The rapture? The comimg of Christ.

Ballaurena · Oct 14, 2024

Time is physical. Spiritual things aren't subject to time the way physical things are, whether they are of God or not. Humans are both physical and spiritual, while angels - holy or fallen, are only spiritual.

Therefore there are at least some things that Satan's side can see ahead. But I wouldn't trust Satan's interpretation of the future any more than I would his interpretation of the Bible that Jesus rejected in the wilderness as recorded in Matthew 4.

And humans aren't as aware of their spiritual side as their physical, but it is still very much there. Therefore there is no reason to automatically believe that foretelling lyrics in an American song would be of Satan. Being that we are both physical and spiritual creations, humans can inadvertently read prophetic things in the spirit, especially if they were created to be in some way prophetic per 1 Corinthians 12 (more common than you think), and they can do this whether they know it or not.

And this doesn't require them to be a Satanist. In fact, this tendency is especially likely if they have Holy Spirit. For example, it was with ill-intent, but Caiaphas inadvertently prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish Nation, because Caiaphas was high priest that year. (John 11 starting in verse 45).

Omegatime · Oct 14, 2024

TMS said:

Because there is no gap in the 70 week prophecy and the harvest is the end of the world. The antichrist and false prophet are present before the end of the world.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Mat 24:24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Deception isn't very effective if everyone knows how they are being deceived.

When Jesus comes it will all be over.

No second chance. Probation has closed.

The wicked will not live again until the second resurrection.

We will go through the Tribulation, trusting in God's protection.

Like Noah that went through the flood safe in the ark.

What takes more faith? Going through the trials or escaping the trials.

Jesus said watch and be ready.
Mat 24:42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1Pe 1:4-7
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The Tribulation will test our faith. But if your taken before this you don't need much faith.

And how do you explain Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

looking for the glorious appearing of Jesus.

no secret event.

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What scripture says the harvest is the end of the world?

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 14, 2024

Saul-to-Paul said:

[note: I agree with Scribe's general point... though I see this as a "Second Coming to the earth [Rev19]" time-slot (not "rapture" time-slot)... I AGREE with his point about how "the tares" will be gathered (by the angels / reapers) in bundles "TO be burned [/TO burn them]"... not that they are burned before "the wheat" is gathered--again, not a "rapture" passage...]

... but I wanted to comment briefly on your post, here, where you say, "and then cast into the lake of fire, BEFORE GOD DESTROYS THE EARTH."

That is contrary to the SEQUENCE actually shown at the "GWTj" time-slot (I assume you are referring to this, because of your mentioning "and then cast into the lake of fire" [Rev20:15]).

But what verse 11 had ALREADY SHOWN (when introducing the "GWTj" context / setting), is that, as it says in v.11,

Rev 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [the verses next tell what happens at that setting (the GWTj)]

IOW, the SEQUENCE is NOT "...and then cast into the lake of fire, BEFORE God destroys the earth." No. Not what the text itself tells us.

[note to the readers: BOTH "Matt13" (wheat harvest, etc) and "Matt24:4-chpt 25 end" (esp. the Sheep and goat separation judgment) are speaking of "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... which is FOLLOWED BY (as He'd ALREADY mentioned in 12:32) "the age [SINGULAR] to come" i.e. the earthly MK age; It is NOT referencing the end of all time at the GWTj point, NO!]

rrcn · Oct 14, 2024

BOY said:

So, what is the latest? My Bible hasn’t changed.

rrcn · Oct 14, 2024

Omegatime said:

[Mat 13:37-43 KJV] 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Publican · Oct 14, 2024

TMS said:

The Apostles didn't talk about a secret rapture pretribulation rapture..

It started around the time when......

John Nelson Darby first solidified and popularized the pre-tribulation rapture in 1827. Despite vague notions of this view existing in a few Puritan theologians prior to Darby, he was the first person to place it into a larger theological framework .[72][73][74][75] This view was accepted among many other Plymouth Brethren movements in England.[76][page needed] Darby and other prominent Brethren were part of the Brethren movement which impacted American Christianity, especially with movements and teachings associated with Christian eschatology and fundamentalism, primarily through their writings. Influences included the Bible Conference Movement, starting in 1878 with the Niagara Bible Conference. These conferences, which were initially inclusive of historicist and futurist premillennialism, led to an increasing acceptance of futurist premillennial views and the pre-tribulation rapture especially among Presbyterian, Baptist, and Congregational members.[76]: 11

This movement which impacted American Christianity, needs to be tested by the word of God.

The theories of men are not what we should build our faith on

2Ti 3:16-17All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Amen bro, just be careful you don't get banned. The dispensational farce is strong with this crowd. And shhh, you can't mention the Jews either, they are very touchy about Israel around here.

CS1 · Oct 14, 2024

TMS said:

A large number of Christians have been exposed to this "dispensationalist" or "futurist" interpretation of prophecy called the secret rapture, and have been hopelessly confused.

According to this view, the coming of Jesus will be in two separate events. First, He will come secretly to take the church to heaven, and then, seven years later, He will come in an open demonstration of power and glory. In between those two events, the Antichrist is supposed to come into power and the great tribulation period takes place.

But the truth is that the Bible nowhere speaks of these two separate comings of Jesus. There is no second stage of His second coming that occurs seven years after the socalled "rapture." By the way, that word "rapture" is also an invention of theologians. It can't be found in the Bible in even a single instance. It is a word coined for the second advent of Jesus.

Now here is what we find in the Scriptures: Christ's coming, the resurrection, and catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air, all take place at the same time, at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20). Now why would Jesus promise to be with the church until the end of the world if He intended to come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise would have no meaning.

LOL False NARRATIVE. I love the cute terms used, like " Secret Rapture." That was said by one who disagrees with the Pretrib. No one who holds to a pretrib Rapture ever said it was a Secret.

Jesus said YOu will not know the day or the Hour; please feel free to mock Him if you like.

Omegatime · Oct 14, 2024

rrcn said:

------------------------------------------------
IMO end of the age is a better term.

About the angels being called Reapers!

In Rev 14 starting at verse 14 the angels are also called Reapers, in this story also but the earth being reaped of righteous happens first

Saul-to-Paul · Oct 14, 2024

TheDivineWatermark said:

The unsaved are gathered, judged, cast into the lake of fire. This happens before God destroys the earth to make a new heaven and earth.

Joel 3:12-14 KJV
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

Revelation 20:15 KJV
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:1 KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Saul-to-Paul · Oct 14, 2024

Scribe said:

Not following your thought process.

Saul-to-Paul · Oct 14, 2024

Scribe said:

1. Satan is the Antichrist aka the man of sin
2. Yes God uses Satan to bring judgment. But ultimately it is Satan attacking the saints.

Inquisitor · Oct 14, 2024

CS1 said:

Contrary to what you stated please read below.

Luke 21:25-28
There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting from fear and the expectation of the things that are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Because we don't know when these signs will occur we don't know the arrival time.

We have been given the signs that precede the arrival of Jesus.

Inquisitor · Oct 14, 2024

TMS said:

Paul was of the opinion that Jesus would return on one specific day. And on that day both
Christians and unbelievers will see the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
And to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed
from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do
not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These people will
pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory
of His power, when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled
at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.

CS1 · Oct 14, 2024

Inquisitor said:

That is not the full context.

Jesus very clearly said Matthew 24:

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

The day or the Hour we do not know, BUT we can see the season.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

"To be completely unaware of these things is to not be watchful and prepared. Today, I believe this applies very much to 'Generation.' Once America is hit repeatedly, and as what appears to be the war spoken of in Ezekiel draws near, the coming of the Lord is imminent."

GRACE_ambassador · Oct 14, 2024

1) The rapture? Yes! one event for The Body Of Christ!! Absolutely!!!

2) The Second Coming? Again, yes! Another different event for Israel!! Absolutely!!!:

3) His Rightly Divided study! - Of:

The Great Comforting God and Saviour, The LORD Jesus Christ! Praise Him For EverMore!!!!

Amen.

TMS · Oct 15, 2024

Omegatime said:

The explanation that Jesus gives

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

DavyP · Oct 15, 2024

GaryA said:

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Answer to your question is easy, because has the future resurrection happened yet today? No!

Even as Apostle Paul rebuked Hymenaeus and Philetus for saying that the resurrection is past already (2 Timothy 2:18).

And if you'll notice about the "dead" in that time, per Rev.20:12 they are still... called "the dead" even when they appear before God's Great White Throne Judgment when the books are opened.

After Christ's future coming, it's no longer about flesh death, for that time will be over. The only type of death that will remain then is the "second death", and that is the casting of one's spirit with soul into the "lake of fire" by the GWT Judgment.

DavyP · Oct 15, 2024

Saul-to-Paul said:

Then you failed to read and understand that word "first" in the below Scripture...

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

And that "first" ordinal number is there in the Greek manuscripts, with Greek protos (NT:4413).

If while watching a car race, and someone says, "here comes the first... one", that automatically implies at least one more like it after it. So common sense makes understanding this easy.

Aaron56 · Oct 15, 2024

In fairness, that's not what He said.

He said "No one knows..." Present tense. Like "No one currently knows".

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."

Notice He said not man > the angels > the Son... only the Father.

Then, after all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him, He revealed this to John:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servant things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John..."

So, here the order is reversed: given by God to the Son, given by the Son to an angel, given by the angel to John (a man).

The Son knows now. But man does not know. We WILL know the day, just as those in the light are not overtaken by the thief, when the Son reveals it to all who believe.

CS1 · Oct 15, 2024

2 Peter 3:3-4 The Message (MSG)
First off, you need to know that in the last days, mockers are going to have a heyday.
Reducing everything to the level of their petty feelings, they’ll mock, “So what’s happened to the promise of his Coming?
Our ancestors are dead and buried, and everything’s going on just as it has from the first day of creation. Nothing’s changed.”

8-9 Don’t overlook the obvious here, friends.

With God, one day is as good as a thousand years, a thousand years as a day.

God isn’t late with his promise as some measure lateness. He is restraining himself on account of you, holding back the End because he doesn’t want anyone lost.

He’s giving everyone space and time to change.

10 But when the Day of God’s Judgment does come, it will be unannounced, like a thief.

The sky will collapse with a thunderous bang, everything disintegrating in a raging inferno, earth and all its works exposed to the scrutiny of Judgment.
11-13 Since everything here today might well be gone tomorrow, do you see how essential it is to live a holy life? Daily expect the Day of God, eager for its arrival.

The rapture? The comimg of Christ.

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