In your opinion do you believe world is about 6000 years old

Re: I've tested her spirits.... She labels her own views as "prophecies" from God (when they aren't)...

If I were testing whether someone has the gift of prophecy, I would begin by keeping in mind the definition of the Greek term from Vine's (condensed): Though much OT prophecy was predictive, it is not necessarily fore-telling, but rather it is the forth-telling of that which cannot be known by natural means. Now that the canon of Scripture has been completed, maintaining that the gift is still needed is problematic, because from that time the gift of teaching God's written revelation has been most necessary.

I would note however, that since this definition is not inerrant, we must follow the instruction in 1 THS 5:20-21 to test what is forth-told, and hold on to what seems good and consistent with Scripture. Other scriptures on this topic include: MT 7:15-20, 24:24, 1 CR 13:8, 14:1-6 & 29-33, RM 12:6, 1JN 4:1-3, 2PT 1:19-2:1, and DT 13:1-5).

Yeah, she didn't pass any of that.


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Of what? That the trench is in the deep ocean or that it's s 35,000 feet deep gorge?

I don't care to carry on a discourse with you anymore. You're just playing stupid games. I'll wait until someone more interesting and mature and INTELLIGENT picks up this thread again.


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Just a note, deep sea trenches are so deep because they are where the oceanic plate and the continental plate come together, not because of the water.

Yes and some canyons also

I feel the same that your playing games though about everything and you talk with no kooth. Indeed no need to continue the discourse.

That's where you think Eden was. The level of absolute certitude with which people assert their positions on this site is utterly astounding.

Well, I'm happy to have astounded you. I was merely stating that because of where the Word says Eden was. .... unless you contend that the Tigris and Euphrates rivers have moved continents on us..
and, yes, before you are astounded again, I DO realize that continets have shifted over the centuries, but do YOU know where they were that many thousands of years ago? Please.... astound me....
And, you are going to have to invest in a bunch of new knickers, as you seem to get yours twisted up so easily.... I think K-Mart is having a sale....

I have a question for you as I dig through the AIG articles.

Answers In Genesis

Chapter 23 Aren’t Millions of Years Required for Geological Processes?

Bretz was trying to explain a whole series of deep, abandoned canyons (cut in hard, basaltic bedrock), dry waterfalls, deep plunge pools, hanging valleys, large stream ripples, gravel bars, and large exotic boulders. The Scabland formed as a glacier blocked the Clark Fork River in Idaho during the Ice Age. The glacially dammed river caused water to back up and form a huge lake (Lake Missoula) in western Montana, in places 2,000 feet deep!
(Answersingenesis.org/geology/arent-millions-of-years-required)

This article stated that during an, 'Ice Age', a glacier blocked the Clark Fork River in Idaho.

Creating a huge lake named Missoula in western Montana.

Is it safe to assume that this Ice Age took place during the flood?

To be honest, I don't want to enter into discussion with you. Because all you've done is try to belittle other people who don't believe as you do. It's tiresome and so unpleasant.

I love science and I love talking about it and all the breath-taking discoveries. But the enjoyment of it gets ruined when having to go into battle over it.

So I'm done. I would rather hope that someone else comes along and discuss the topics of science just for the joy of it.


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Yes, because they do not respect what God has revealed in Creation (RM 1:20). The significance of Eden is not its location but rather its being the beginning of human God-consciousness and thus moral accountability and the blissful end in heaven for those who pass God's test and are permitted to eat of the tree of eternal life.

I can discuss some of it with you if you'd like, here or in private.
The thing is, i haven't understood your points clearly but i did understand his.

Sometimes people argue for pages, not just here but other forums and i think a lot of times they're in agreement but they keep arguing for the sake of arguing.

I am also at peace with Mysteries and sometimes saying "i don't know" is a more honest position than claiming to have all the answers.

I just wanted to be able to talk about the amazing things that happened to the earth during the Flood and the after effects as the water evaporated or drained back in to the springs of the deep. And so many other things in the sciences that show God's hand and intelligent design. Like when I was tracking and watching the eclipse this past March on my own and reported on it at the thread for it. But it's tiresome having to talk to people who don't see Him in science and mocking all of that.

It's also the fact that most people just aren't all that interested in science. As long as it all works fine, they're not going to pay attention to any of it. I've been trying to get other people to watch that documentary, "The Ark and the Darkness" so that I can talk about it with them, but they look at how long the documentary runs for and they're like, "No, I don't think so!"

So I just don't care anymore. I'd rather just continue to read my science magazines and read articles on the scientific websites to myself. Because at least I can feel joy at what God has done or is doing without anyone else spoiling it for me.


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See, this part i understand completely and i agree with you.
So you're basically looking to discuss some of the fine details of the flood and that documentary. Okay, i'll try to start it and watch it.
We may disagree on the fine details of the flood but that shouldn't prevent us from enjoying God's Creation and talking about the details which elude us to this day.

Also i don't think the other person you were discussing with, was mocking God but maybe you were put off by his tone?
I usually try to focus on the essence than the tone. For example when the Germans say "i love you" it sounds angry to me.

I am not sure whether you have discerned my affirmation of logic and science as ways that God reveals truth as well as in Scripture. And I am not sure whether I would want to rehash the Flood and Ark theories. Are you familiar with Streams of Civilization, by Creation-Life Publishers?

So, I will begin by asking the following philosophical question: Is there some truth which is not debatable; which everyone believes at least implicitly and uses as a common point of departure in discussing ultimate reality? I think there is such axiomatic truth, because in order to study reality it appears that one must (logically or implicitly) begin by assuming at least the reality of the student. Thus, absolute skepticism in philosophy is like absolute zero in physics: it serves as a hypothetical point that is not actually achieved or else nothing would happen (even in ice .

An “ism” affirms some valid part of reality. The truth represented by skepticism is that finite human beings cannot know absolutely, infallibly, perfectly or objectively. I find this truth expressed by the apostle Paul in the New Testament (NT) book of 1 Corinthians 13:9&12, “We know in part . . . We see but a poor reflection” (as in a fogged mirror).

The element of uncertainty does not prevent would-be skeptics from talking as if knowledge with some degree of confidence were possible the moment they attempt to communicate their doubts. An agnostic has “certain” assumptions at least implicitly: that truth is believable, rational and meaningful, even though unprovable or subjective.

What are some of those amazing things that happen. Imo since the dove brought back a fresh olive leaf it appears not much did.

How about the appearance of no sickness before the flood-longevity of life.

This was a good documentary and I enjoyed it.
In the beginning and the end of the documentary they talk about the second judgment and they say we need to be “ready”.

For me this mindset is something which I can’t understand.
Ready for what exactly? That finally we will be free from this fallen world?
The other thing is that for me the Kingdom of God is here and now in my heart, so if the second Judgment comes today at 5PM or in 1.3 billions from now, I’m already in a spiritual connection with God. Short of me seeing Him or touching Him, I’m already there mentally and spiritually.
So, that’s why for me it’s hard to understand this mindset which carries a message of doom and gloom and no other instructions.
Because I don’t see doom and gloom in the second judgment, I see Relief.

The beginning of the documentary also speaks of free-will, another important concept to me which I agree with.

I don’t agree with the literal 6 day creation timeline as I’ve mentioned before but I have no doubt that God has created us. The details here for me at least, are a bit of a mystery. Science or the Bible can’t give me these fine details. But in no way this gives me any problems with my Faith.

They also talk about original sin which I agree with, the condition we find ourselves in, separated from God, in a sinful state.

They also talked about Entropy which I am familiar with and I’m glad they made that connection after original sin. I can say a lot about this alone and I love all the possibilities including where Eden was and how our bodies were and what the Tree was made of.

They also had some footage there where men were hunting dinosaurs, which I filed under creative license in movies or documentaries, kinda like The Chosen has a bit of a creative license sometimes.

The other thing that seemed a bit unbelievable is when the documentary tries to make Noah a specialist of biology which I also filed under creative license because they used modern language such as dna or evolution.

They also pointed some holes in the Evolution theory there which I’m familiar with and I agree with.
Evolution theory like the other member who posted here said, it’s a theory, a best-guess based on observation, which with the discovery of new evidence will self-correct itself. So it's not set in stone.

They do say that we must have Faith for some of these details, something which I 100% agree with.

Then they talk about the size of the flood. What is local or was it global?
Well, I tend to go with local, simply because the writings that come to us, come from the area which was considered “the world” back then. Middle East and Mediterranean region was “the world”.
The documentary speaks of this too towards to the end and calls Mesopotamia the cradle of civilization.

I also filed the separation of continents from the flood under the unbelievable category since we know and measure the depths of the Earth and plate tectonics. This is a stable theory, as stable as E=MC2 because we have satellites in space which measure when continents move even a centimeter.
But as the other member you were discussing with earlier said, science is open to change and self-correction when new evidence is discovered.

Another thing that was interesting to me is that some of these so-called “skeptics” were using high-computing technology and simulations to disprove other “skeptics”.

Towards the end they also speak of the Protestant’s version of Salvation, which I’ve heard many times before so all good there.
One of the persons or pastor or whoever he was in documentary, kept repeating the notion that we are all sinners whom i agreed with. This is a key concept which I learned since I was young and did Bible studies and it’s a concept which is essential to our fallen world here in separation from God.
A key prayer I say commonly is “Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner”.
Paul also said that he was the chief among sinners.
So for me at least, this is something that’s very clear.

Finally an important consideration here which we’ve talked about in my church many times, is how exactly do you call God after this event?

We call Him a Merciful God. This is why I am at peace on His hands. I am at His mercy. I have no fear. He is the Almighty Creator so He can literally do anything, which means that I have nothing to fear when I am completely helpless towards my Creator. So I go to Him even if He is displeased with me. He is all I have in this existence.

The other important aspect of this, for me at least, is that this event should not be an event which sort of “proves” anything about God.
God’s glory is all around us in this Creation so for me there are no doubts because I find His signature everywhere and I don’t need one event such as the Flood to “prove” His existence or glory.

And science is not this “thing” that sits alone out there which opposes God. It simply glorifies God because science is people like us, asking “how” questions and we are left with more questions since our minds are incapable of understanding all the details of God’s Creation.

So, what would you like to talk about?