I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.

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do you believe you can be unsaved after salvation?

  • Total voters
    46
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Banned
#141
Sep 15, 2019
9,989
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#141
enril said:
can we keep the arguing down?
I am also looking for biblical quotes. not convictions.
I fall firmly into believing that you can get unsaved, because I did choose not to accept christ. as a concious decision. like, i thought, i dont want it for myself. maybe someday. i believe it to be truth, but i do not accept the truth. I still care about others being and getting saved, but i myself do not want ti.
until I got saved, and truly believe his love now.
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When we believe on Him, we are born again. Can a baby ever be unborn?

When we believe on Him, our hearts are circumcised. Can a circumcision ever be undone?

When we believe on Him, we are saved. The answer to the above is the same as the answer to "Can a believer ever become unsaved?"

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Romans 2:28 - 29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Colossians 2:11 - 15
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
 
M

MeowFlower

Well-known member
#142
Aug 25, 2024
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#142
2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:
Why did He give that parable then which is about two types of Christians waiting for Him? And why are you ignoring it?


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You don't understand it. You use what you don't understand but think you do so to charge Christians with being wrong in their faith and understanding.

I cannot lead you to correct your error. Only God's Holy Spirit can open your consciousness to know the words of The Word .
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#143
May 15, 2019
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#143
Magenta said:
Do you mean any of these? The Trinity; the Incarnation, Passion, and Resurrection of Christ;
the Second Coming and Last Judgment of Christ; the remission of sins; eternal life?[/QUOTE

Yes, those are things I believe in but NOT because the RCC teaches them in their doctrine. I believe them because GOD teaches them in His word.

The RCC also teaches many things that are not taught in the Bible, that causes me not to trust them with my soul’s salvation. It’s the things they teach that are NOT scriptural that cause me to reject their doctrine, not the few things that teach that we agree on.
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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#144
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
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#144
Beckworth said:
Yes, those are things I believe in but NOT because the RCC teaches them in their doctrine. I believe them because GOD teaches them in His word.

The RCC also teaches many things that are not taught in the Bible, that causes me not to trust them with my soul’s salvation. It’s the things they teach that are NOT scriptural that cause me to reject their doctrine, not the few things that teach that we agree on.
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The question concerned ANY doctrine. Of course we believe some of the same things. Acting as if we do not is erroneous.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#145
May 15, 2019
673
223
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#145
MeowFlower said:
You don't understand it. You use what you don't understand but think you do so to charge Christians with being wrong in their faith and understanding.

I cannot lead you to correct your error. Only God's Holy Spirit can open your consciousness to know the words of The Word .
Click to expand...
MeowFlower said:
You don't understand it. You use what you don't understand but think you do so to charge Christians with being wrong in their faith and understanding.

I cannot lead you to correct your error. Only God's Holy Spirit can open your consciousness to know the words of The Word .
Click to expand...

We can know the words of God by reading the Bible. If we have to wait on the Holy Spirit to perform some “act” on us then why study at all or why preach? Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel? Why did Paul tell Timothy to STUDY the word of God? 2Tim 2:16. I am afraid you are the one who does not understand.

In the parable of the “Prodigal Son”, the father in that parable clearly represents God. The wayward son is his child, but has left his father and is living in sin. In This parable, Jesus is teaching us that a child of God can leave God and be lost. It is showing us how loving God is in that if that lost child repents and comes back, God will lovingly forgive him and restore him to his former state.

God plainly says that He will blot a sinner out of the book of life. Exodus 32:32. Rev. 2:10 only promises a crown to those who remain faithful to the end of their life. Even Paul the apostle says he has to be careful and control himself or he can become “DISQUALIFIED” and lose this spiritual race we are in. Hebrews talks about Christians who are saved returning to the world and living in sin are like a dog who has gotten rid (vomited) of the things that made him sick but turns around and eats them again. He says, “IF THEY FALL AWAY” it is impossible to renew them again ( to what? To a saved state) because they have crucified the Christ all over again. And you believe these people won’t be lost??? It’s you who does not understand—wait, I take that back. Because it’s not that an atheist does not understand Genesis 1:1 where it says in the beginning was God. He has no trouble UNDERSTANDING that, he just does NOT BELIEVE it. And likewise, it’s not your lack of understanding that is the problem, it’s your lack of belief in what God says in the Bible.

Look at the language in Hebrews:. Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard LEST WE DRIFT AWAY. Chat. 2) “…entering His rest…let us fear lest any one ..COME SHORT of it.” ; be careful to enter that “rest”; “Beware BRETHREN ( Christian’s) lest there be an evil heart of unbelief in you inDEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD;” (4) “…be careful to enter that rest lest ANYONE FALL according to….disobedience. Just to name a few.
 
M

MeowFlower

Well-known member
#146
Aug 25, 2024
883
406
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youtube.com
#146
Beckworth said:
We can know the words of God by reading the Bible. If we have to wait on the Holy Spirit to perform some “act” on us then why study at all or why preach? Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel? Why did Paul tell Timothy to STUDY the word of God? 2Tim 2:16. I am afraid you are the one who does not understand.

In the parable of the “Prodigal Son”, the father in that parable clearly represents God. The wayward son is his child, but has left his father and is living in sin. In This parable, Jesus is teaching us that a child of God can leave God and be lost. It is showing us how loving God is in that if that lost child repents and comes back, God will lovingly forgive him and restore him to his former state.

God plainly says that He will blot a sinner out of the book of life. Exodus 32:32. Rev. 2:10 only promises a crown to those who remain faithful to the end of their life. Even Paul the apostle says he has to be careful and control himself or he can become “DISQUALIFIED” and lose this spiritual race we are in. Hebrews talks about Christians who are saved returning to the world and living in sin are like a dog who has gotten rid (vomited) of the things that made him sick but turns around and eats them again. He says, “IF THEY FALL AWAY” it is impossible to renew them again ( to what? To a saved state) because they have crucified the Christ all over again. And you believe these people won’t be lost??? It’s you who does not understand—wait, I take that back. Because it’s not that an atheist does not understand Genesis 1:1 where it says in the beginning was God. He has no trouble UNDERSTANDING that, he just does NOT BELIEVE it. And likewise, it’s not your lack of understanding that is the problem, it’s your lack of belief in what God says in the Bible.

Look at the language in Hebrews:. Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard LEST WE DRIFT AWAY. Chat. 2) “…entering His rest…let us fear lest any one ..COME SHORT of it.” ; be careful to enter that “rest”; “Beware BRETHREN ( Christian’s) lest there be an evil heart of unbelief in you inDEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD;” (4) “…be careful to enter that rest lest ANYONE FALL according to….disobedience. Just to name a few.
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I think Paul knew what he was talking about in 1st Corinthians 2 and particularly verse 14. As well as whom was giving him his information.
 
2ndTimeIsTheCharm

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
#147
Feb 17, 2023
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#147
MeowFlower said:
You don't understand it. You use what you don't understand but think you do so to charge Christians with being wrong in their faith and understanding.

I cannot lead you to correct your error. Only God's Holy Spirit can open your consciousness to know the words of The Word .
Click to expand...

That's pretty hypocritical of you since you keep avoiding addressing the true meaning of the parable. So you've resorted to making false accusations. It shows that YOU don't submit to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to change your way of living and thinking to conform to Christlikeness.

What does that mean when you don't submit to the Holy Spirit then? He is our seal - proof to God the Father that we belong to Him. We only have Him as our seal if we remain in Him and submit.

So right now, you're just basically one of those people who have a form of godliness without it's power. A foolish virgin who will get shut out if you don't repent and get oil for your lamp (submitting to the Holy Spirit) before the bridegroom comes back. You're not fooling God.


🐨
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#148
Oct 19, 2024
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#148
glf said:
Mt 10: 33: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Gal 5: 4: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Heb 6: 4-6: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
2 Thes 2: 3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
1 Tim 4: 1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Rom 11: 20-22: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Mt 12: 31-32: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Rev 22: 19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
2 Pet 2: 20-21: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
1 Jn 5: 16-17: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
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Growing up as a Southern Baptist I was not taught those verses or those I list below (some are redundant).

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

IOW, once saved NOT necessarily always saved.
 
Webers.Home

Webers.Home

Well-known member
#149
May 28, 2018
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#149
.
● Luke 2:8-11 . . And in the same region there were some shepherds staying
out in the fields, and keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel
of The Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of The Lord shone
around them; and they were terribly frightened.

. . And the angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you
good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people; for today in the
city of David there has been born for you a savior, who is Christ the Lord.

The Greek word translated "savior" basically means a rescuer.

Rescuers typically help people who are in grave distress and/or imminent
danger of death and/or serious injury, and helpless to do anything about it;
e.g. Red Cross, Firemen, Emergency Medical teams, snow patrols, mountain
units, and the Coast Guard and National Guard.

Wouldn't it be awful if those agencies refused to assist desperate folk until
they first proved themselves deserving? Well lucky for everyone that those
agencies work on the basis of need rather than merit.

I think quite a few people are under the impression that Christ is some sort
of probation officer; viz: if people "endure to the end" as they say; then he
grants them a clearance for Heaven. But God forbid they should fail to
satisfy the conditions of their probation because then they're thrown back
to the wolves.

Probation can be likened to a sword of Damocles hanging over people's
heads by a slender thread easily broken by conduct unbecoming. On the
other hand; if Christ is in the business of rescuing people from the wrath of
God in accord with the humane principles underlying normal emergency
services; then yes, I fully agree with the angel that the birth of Christ is
something to get excited about.

And then there is the matter of redemption, which is translated from a Greek
word pertaining to ransoms. Well, in Christianity, the ransom required to
liberate folks from retribution has been paid in full. In other words: Jesus'
crucifixion wasn't some sort of down payment with the balance to be paid if
and/or when folks prove themselves deserving of it.

● Rom 8:34-39 . . Who is he that condemns? Shall Christ Jesus, who died?
More than that, who was raised to life and is at the right hand of God
interceding for us?

. . For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,
neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of
God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The love of God spoken of in that passage is relative to affection rather than
only sympathy and/or pity. For example:

● John 16:27 . .The Father himself loves you because you have loved me
and have believed that I came from God.

The Greek word translated "loves" in that verse pertains to the kind of love
that binds families together.

There was a time when the supreme being utterly despised me; but thanks
to Christ, that disgust has been around to where God actually likes me now.
Pretty amazing.
_
 
psalms22

psalms22

Member
#150
Feb 18, 2019
42
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#150
a once a person is saved they are no longer blind to sin.. if this person's spirit when the person sins doesn't have a problem with going against God and sinning. this Christian has fallen away. as the spirit has chosen sin over Christ which is punishable on Judgement Day. as there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, if this person die like this they will be no forgiveness for them. but if they stopped rebelling against God and return to him he's faithful enough to forgive them.

the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak... amen
 
Webers.Home

Webers.Home

Well-known member
#151
May 28, 2018
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#151
.
● Heb 10:26-27 . . If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received
the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful
expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of
God.

It should go without saying that in a letter written to the author's fellow
Jews, a "knowledge of the truth" would imply instruction in Moses' Law,
which was considered truth for a good many years before Christ.

It's very easy, for Gentiles untrained in Old Testament Jewish law, to err by
assuming the author meant there is no forgiveness of any kind for
knowledgeable sins. But that's a limitation of the old covenant that doesn't
apply to the new. (Acts 13:38-40)

There's a variety of crimes for which Moses Law permits neither ransom nor
pardon; but the author didn't name those because not everybody commits
them. However, everybody does eventually commit a knowledgeable sin of
one sort or another; and those are just as lethal because the Levitical system
has no atonements for them in its catalogue.

● Num 15:30-31 . . But the person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts
defiantly reviles the Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his
people. Because he has spurned the word of the Lord and violated His
commandment, that person shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt.

David committed premeditated adultery and murder, knowing full well that
the law of Moses stipulates the death penalty for both offenses (Ex 21:12
14, Lev 20:10). If, as some insist, there is no forgiveness of any kind for
deliberate sin, then David would've been permanently cut off from God. But
we know he wasn't because his actions with Bathsheba and her husband
were passed over, so to speak. (2Sam 12:13)

If there were no absolution whatsoever for knowledgeable sins-- either in
the old testament or the new --then just what advantage would Christianity
have over Judaism, and what advantage would the new covenant have over
the old if neither offered absolution for knowledgeable sins? There would be
no advantage whatsoever; and the Gospel wouldn't be good news, but
instead, bad news-- in point of fact, Christianity would be so redundant as to
not even be worth the bother.

NOTE: The declaration "no sacrifice for sins is left" simply means Christ's
crucifixion is the final option for knowledgeable sinners.

FAQ: How might someone get in on this final option?

REPLY: Find a quiet place; anywhere will do. Cover you face with your hands
for a sense of connection, and tell God-- under your breath or out loud if you
like --that you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're
pretty sure you never will. Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His
son's death to protect yourself from judgment.
_
 
psalms22

psalms22

Member
#152
Feb 18, 2019
42
20
8
#152
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Romans 6:1-2 (ESV)

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 7:24-25:
“Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.”

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.'

Romans 8:12-13:

“So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live
 
G

glf

Active member
#153
Mar 18, 2023
307
130
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70
#153
GWH said:
Growing up as a Southern Baptist I was not taught those verses or those I list below (some are redundant).

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

IOW, once saved NOT necessarily always saved.
Click to expand...

Amen...
Or look at what the Apostle Paul said about being saved in regards to himself:
1 Cor 9: 27: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Phil 3: 11-14:
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Look once again at 1 Tim 4:1:
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
I also was raised as a Southern Baptist and believed OSAS near as much as I believed in Jesus as my savior, but scripture was opened up to me when I chose to believe the Lord over what I was taught or what man might say. Now, I consider OSAS as the perfect doctrine to allow the babes-in-Christ to remain spiritual babes who disregard the Spirit's leading by ignoring scripture and the growth of their faith, so that they are always close to allowing their faith to fade and slip away, especially during the end times; fulfilling 1 Tim 4:1, sadly!
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#154
Oct 19, 2024
1,830
447
83
#154
glf said:
Amen...
Or look at what the Apostle Paul said about being saved in regards to himself:
1 Cor 9: 27: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Phil 3: 11-14:
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Look once again at 1 Tim 4:1:
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
I also was raised as a Southern Baptist and believed OSAS near as much as I believed in Jesus as my savior, but scripture was opened up to me when I chose to believe the Lord over what I was taught or what man might say. Now, I consider OSAS as the perfect doctrine to allow the babes-in-Christ to remain spiritual babes who disregard the Spirit's leading by ignoring scripture and the growth of their faith, so that they are always close to allowing their faith to fade and slip away, especially during the end times; fulfilling 1 Tim 4:1, sadly!
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I agree. Scriptural teaching was expanded for me as read the entire Bible, first the New English Translation and later the New International Version and learned much beyond the evangelistic sermons our pastor was stuck repeating.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
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Oct 19, 2024
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Eli1 said:
You're a Southern Baptist?
God has already blessed you with many insights brother.
Hallelujah!
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Thanks. I owe my logical interpretation of Scripture to my Dad, who was a mechanical engineer and a Christian because it is the best belief.
 
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PaulThomson

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#157
Oct 29, 2023
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#157
enril said:
can we keep the arguing down?
I am also looking for biblical quotes. not convictions.
I fall firmly into believing that you can get unsaved, because I did choose not to accept christ. as a concious decision. like, i thought, i dont want it for myself. maybe someday. i believe it to be truth, but i do not accept the truth. I still care about others being and getting saved, but i myself do not want ti.
until I got saved, and truly believe his love now.
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You are taking one English translation of a biblical word sOzein, to save, which has a very wide range of meanings in the Bible and infusing it with 2000 years of theological massaging to mean something that the actual word sOzein might occasionally meanin the Bible according to all that theological baggage.
sOzein means to save, deliver, rescue, heal, make whole. Have I ever been healed and lost my healing? Yes. Have I ever been delivered from some addiction and then returned to it? Yes. So I have been "saved" and then "unsaved".

You really meed to be more specific about the meaning you are shoe-horning into the word "saved" in your poll.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#158
Oct 19, 2024
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#158
GWH said:
Thanks. I owe my logical interpretation of Scripture to my Dad, who was a mechanical engineer and a Christian because it is the best belief.
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Re "the best belief" I might add that while conducting a comprehensive comparison of theistic religions is not my desire here, I think any objective truthseeker who compares the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul with the founding scriptures of other religions will reach the same conclusion as I have: The NT is the most credible canon or collection of writings purporting to be a communique from God.

The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as HB 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and RM 1:3-4).
 
enril

enril

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Aug 18, 2024
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#159
PaulThomson said:
You are taking one English translation of a biblical word sOzein, to save, which has a very wide range of meanings in the Bible and infusing it with 2000 years of theological massaging to mean something that the actual word sOzein might occasionally meanin the Bible according to all that theological baggage.
sOzein means to save, deliver, rescue, heal, make whole. Have I ever been healed and lost my healing? Yes. Have I ever been delivered from some addiction and then returned to it? Yes. So I have been "saved" and then "unsaved".

You really meed to be more specific about the meaning you are shoe-horning into the word "saved" in your poll.
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no idea about old words, but the way i was using it was for that kind of saved. although i totally agree with you, it is annoying how we just use words and expect everyone to know what meaning we use.
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

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#160
Sep 17, 2018
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#160
PaulThomson said:
You are taking one English translation of a biblical word sOzein, to save, which has a very wide range of meanings in the Bible and infusing it with 2000 years of theological massaging to mean something that the actual word sOzein might occasionally meanin the Bible according to all that theological baggage.
sOzein means to save, deliver, rescue, heal, make whole. Have I ever been healed and lost my healing? Yes. Have I ever been delivered from some addiction and then returned to it? Yes. So I have been "saved" and then "unsaved".

You really meed to be more specific about the meaning you are shoe-horning into the word "saved" in your poll.
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Firstly enril is 15.
Secondly hes a new Christian.
Thirdly in 30 years I've heard people use the word saved more times than I can imagine, and not once have I seen anyone nitpick about it's meaning. It has been widely known and accepted for decades, maybe longer, that the common use of saved = salvation. In fact i dont believe I've ever once heard any other use of it. If anyone, all this time, has believed that they've never voiced it, to or around me.
Is it not easier, as well as more sensical, to just go with the universally accepted meaning of this word rather than complicate it and talk down to people about it?
 
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