Understanding God’s election

While I agree with your conclusion, your response still doesn't deal with 1 Corinthians 12:3. What does it add to the totality of scripture?

He was free enough that he was given freedom to eat from every tree in Eden but then warned clearly about one deadly fruit that would cause death . Than placed in Eden by the lord . With the tree he was earned about and then later

“Otherwise, he would not and could not have sinned.”

didnt satan have something to do with causing it though ? Didn’t he change something sister and then they sinned ? Didn’t he corrupt thier belief and thinking ? Is t that actuwkly the trigger that caused them to be exiled and cast out of Eden where God had just placed them and told them “ you are free to eat of any tree but must not eat of this tree or you’ll die “

Isnt it proof Adam was free that God gave him freedom and I formed him then Adam chose what God said not to do ???

If he wasn’t free if God was controlling his actions he would have just obeyed right ? That’s what God commanded certainly god didn’t sin for Adam right ? Adams freedom was exploited by Satan through eve sister this is the moment that triggered the fall

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, ( God had told them it was certainly death if they ate it now after this false doctrine denying a gods own word about the fruit she sees it as good food ? What has happened sister is this how they already thought ? Or were tbier thiughts corrupted aboit God and the fruit ?)

and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what if eves belief about the fruit would have remained as what it was before satans lie ? What if eve had stuck with what God said about the fruit ?

“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he lied and told her another story about the fruit contrary to a gods word then she saw the fruit as harmless and good for them and her actions followed her belief

as long as she believed what God said she never ate the fruit and he never ate the fruit when Satan deceived her to believe it was good for them she then ate the fruit

they always were free but later man became slaves to the nature of sin , jesus promises freedom again in the gospel and life and a return to paradise with him and the tree of life they lost

adam wasn’t perfect sis i think that’s a key point in scripture , he was free though to choose good or evil I think that’s also a key point

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭

How could God ever hold anyone accountable like he says he will do and shows he does do , if nothing we do is really us doing it why would he then judge us by only the things we have done and said ? If we aren’t free judgement doesn’t make any sense

apart of mans design is to be free , Satan enclaves man tbrough deception and sin Jesus came to restore us to freedom offering it to us in the gospel

Paul’s explaination of spiritual gifts ? And the distribution in the church ?

“Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He goes in to some fascinating points about spiritual gifts but not sure how it fits in our talk .

Faith is bestowed from God upon His saved elect just as true repentance is also bestowed upon them. All of the attributes associated to salvation come to them from God as free gifts with man only as the recipient. Is that what you are saying?

Romans 2:4-11 NIV
[4] Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? [5] But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. [6] God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” [7] To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. [8] But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. [9] There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; [10] but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

For God does not show favoritism.


Why doesn't he ever just say " if yir elect you'll be saved if I don't elect you your doomed ? Instead he keeps giving man a choice between life and death .....saying choose life. Telling us of the good and warning us if the bad then saying believe me and be saved ?

Actually decipher, in rereading my prior reply to you, I'm not satisfied with it. I should have included that, yes, it cannot be refused and once given, cannot be lost; neither would anyone desire to (were that even possible, which, it isn't). Neither can someone give it to themselves. It comes solely as God's unchangeable gift unto His elect through Jesus Christ.
I must be tired because I'm still not satisfied with it but hope you get what I'm trying to say - that all is by/from God; nothing by us.

Brother I don't have an issue with saying the holy spirit is the source of our life and salvation , I just am saying that's not a reason to avoid what he plainly teaches us in the gospel about our own place and responsibility in all this, if we keep saying Gods gonna do it for us which skk glory to Jesus for what he's done that saves us but if we keep waiting for God to do it for us , we might miss what he's saying to do and be saved ....his calling in the gospel sent to us all full of life and salvation







after we receive his spirit we lost our excuse that we cant do good we're just sinners controlled by lust and greed pride and self ect we become Gods people and walk in his will now we're called into it after we believe like here Jesus isn't saying this to non believers but to those who believed

John 8:31-32 NIV
[31] To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Yea how did Adam disobey if he wasn't free to do so ? Freedom is all I'm saying he had sister not saying he was perfect ....or that God didn't know the outcome ....that doesn't change anything for us that Gid knows the outcome if he doesn't explain it to us, we don't know it. We still have to make choices in our own lives like Adam and eve did the causes are many sime make bad choices because if addictions others because of need or necessaries others for other various reasons deceived or misinformed ect

But mankind was given dominion sister we weren't slaves in Gods plan sister we were the hiers of and rulers in earth princes and princess' of the earth that's what Gid designed man to be in genesis one he never created us to be genesis six when he repents and decides to destroy mankind ....that's mans free will having been corrupted by Satan's lies and I fkuence through the transgression in Eden

God does say it. He tells us that it was His divine prerogative and pleasure to save whom He would but not everyone. He makes clear that in being God, and having brought forth salvation solely by Himself, He owes no justification nor explanation to anyone
but to inform us that the choice was His alone. We, as a fallen people, are all sinners, are deserving of judgement. That certain people escape it who in no way deserve it, testifies to His exceeding mercy and grace.

[Rom 9:11, 13-16, 18-24 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth ...
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Adam was not only free to sin but he was definitely going to, because Jesus was not plan B. Not that you said he was (LOL) but you know, he was of the natural world and as much in need of being born again as we are. Except for him it would not be again, would it? But you get the point, right? The Tree of Life was right there but Adam chose death by putting himself on the throne, just as God knew he would. Some say it was out of his love for Eve and in this way Adam is a type of Christ because he gave his life for her... and that may all sound fine and dandy and even a little romantic but we are not told that in Scripture, so I would not hang my hat on it, and we can't say for sure why he listened to his wife and not God, but I contend it was because he was of the natural world, and Scripture does actually have an awful lot to say about the condition of the natural man... and yes, that is post fall. Some even say Adam and Eve already ate from the Tree of Life but Scripture does not make that plain and actually more plainly rather speaks against it. I was looking at a verse earlier today, this one:


1 John 3:8
And wondering what implications it held if any for Adam. I am aware that some go way out on
that line of thinking to the serpent seed doctrines, but I am not going there. And I do wonder
how much the fear of death played into their decision, for that is spoken of in Scripture also, but
then, again, there was the Tree of Life! Man is not the smartest beast, tho he may like to think he is...

Again, I don't disagree with anything you said. The point I was trying to establish isn't that we shouldn't pursue God in every way possible. I believe we should. I'm considering at what point this actually becomes true of us and what exists in us that disallows this and what happens to us that changes this. In other words, at what point it is possible for an individual to do all you say.

Yes friend. I am the average person and I cant wrap my head around it. It all stops at the commands for me, if God tells us to declare His wonderful works, spread the Gospel, turn away from our sins, live righteous and holy lives................ buuuuut, its God that has to enable us to do it. Then the only conclusion I can come to is: The reason Christians arent doing what they are supposed to is cause GOD isnt enabling them to do it. So its God's fault, not man's fault. Thats where I get on guard dog mode for my Lord and say "it aint so, its our fault, not the Lord's fault!"

Honesty, yes, but more so harmonization of Scripture, comparable to Einstein's goal in physics, but this is not rocket science, so I expect you will be able to understand as long as your heart is not calloused. The problem is your wording: God casts people into hell, which sounds like an evil God tortures innocent people for eternity.

However, evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per JN 17:12, RM 9:22, GL 6:8, PHP 3:19, 2THS 1:9 & 2PT 3:7).

God does according to his will, got it. Gods not willing that any should perish. Man has a choice.

I understand this persons thinking. Imagine a God who says he is perfect justice but he is also perfect love. Then that God uses his feeling to rule out justice to some and save specific others he chose. Is that a God of love? May it never be. Love can never overrule justice but it can find a way to appease justice. But if love is not offered to all is it really love?

[quoe]We just must take God at His word.
He blesses those He wishes to, and He leaves the rest to their own devices.[/quote]
God blesses those who love him and obey him that’s what the word says.
It also says he is willing that no one should perish but all should come to life. He said himself he was sent not to judge the world. But so the world had an opportunity to be saved
He finally told us he saves those who come. It is by grace anyone is saved. But that grace offering must be received in faith
Jesus made it clear when he said he was sent to the world who in the wild would be saved. He who believes is not condemned (they are saved by faith they are not again). He who does not believe is condemned already. Not because God did not chose them but because they did not believe

[/quote]The OP explains that God honors His justice,
and His justice is that sinners deserve to go to hell.[/quote]what the op failed to explain is that all have sinned but more importantly all are in Adam and god made a way for all to be in Christ or rescued from that sin and the wage. By trusting in him
it failed to explain Gods love
The thing that makes the one true God stand apart from other Gods is he loved all his created beings called mankind so much he came to die for it
He further proved his love by not removing free will. But enabling it by giving that creation the freedom to say yes lord or continue to reject and say no Lord.

I so pray you did not tell that poor woman what you told me. You see God did not send the man to hell. God loved that
Man and gave his life for him. He them gave that man opportunity to believe and helped him understand the truth of this important decision so he has no excuse
God did not punish they guy in reality he sent himself to hell because he rejected the savior like many Jews did thinking they did not need a savior

God tells us to love our enemies unconditionally. Kind of hard to fathom God would tell us to do what he refuses to do

Of course he is our example. Because he loved his enemy every last one of them. And offers them all salvation

This could not be true if you were in Christ from the foundation of the world. This would be a lie.

Ephesians 2:
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Yet God has called us all to choose to believe God in risen Son or not
Any scriptures on that you might have, love the call you are in and do, thank you
This still shows me God has called all, otherwise the cross of Son would not have ever happened. We are left with to believe God or not each person consciously so.
Each person in first birth is born with he knowledge of good and evil, that is the inheritance I see in first birth for every person born of flesh and blood nature are born to know good and evil also. Then choose consciously so
We have those here today that are doing the work for God, yet by their motives, they might not be in and yet look so ever good don't they, that includes me, being first born of flesh and blood also.
The Devil comes to Church as an Angel of Light, Evil uses people to see things like he showed Jesus in the desert to tempt him and failed with Jesus, who knew and knows the truth of scriptures. The enemy of God Father of risen Son twists scripture to his own benefit, Pride and Quilt are his tools, that Son in his death, burial, resurrection took away once for all to either believe see and be new in truth or not believe and yet say they do believe, yet only to their self gain.
God will say it one day straight to anyone of that accord, "Go away I do not know you, you who work Iniquity"
I am learning new daily from God Father in risen Son daily thanks

Thank you as we each grow in Father's Spirit and Truth

Interesting, to think to limit God, I think not possible. I think God limits God-self, Chose the Love beyond human understanding (1 Cor 13:4-7) to give us to see it and choose to believe that or not. Evil is amongst the people

1. Matthew 13:25
   but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Matthew 13:29
   But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Matthew 13:30
   Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

God's love remains over everything else, proven to me in risen Son for us where new life as born again is at for everyone to choose to believe God or not. Then begin new to see what is done for them first and willingly quit what is not good for them, yet have to begin new as that old habit does not let go right away. Yet it will if one will not quit belief ass in Col. 1:21-23 tells me

if we, the people do not have free choice to choose God or not, then God cannot claim to love us all or can God? I think not, for if we do not have free choice to choose then we be puppets period, thank you

YES, Adam was free to disobey. And he did.....to save his beloved wife. And he ALSO was FREE to repent and confess....and he did.

Adam chose to sin (a wrong choice) of his own free will.....WHILE HE WAS SINLESS AND PERFECT in full fellowship with God.

And THEN, AFTER HE FELL Adam ***chose*** to do the RIGHT THING of his own free will.....by preventing Eve from eating from the tree of life, and refusing to eat from the tree of life himself (which was a devastating temptation under the circumstances! Adam by his own sheer will power refused). And the Adam did the RIGHT THING by testifying TRUTHFULLY (as did the Woman) at the trial of Satan.

Which of course demolishes this "total depravity" "total inability" nonsense once and for all.
As well as the entire Rube Goldberg machine of Augustinian Calvinist bogus fallacies with it.

And yes @Cameron143 , there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that both Adam and Eve are saved.
God codified this redemptive event purposefully, so that WE might know the path and surety of salvation.
You have refused to hear these truths already presented, so I have little confidence that you would care
to hear them now. Too bad so sad. For you.

And both Adam and Eve are saved exactly the same way anyone else is saved, including "doomed" Canaanites.
A FREE WILL confession, repentance and a plea for mercy to the True God, who then gives the petitioner the "TRUE TOKEN", the covenant of life and peace by the Blood of the Lamb.

[Jos 2:9 KJV]
And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

[Jos 2:10 KJV]
For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

[Jos 2:11 KJV]
And as soon as we had heard [these things], our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he [is] God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

[Jos 2:12 KJV]
Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token:

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Do yourself a HUGE favor and download these to your phone, listen carefully, and RELIEVE yourself of the assault of these age old Satanic lies. Calvinist thinking is a snare meant to entangle the foolish and lazy. And presents a false gospel and blasphemes the
character of God. And repeats the primordial lie of Satan that God is evil, the originator of evil, and author of evil, and is a wicked unfit judge.

Adam And Eve... What really happened?

1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think

Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?

Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear

Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought

Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?

Until saved it is impossible to truly believe, as true belief comes as a byproduct of being saved; it does not lead to being saved.
Man cannot save himself. The Bible is clear that Christ alone is Savior. So, by that, we are confronted with basically a very simple proposition: do we believe the Bible that it is Christ who saves, or do we believe that it is by man. It is impossible for both sides of the proposition be true at the same time, although many would like it to be so.
Man, and Satan were responsible for man's wretched spiritual state, not God. That He chose any of the undeserving unto salvation
testifies to His exceeding mercy and grace, not to our wisdom in choosing Him. If it were based upon our choice, then salvation would be by our work, yet the Bible is also clear that no one can be saved by their works but only by/from God's grace.
So, just as the physically dead cannot entertain the issues of physical life, neither can the spiritually dead (which we all were prior to being saved) entertain the issues of spiritual life - we must first be indwelled by God (by being saved), by whom, are all things pertaining to salvation given to us.