37.

Beautiful passage. Jesus always concerned himself with God's Kingdom and would want us to be concerned about God's Kingdom (Heaven).

That said, we all have our political ideologies. Our sense of right or wrong in state policy making and we will always want to vote for the parties that promise us that those policies will be met out by the political party if elected to power. So we are all more political than we all think we are. Voting is everything in a democracy. Every vote counts. Those who do vote, vote because they favour the policies or the ideologies of a political party or leader. Those who choose not to vote are happy with the things as they are.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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Fair questions, and I have pondered these things in the past.

Here a just a few things from scripture which immediately come to my mind.

God raised up Pharaoh.
Joseph got into political office by interpreting a dream, and not by way of a public vote.
Daniel also got into political office by interpreting a dream, and not by way of a public vote.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego got into political office after escaping a fiery furnace unscathed, and not by way of public vote.
Many of Israel's kings were called by God, and not by way of a public vote, and others attained to the throne by way of assassination, and not by way of a public vote.
God called Cyrus by name before he was even born.
God foreordained Pilate and Herod, per Psalm 2, to rule in Israel during Christ's incarnation, and Christ told Pilate that he would have no power over him if it had not been given him from above.

On the contrary, in Matthew 15:12-14, Jesus said that the religious leaders of his day had not been planted by God. How did they get in such positions of power? By God's choosing or by man's choosing?

The children of Israel, when given a "vote," chose Barabbas over Jesus.

Do you understand what I am saying?
The problem is, in all those instances, human decisions still took place. Joseph and Daniel etc. still had to be appointed by their respective rulers. None of them simply dropped in to place from out of the blue and I'm sure you don't think God suddenly possessed those rulers and made the decision for them.

I think I understand what you are saying but I wonder if you do?

Right now, Donald Trump is the ordained ruler of the USA. That means almost half of you (who voted) defied God's will and those who didn't vote, refused to corporate with God's will.

I'm sure you won't want to see it that way, but based on a black and white rendering of "God's will be done", the situation can be interpreted that way.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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The problem is, in all those instances, human decisions still took place. Joseph and Daniel etc. still had to be appointed by their respective rulers. None of them simply dropped in to place from out of the blue and I'm sure you don't think God suddenly possessed those rulers and made the decision for them.

I think I understand what you are saying but I wonder if you do?

Right now, Donald Trump is the ordained ruler of the USA. That means almost half of you (who voted) defied God's will and those who didn't vote, refused to corporate with God's will.

I'm sure you won't want to see it that way, but based on a black and white rendering of "God's will be done", the situation can be interpreted that way.
Trump isn't the ordained "ruler" of anything; that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. He's an elected servant of the people. I don't even see him as our "leader." Just because someone has been elected to govern, that doesn't automatically make them a leader.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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Trump isn't the ordained "ruler" of anything; that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. He's an elected servant of the people. I don't even see him as our "leader." Just because someone has been elected to govern, that doesn't automatically make them a leader.
You don't think God is in control? That things can happen without His permission?

ps. in my world a ruler is a servant
 
Nov 14, 2024
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The problem is, in all those instances, human decisions still took place. Joseph and Daniel etc. still had to be appointed by their respective rulers. None of them simply dropped in to place from out of the blue and I'm sure you don't think God suddenly possessed those rulers and made the decision for them.
Per Genesis 37:5-10, we know that God gave Joseph two dreams concerning his political rulership many years before it came to pass. We also know that God later had Joseph interpret Pharaoh's dream which he had similarly received from God, and that is what placed Joseph in the political position which God had foreordained him to be in.

Daniel also obtained his political position after interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's dream which God had given him. Although I would not call this "God suddenly possessing those rulers," the direct influence of God can clearly be seen in these instances for those who do not shut their eyes to it, and no human "votes" were needed.

As God later said to Nebuchadnezzar by means of the interpretation of another dream that he had received from God:

Dan 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Dan 4:25
That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Dan 4:32
And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

The most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will.

When God tells me that he needs my cooperation in this matter, then I will obey him. Until then, I will focus my attention on spreading the gospel that the hearts of men might be changed by it.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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You don't think God is in control? That things can happen without His permission?

ps. in my world a ruler is a servant
I find this to be an unusual question in that you seem to be the one who thinks that God is not in control, and that he needs the cooperation of voters to bring his appointed rulers into power.

Who voted to anoint David as king?

For that matter, who voted to anoint Jesus as both King of kings and Lord of lords?

In Jesus' case, per the opening verses of Psalm 2, the Roman soldiers, the children of Israel, King Herod, and Pontius Pilate all conspired together to crucify him, and God laughed derisively at them while informing them that Christ would still be his appointed King upon his holy hill of Zion.

So much for the will of the people...
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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People looking for a king to rule over them is probably the main reason Donald got elected.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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I find this to be an unusual question in that you seem to be the one who thinks that God is not in control, and that he needs the cooperation of voters to bring his appointed rulers into power.
Then you are not understanding what I'm saying.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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People looking for a king to rule over them is probably the main reason Donald got elected.
Or they were looking for someone who would listen to their concerns and would act on them.

Trump spoke about closing the border, cutting waste and getting inflation down and lowering the cost of living.

Harris spoke about ... well, still trying to decipher what she was saying ... but generally the Democrats spoke of democracy is in danger and Trump is Hitler.

I'm an Aussie so I have no vested interest, politically or emotionally, in your politics but anyone with half a brain could see Harris was nowhere near capable as President of the US.

As far as I can see the only Harris lead the people of America followed was to "unburden itself of what has been" and that was the smartest thing they did.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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I find this to be an unusual question in that you seem to be the one who thinks that God is not in control, and that he needs the cooperation of voters to bring his appointed rulers into power.
The voters themselves are in fact invested with that authority from above. It's not that he "needs" it. He willed it, or otherwise it would not be so.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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The voters themselves are in fact invested with that authority from above. It's not that he "needs" it. He willed it, or otherwise it would not be so.
In fact?

Show me in scripture where God willed for people to vote.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
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absolutely.

anyone who claims God appointed trump must confess God also appointed biden.
That is true God uses them for Judgment and blessing

Obama and Biden were Judgement on the United States. Trump is Grace to the United States. America must continue to repent, and it is, but we have a lot of work to do. It is going to get worse, but revival is coming too.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Trump isn't the ordained "ruler" of anything; that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. He's an elected servant of the people. I don't even see him as our "leader." Just because someone has been elected to govern, that doesn't automatically make them a leader.
A leader is someone who leads.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,982
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but generally the Democrats spoke of democracy is in danger and Trump is Hitler.
just like the republicans said about Obama lol - and Harris, too, except the Hitler bit was missing. instead she was compared to Karl Marx.

it's meaningless, just a sales pitch.
sex sells better than anything, but after that, hatred, and third best, fear.

these things are hollow tactics to gain the trust of idiots, and they work tremendously well, because guess what we humans are?