The hatred of Jews

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ZNP

ZNP

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Cameron143 said:
Okay. Even if all you have said is true, the old covenant has God meeting the Israelites in the temple. That is the covenantal place for His presence. So how does He meet with His people?
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Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

The covenant made by God to both David and Abraham applies to the nation of Israel. Whereas the covenant made by the Son of David and the Son of Abraham is the covenant made with Christians.

So from the first verse we see how both the Old and New Testaments are intertwined in Matthew. This focus is essentially non existent in Mark and Luke. Mark begins with John the Baptist calling people to repent and Luke begins with the birth of Jesus going back to Adam. However, the way in which the two covenants are intertwined is explained in Romans which many consider the "Gospel according to Paul".

Now consider

Matthew 23:39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

This is not in Mark.

Now consider the context:

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

This is the conclusion to the woes that Jesus pronounces on the scribes and Pharisees. It is clearly a reference to Israel as a nation and their salvation when Jesus steps down on to Jerusalem and splits the mountain in two.

In Luke the difference is subtle, almost imperceptible.

Luke 13:34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! 35 See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

In Luke they have not seen Him yet because Luke is to those who are raptured prior to the hour of trial, in Matthew they have seen Him, but "no more". Therefore the focus in Matthew is after the two witnesses are killed and the whole world sees them taken up. That marks the official end of the salvation of Christians. From that point you will not see Jesus and the resurrection any more until the Jews say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord. Mark is to those who are left behind in the tribulation so neither of these would apply, the rapture did take place where many Jews if not all would have seen, and the two witnesses have not yet been raptured.

Consider one other point, why would anyone live stream dead bodies lying in the street for three days? I understand the blood lust in wanting to see them killed. I understand them giving gifts to one another when they are killed. But what could be more boring than a live stream of dead bodies lying in the street for 72 hours? I believe the reason is the first rapture. Antichrist pushes a lie that they were not raptured and the whole world by this point demands to see for themselves. In other words it is proof that they did see the rapture the first time.
 
ZNP

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If you are not familiar with the three synoptic gospels being written to the three groups: those raptured before the hour of trial, those left behind to go through the hour of trial and the Jews as a nation consider these verses:

compare this word by Jesus in all three synoptic gospels

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

These two are identical.

Luke 21:8b for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Only Luke says this. No one will be trying to deceive people that "the time draweth near" after the rapture. This shows you that Luke is to those who are raptured prior to the "hour of trial".

Also, only Luke has this:

Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Only Luke has this. I believe this is a reference to the destruction of Mystery, Babylon the Great. I believe this event will be what kicks off the "hour of trial" which is to come upon the whole earth. I think this is a direct reference to the rapture before the hour of trial, as they go up, the fire comes down.

compare this with the word where Jesus told the disciples that Elijah had come first, referring to John the Baptist. That is only in Matthew and Mark and is not in Luke. Again, this makes sense since Luke is written to those who are taken prior to the hour of trial, which includes the Antichrist, the false prophet and the two witnesses.

And only in Luke does Jesus say this

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The time of thy visitation refers to the rapture before the hour of trial. Those in Matthew and Mark didn't know, which is why they go through that trial.
 
ZNP

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Comparing the synoptic gospels

Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. 25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep. 26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

This verse is only in Luke and it only makes sense prior to the 7 year tribulation. There is no point in saying this to those left behind after the rapture just as there would be no point telling this to Jews in Auschwitz.

Strange Fire

Comparing the synoptic gospels

Matthew 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. 52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

This verse is only in Matthew and that is significant to its meaning. Don't think this applies to someone who is a philosopher among the nations or someone who was a pagan or knows the deep things of Satan. The apostle Paul is the best example of what this verse means. I have seen people try to apply their secular knowledge to the spirit, like an accountant trying to help with the gospel, or comedians trying to improve the preaching of sermons, or satanists trying to help people with prayer. All of that stuff is "strange fire" and is condemned.

pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

This is only in Luke, further proof that this gospel is to those taken prior to the rapture. If you are left behind after the rapture it is pointless to pray that you would be worthy of escape. You missed it. Also, the day did come upon you unawares.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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ZNP said:
Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

The covenant made by God to both David and Abraham applies to the nation of Israel. Whereas the covenant made by the Son of David and the Son of Abraham is the covenant made with Christians.

So from the first verse we see how both the Old and New Testaments are intertwined in Matthew. This focus is essentially non existent in Mark and Luke. Mark begins with John the Baptist calling people to repent and Luke begins with the birth of Jesus going back to Adam. However, the way in which the two covenants are intertwined is explained in Romans which many consider the "Gospel according to Paul".

Now consider

Matthew 23:39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

This is not in Mark.

Now consider the context:

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

This is the conclusion to the woes that Jesus pronounces on the scribes and Pharisees. It is clearly a reference to Israel as a nation and their salvation when Jesus steps down on to Jerusalem and splits the mountain in two.

In Luke the difference is subtle, almost imperceptible.

Luke 13:34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! 35 See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

In Luke they have not seen Him yet because Luke is to those who are raptured prior to the hour of trial, in Matthew they have seen Him, but "no more". Therefore the focus in Matthew is after the two witnesses are killed and the whole world sees them taken up. That marks the official end of the salvation of Christians. From that point you will not see Jesus and the resurrection any more until the Jews say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord. Mark is to those who are left behind in the tribulation so neither of these would apply, the rapture did take place where many Jews if not all would have seen, and the two witnesses have not yet been raptured.

Consider one other point, why would anyone live stream dead bodies lying in the street for three days? I understand the blood lust in wanting to see them killed. I understand them giving gifts to one another when they are killed. But what could be more boring than a live stream of dead bodies lying in the street for 72 hours? I believe the reason is the first rapture. Antichrist pushes a lie that they were not raptured and the whole world by this point demands to see for themselves. In other words it is proof that they did see the rapture the first time.
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The Abrahamic and Davidic covenants are parts of the covenant of grace, and not law. While present alongside the old covenant, their reality is only present for the Israel of God, and not all of Israel. For those OT saints who were saved, they experienced the grace and blessings these promises held. They were people of faith. This was not true of most of Israel most of the time. This is why God set His presence first in the tabernacle, and later in the temple that He might dwell with them. The new covenant requires no such physical building as God dwells in His people now.
All that to say that if Israel remains under the old covenant, God is bound by the covenant to dwell with His people and make His presence known from a physical temple. No such temple exists.
 
ZNP

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Isaiah 66:21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the Lord. 22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure.
 
Jimbone

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ZNP said:
The New Testament is the fulfillment of the law. If you try to insinuate that every prophesy and reference to Israel is fulfilled in the church it becomes absurd game of this means that a thousand times over.

The Jews returning to Israel and becoming a nation in one day, something unheard of other than in the prophecies of the Bible gets ascribed to the Rothschild's instead of God. The holocaust where a third of the Jews in the world were killed is not a burnt offering for an atonement for a third of the godhead being killed on the cross, it is simply one of many horrible events in human history that are meaningless.

I don't care what you believe, why do you have a problem with me believing that what the Bible says is true both literally and figuratively? Physically and spiritually.
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No, everything that you just said as fact is nothing more than opinion. Right wrong or confused that's the bottom line. I think the idea of another "Gods" temple is an impossible idea that slaps Jesus across the face and is such a HUGE step backwards that I feel one would have to wonder if they are following a confused God or a trickster of a God for jumping back and forth in this way. I KNOW so many believe this, they have to in order to believe these events are future to us, but they aren't. They happen exactly when Jesus said they would in Mat. 24. No other option I've ever heard fit's ALL of scripture as well as this. I don't have to add charts, timelines, guru commentary, to His word, not to mention the need to slice it up and arrange it in a way to fit, like the other options do. I didn't say anything that scripture doesn't plainly say. Are you saying there is another way to God other than Jesus for ALL men? Is that what you're saying?

Also you never answered exactly what were they "chosen" for? You just seem mad I don't share your view and really aren't making a good case why I should believe your view. You don't have to be offended by what I say, if you have the truth then please share it.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Jimbone said:
No, everything that you just said as fact is nothing more than opinion. Right wrong or confused that's the bottom line. I think the idea of another "Gods" temple is an impossible idea that slaps Jesus across the face and is such a HUGE step backwards that I feel one would have to wonder if they are following a confused God or a trickster of a God for jumping back and forth in this way. I KNOW so many believe this, they have to in order to believe these events are future to us, but they aren't. They happen exactly when Jesus said they would in Mat. 24. No other option I've ever heard fit's ALL of scripture as well as this. I don't have to add charts, timelines, guru commentary, to His word, not to mention the need to slice it up and arrange it in a way to fit, like the other options do. I didn't say anything that scripture doesn't plainly say. Are you saying there is another way to God other than Jesus for ALL men? Is that what you're saying?

Also you never answered exactly what were they "chosen" for? You just seem mad I don't share your view and really aren't making a good case why I should believe your view. You don't have to be offended by what I say, if you have the truth then please share it.
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No, everything that you just said as fact is nothing more than opinion. Right wrong or confused that's the bottom line.
 
Yahshua

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Cameron143 said:
What I disagreed with is God's goal. God's ultimate goal is always His glory.
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This response is disingenuous. A believer doesn't need to read the details The Almighty has provided in pages and pages of scripture to understand that His glory is the point of all of this. A believer knows that. The Almighty gave us these details because He wanted us to know what He specifically intends to do (as He has always done for His servants in the past); what His plan is and the "results" (i.e., Goals) of His plan. Seems like you're just disagreeing to disagree.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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ZNP said:
You cannot have an inferential teaching, that is bogus. You can use types and shadows to shade in teachings based on the black and white word. For example, when God says He makes an everlasting covenant, that is a black and white word you can hang your hat on. Making a doctrine on inferential teachings based on types and figures is completely bogus, you can make it to say anything you want.
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Exactly, God made an everlasting covenant with himself. He is the only one responsible for keeping it.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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mailmandan said:
Pro-Hezbollah Rally In Dearborn Features Anti-American and Anti-Israel Rhetoric

Pro-Hezbollah Rally In Dearborn Features Anti-American and Anti-Israel Rhetoric | The Gateway Pundit | by Seth Segal

This type of garbage should NEVER be tolerated in America!
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Oh it is, and it's being pushed I believe. Suddenly the "Squad" is deadly silent. I believe they are working to get Harris in. Then they will have a different position on Israel, the two state solution they want.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Yahshua said:
Moses' pronouncement/prophecy doesn't end at the end of Chapter 28 (because there originally weren't chapter & verse breaks). If we keep reading past Chapter 28 and continue with Moses' words he also says:

Deut 29:14-15
I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God but also with those who are not here today.

So that means future generations, which then begs the question "How many generations"? Was it a specific number or was the covenant throughout all generations? Next Moses says...


Deut 30:1-3
When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today [same day he began to speak those previous chapters], 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.


Moses concluded the covenant in chapter 30. The name "Deuteronomy" is a compound word ("deutero" = "two/second" and "nomy" = "Law". Recall that Moses broke the first set of tablets when Israel broke the covenant not 40 days after covenanting with Almighty at the mountain). So this covenant included:

- future generations not yet alive are participants in the covenant
- the terms/rules the covenant applied to
- the blessings for obedience
- the curses for disobedience
- the assurance that they would definitely disobey the rules and be cursed/punished/scattered
- the promise to restore & regather them AFTER they return to obedience while IN the land of their punishment/scattering


So, the promise to regather them from scattering (if they repent and obey) is part of the covenant...and if it wasn't until after they rejected Messiah in the first century that the curses/punishments were activated (including their scattering), then the covenant was/is still active and that the promise is to those generations born even later. The problem is that they can never fulfill the last portion without believing in the Messiah because only He (and His Spirit) has the heart to obey The Almighty (i.e., the law placed in their hearts and minds).

And so the New Covenant is stacked atop the Old where sacrificing for sin is no longer necessary and where belief in the Messiah will give the people the heart to obey thereby justifying The Father to restore and regather them back to His land as promised for obedience.

This is why some of us argue that the promise for them to be returned to the land is still alive today but that there is no return without belief in the Messiah. They must accept the Messiah and be part of the New Covenant to fulfill the Old Covenant to return them home.

God's words can't return to Him void.
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Right, Romans 11 says they are blinded for a time, until all the Gentiles come in. Then God will lift their spiritual blindness and they will "see" their Messiah, they will recognize him.
 
Yahshua

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TabinRivCA said:
I understand what your saying and I get why you think this. I wouldn't condemn all Israel for it, it's going on all over, The majority of Jews are either secular, Orthodox or Messianic and are merely trying to survive. I don't need any further info on this from Mo, and thanks for the explanation, I get it✝🔯
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If I may, let me add that there are two victims in this plot initiated by the Powers That Be:

a) The people of the book who are still scattered whose identity was stolen
b) People deceived into believing they were someone they are not, who are otherwise decent, caring people.

The Powers That Be don't care about either group and will not hesitate to sacrifice anyone to achieve their goals. It's why we're still not seeing any effort to free the remaining hostages. They don't care about them. They're better served as martyrs.

We're seeing nations wake up and say "ok, 40+ thousand dead? now hundreds more civilians in other areas are killed? ...there's no justification for this much death and destruction." But the Powers That Be don't want a permanent ceasefire. They want the land.
 
Cameron143

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Yahshua said:
This response is disingenuous. A believer doesn't need to read the details The Almighty has provided in pages and pages of scripture to understand that His glory is the point of all of this. A believer knows that. The Almighty gave us these details because He wanted us to know what He specifically intends to do (as He has always done for His servants in the past); what His plan is and the "results" (i.e., Goals) of His plan. Seems like you're just disagreeing to disagree.
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You would be wrong in your conclusion. That isn't my aim. And you jumped into an already ongoing discussion, placed a bit of a twist on it, and in making your point, left off a verse from a passage that had altogether to with my initial argument.

I can appreciate that setting such as this can lend itself to confusion and misunderstanding, so I apologize for characterizing your actions as disingenuous.

Grace and peace.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Publican said:
The Jews in Israel are not Jews, if by Jew you mean descended from the Patriarchs. The Palestinians that are being wholesale slaughtered by your precious Jews, are more closely related to the Patriarchs than any fake Ashkenazi name stealer.
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Hitler seemed to think they were Jew enough to try and wipe them out as a people. Too bad he wasn't as smart as you, 6 million people would be alive today.

Publican said:
Put down your Satanic Scofield Bible and do some actual research.
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Satanic Bible?! I thought there was only one of those. lol Yeah, I've done research, for many years. And everlasting and unconditional still mean the same thing. The words have not changed.



Of course Christ died for our sins, but the Jews handed him over to the Romans and said let his blood be on our hands. Just like the fake Jews have been doing for centuries. They start wars and have your children fight them.
[/QUOTE]

The Jews are guilty, or the fake Jews. Make up your mind. God loves the Jews and He will keep the promises He made to His chosen people. Romans 11 says so.

Publican said:
Israel is the largest terrorist state in the world and the US is their henchman.
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:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:

Publican said:
But spare me with this Jew hatred horse crap.
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Oh your spirit is so loving and Christlike! Just gets you right there... I guess you'd be like the young girl in Shindler's List screaming "Goodbye Jews!!!" as they were marched out of ghettos and onto trains. Hard not to call someone on their hate when it's so bleedin obvious.
 
ZNP

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
Hitler seemed to think they were Jew enough to try and wipe them out as a people. Too bad he wasn't as smart as you, 6 million people would be alive today.
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How could Hitler have been as smart as Publican? They didn't have AI back then.
 
HeIsHere

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Yahshua said:
This response is disingenuous. A believer doesn't need to read the details The Almighty has provided in pages and pages of scripture to understand that His glory is the point of all of this. A believer knows that. The Almighty gave us these details because He wanted us to know what He specifically intends to do (as He has always done for His servants in the past); what His plan is and the "results" (i.e., Goals) of His plan. Seems like you're just disagreeing to disagree.
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"...specifically intended to do" ;)

A certain school of thought harps on God doing everything for His own Glory, to the point where it borders on narcissistic god.

I like this person's point of view.....

Because God so loved the world, He gave. (Full Stop)

Not the other way around.
God did not give His only begotten Son and thereby make Himself love the world. It was because of His character, in this case, His lovingkindness, that the action of Him sending His Son came from. The action resulted because of the Character.
(Grace Provoked)
 
HeIsHere

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Yahshua said:
If I may, let me add that there are two victims in this plot initiated by the Powers That Be:

a) The people of the book who are still scattered whose identity was stolen
b) People deceived into believing they were someone they are not, who are otherwise decent, caring people.

The Powers That Be don't care about either group and will not hesitate to sacrifice anyone to achieve their goals. It's why we're still not seeing any effort to free the remaining hostages. They don't care about them. They're better served as martyrs.

We're seeing nations wake up and say "ok, 40+ thousand dead? now hundreds more civilians in other areas are killed? ...there's no justification for this much death and destruction." But the Powers That Be don't want a permanent ceasefire. They want the land.
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I am just really wondering how we tie the DNA of Abraham to a specific group in this day and age.
What percentage qualifies... 0.02%, 0.03%, 0.05% :unsure:

Amazing anyone thinks there is some pure blood line after how many years?
 
Cameron143

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HeIsHere said:
"...specifically intended to do" ;)

A certain school of thought harps on God doing everything for His own Glory, to the point where it borders on narcissistic god.

I like this person's point of view.....

Because God so loved the world, He gave. (Full Stop)

Not the other way around.
God did not give His only begotten Son and thereby make Himself love the world. It was because of His character, in this case, His lovingkindness, that the action of Him sending His Son came from. The action resulted because of the Character.
(Grace Provoked)
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Read Isaiah 61:1-3. Tell me why Jesus came please.
 
HeIsHere

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I suppose one also has to wonder how much percentage of blindness this group receives?

Is it connected to the genes/biology, so then if a person is 0.03% related to Jacob then they receive 0.03% associated spiritual blindness. :unsure:

And then we have an entire group of people spiritually blinded unable to, believe in/trust in, the Messiah because of biology and God has this in place for millennia?

Wow, so where did the free will argument go, another :unsure:
 
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