I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.

Why do you think I was talking down? I was merely stating relevant facts.

You've never heard "saved" used in any sense other than one certain theological sense?

What is widely accepted is not always correct or universally accepted.

You are not God and cannot make that decision. Saying “they were not saved in the first place” is just a “loophole” to try to get around scriptures that plainly teach that Christian’s CAN BE LOST.. Like Hebrews 6:4-6. This is clearly talking about Christian’s who have left God—even you admit that. But you try to get around that by saying “they weren’t saved in the first place.” But you are just a man—not God. You can’t know that and God has not said that . That is nothing more than man’s word. No right thinking Christian should fall for that. Besides there are many more scriptures that teach a saved person can be lost. Exodus 32:33 GOD SAYS “WHOEVER SINS I WILL BLOT HIM OUT OF MY BOOK.” Are you going to tell God that man was not saved in the first place? Obviously, you have to be IN God’s book in order to be blotted OUT of God’s book.

OK. So can you clearly define what you think you mean by saved and unsaved in your OP ?.

Because I read your post.

Within the context of Christianity, no, as I already stated. Not in 30s years.

Regardless of your opinion when people refer to being saved as a Christian, its quite clear what is intended.

There's no loophole. My remarks comport with scripture.

Those Elect of God can never be lost.

That's God's seal. Not my opinion.

This is not something one can simply answer in one post. You would never have asked this if it was so clearly written. Some do like to point out Hebrews where it seems in those two chapters one can lose salvation. Please share how when you have ever done or are this now "once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit". Just the part "shared in the holy Spirit". That alone will be so confusing. Well what about the Holy Spirit.. you know Him? He talks.. He gives the gifts to whom He wants. Baptised in the holy Spirit and speak in tongues do we? My point that alone so many will know yet others will doubt its gone its dead. You don't even understand "being enlightened". Something else that others will say "no what that really means". Ooh sorry we can't for get "tasted the heavenly gift" which is? Yeah..

Like the other one in Heb where we again need to look at who Paul was talking to. He was talking to Jewish believers that when they sinned they would go back and try to offer a sacrifice for that sin. Paul or really the sweet holy Spirit through Paul said there is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ cannot die again by doing this you put Christ to open shame.

It does make one wonder how many are really saved since they seem to believe they can walk away. I had those thoughts when He first found me. Think about that.. we know its written He chose us wrote us in the Lambs book before the foundation of the world and some talk about how you can just walk away by a simple choice. Share then what you know.. share about who what He really is. Fact you do not enough to walk away. One would have to know Him with out any doubts what so ever like Satan does. He freely walked away he knew seen God in all His power and glory and freely walked away. So share what you know.. yeah we know nothing.. never seen Him on His throne in all His glory and power... not even touching the sweet sweet holy Spirit.

See you talk about something no offese you know nothing about.. we all fit in to that some where. He GOD think.. left heaven.. became man when all of us hated Him.. yet He loved us so much He died for us. Just that.. what do you what do we know that we know that we know of Him? For me? 63 yet 50+ years in the lord. Every time I mean every time I believe I know something.. He does something says something.. many times from my family.. people here.. say something ...ooh wow all these years.. how did I miss that? This has never stopped. I have not just tasted.. man.. I am on my 1000000th plate and still going. So.. should have added.. "never had these thoughts" once saved always or you can lose your salvation. Haha.. not going to be asking some man about this

You do realize you just both contradicted and exampled your criticism of my prior observation and by your post at its beginning and end respectively

And one of the truths I learned beyond how to be saved was that (to answer the OP's question for this thread) the NT writers taught the possibility of apostasy!

only way anyone truly saved can become unsaved is if God fails.

Philippians 2:13


... and God never fails: He is God!

Here is Bible proof (22 scriptures) for why I believe the Bible teaches that a saved person can be lost if he leaves God or lives in sin:

Exodus 32:33-“Whoever has sinned against Me, I WILL BLOT HIM OUT OF MY BOOK.

1Chron. 28:9-“…if you forsake Him, He will CAST YOU OFF.”

Lamentations 5:16-“The crown has FALLEN from our head. Woe to us for we have sinned.
Verse 21-“Turn us back to you O Lord, and we will be RESTORED; …unless you have utterly rejected us.

Acts 8:20-24-Simon had believed and been baptized, then sinned. Peter said, “your money PERISH with you. Repent and pray—why? Because he was in danger of “perishing!”

Romans 11:20-22-“Behold the goodness and severity of God. On those who FELL, severity, but toward you goodness. IF you CONTINUE in goodness , otherwise, YOU TOO, will be CUT OFF!”

1 Cor. 9:24-27-Paul the apostle says he had to discipline his body , lest after he had preached to others, he would be “DISQUALIFIED” in the race for an imperishable crown.

1Cor. 10:12-“Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he FALLS!”

Gal. 5:4-“…you are FALLEN from Grace!”

1 Tim. 1:19-some had “SHIPWRECKED” their faith.

Hebrews 2:1-“Lest we DRIFT AWAY.”

Hebrews 3:12- “Beware BRETHREN (Christian’s) lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in. DEPARTING FROM the living God….lest any of you (Christian’s) be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ ( Christian’s). IF. we. HOLD STEADFAST to the end.”

Revelation 2:10-“Be faithful unto death and you will receive the crown of life.

Hebrews 4:11-“Lest anyone FALL…” ( from disobedience)

Hebrews 10:35-38- “Do not CAST AWAY your confidence, which has great reward….you need ENDURANCE (be faithful unto death) . Verse 38- 39-if anyone DRAWS BACK…those who DRAW BACK TO PERDITION.”

Hebrews 6:4-6-Those who were once “enlightened”, “tasted the heavenly gift”, “ have become partakers of the Holy Spirit”, and tasted the good word of God, IF THEY FALL AWAY…”

Hebrews 12:15-“Lest anyone FALL SHORT of the GRACE OF GOD”

2 Peter 3:17-“Lest you FALL from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked.”

2John 1:8-“Look to yourselves that we do not LOSE those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.”

Rev. 3:11-“ HOLD FAST to what you have, that NO-ONE MAY TAKE YOUR CROWN. (To the Church)

Rev. 3:3-5-“You have received and heard, HOLD FAST and repent. There are a few in the church at Sardis, “that have not defiled their clothes. THEY are the ones who “will walk with me in white.” I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE. Jesus talking here. If He would never blot out their name, then that woujd be a lie! Jesus does not lie—neither does He make empty threats.

Rev. 3:16-Jesus tells the Christians in the church that are lukewarm, “I will vomit you out of my mouth.” They make him sick!!

Rev.2:4-5-“Remember FROM WHERE YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent!”

I believe the evidence is overwhelming that A saved person can FALL (stated in 9 scriptures) from his saved state and be lost IF he doesn’t “endure”, and remain “faithful”. to the end of his life. Acts 17:11 they searched the scriptures to see if these things were so. I invite you to study and prove this to yourself.

all apostasy is unbelief,
all unbelief is never having known Him.

i can sooner forget the sky is blue than God is good.

You are so right. See my post where I give 22 scriptures from all over the New Testament that teach that a saved person can be lost.

The Good Shepherd does not lose even a single one of His sheep.

the idol shepherd devours every one of his.

no sheep has two shepherds.

not one of these speak of undoing God's work.
they speak of unbelief, and of rewards.
i don't understand yet why your goal is to convince people of the inability and unfaithfulness of God. my best guess is terrible, fearful dread.

by the way i haven't heard from you in several weeks - are you still saved or are you eternally damned with no possible hope of reconciliation yet?
give it time.

you preach there is no return from a single slip of your willpower and personal inner strength of self preservation, so i really do hope you have been as perfect as God every millisecond.

yeah good luck

to rise up again -
to be raised up

have some faith Beck,
for goodness sake
don't make Him do all the work

to some were given the ministry of discouragement

which book?
how many books are there?
study!

I was taught this growing up. Received the Spirit of Christ.
Studied the word, came to the conclusion I did not believe in eternal security.
And then I backslid. (I'm not suggesting the one caused the other, merely stating the order of events)
Kept sliding.
30 years later.
Yah drives me to my knees.
He delivers me from the net of the fowler.
I begin my studies again.
And now I see this issue in a completely different light.

Whatever you think of John Calvin or his five points. From the scriptures, and confirmed through the real life experiences of myself and many others , I can wholeheartedly say that he absolutely nailed the Perseverance of the Saints.

Angels of Blight

The situation is a bit more nuanced than what you describe here. The Early Christian Church from the 3rd century forward was Catholic, there's not much we can do about that. It was a very different time theologically, and politically. Basically everything about that time was so unlike our present organized religious and political systems, that to paint with such a broad brush just doesn't seem fair. The three major branches of organized Christendom held enormous power, and particularly the Roman franchise, used that power in unforgivable ways. And still do, you won't get an argument from me there. But labeling ancient church fathers as some kind of heretics because they were Catholic, when everyone was Catholic. I'm sorry, I'm at a loss for words. And that doesn't happen often.