The hatred of Jews

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,452
6,672
113
You are doing the very thing you speak against ... yes our is plural, but could be any number greater than one... even father, son and Holy Spirit does not mean there are only 3.. you have not provided a verse that in black & white explicitly states Trinity
God is clearly one, and here he is clearly plural. Also, the reference to God's image is clearly a reference to Jesus Christ who is the image of the invisible God as we are told in Colossians.

So God created man in his own image, H6754 in the image H6754 of God created he him; male and female created he them.

It is also explicitly stated that the image of God is both male and female. Therefore from this verse you can conclude that yes, God is one, but God is also plural, and at least 3 in one

Also you continue to ignore the second reference I gave you about when Jesus was baptized, in that reference you can explicitly see the Father, the Son and the Spirit.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,936
29,304
113
God is clearly one, and here he is clearly plural. Also, the reference to God's image is clearly a reference to Jesus Christ who is the image of the invisible God as we are told in Colossians.

So God created man in his own image, H6754 in the image H6754 of God created he him; male and female created he them.

It is also explicitly stated that the image of God is both male and female. Therefore from this verse you can conclude that yes, God is one, but God is also plural, and at least 3 in one

Also you continue to ignore the second reference I gave you about when Jesus was baptized, in that reference you can explicitly see the Father, the Son and the Spirit.
You are mistaken please see post 1776 ... also I find it interesting that you speak against the very thing you do and cannot even see that you do it. Trinity is not mentioned in black & white ... As you insist other things must be for them to be valid points.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,452
6,672
113
You are mistaken please see post 776 ... also I find it interesting that you speak against the very thing you do and cannot even see that you do it. Trinity is not mentioned in black & white ... As you insist other things must be for them to be valid points.
I am speaking against using types and shadows as the foundation of a doctrine. That is Bible teaching 101.

I told you I was not interested in regurgitating stuff that anyone can find already posted on the internet. For example, God a Minute posted a message about these verses today:

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Here we have the Lord God, His Spirit and the Lord our Redeemer. All three, it is quite obvious that the Lord God and His Spirit sent "me" saith the Lord our Redeemer. All three are right there.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,828
2,268
113
Nice to find that not everyone buys into the dispensational mumbo jumbo. The part that blows my mind is the temple. They want to help the fake Jews build an actual temple for the Antichrist. Seriously, and they don't have any problems with this at all, like it must be done.
Total insanity. But here we are.

So, curious. Do you think we might be in the short season?
It is mumbo jumbo indeed.

They do not have a problem with it, in fact they cannot wait.

You can point out every error in interpreting scripture and all the historical data regarding Scofield , Darby, Oxford Publishing and how the entire Christian Zionist movement/dispensationalism was concocted, instead of an objective analysis one gets "God uses evil men to do His will."
sigh!

What is a short season?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,828
2,268
113
I agree, what is the point of the whole replacement theology. They have to go through incredible gymnastics to say that an everlasting covenant is not an everlasting covenant. But why? What is the point? It is simply so they can curse Israel and teach others to do so as well.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
The everlasting Covenant is found in Jesus.
There easy peasy!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,936
29,304
113
You cannot have an inferential teaching, that is bogus. You can use types and shadows to shade in teachings based on the black and white word.
Here's what you said that I have been responding to ... you are reading the word Trinity into the verses you are supplying ... it doesn't matter if it's our -which can be 2 or more- or 3 are mentioned because it doesn't say Trinity specifically... And mentioning 3 does not mean there cannot be more than 3... anyway I'm done with this nobody rarely if ever wants to see that they're blind to their own folly and that includes you.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,452
6,672
113
You are mistaken please see post 1776 ... also I find it interesting that you speak against the very thing you do and cannot even see that you do it. Trinity is not mentioned in black & white ... As you insist other things must be for them to be valid points.
What really disgusts me is when people intentionally try to twist things for their narrative when it is so obvious they don't fit.

And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

I gave this reference in my initial post -- There is a clear reference to the triune God. Not a type, not a shadow, not inferential.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Here is another clear reference to the triune God. Not a type, not a shadow, not inferential.

To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Here is another clear reference. Again, not a type, not a shadow, not inferential.

All I did was google verse references on the triune God. I asked you to do it if you were really asking an honest question. Had you done it you would have seen that the doctrine of the triune God is not built on an inferential interpretation. It is based on the gospels and ministry of Paul and Peter.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,452
6,672
113
What really disgusts me is when people intentionally try to twist things for their narrative when it is so obvious they don't fit.

And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

I gave this reference in my initial post -- There is a clear reference to the triune God. Not a type, not a shadow, not inferential.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Here is another clear reference to the triune God. Not a type, not a shadow, not inferential.

To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Here is another clear reference. Again, not a type, not a shadow, not inferential.

All I did was google verse references on the triune God. I asked you to do it if you were really asking an honest question. Had you done it you would have seen that the doctrine of the triune God is not built on an inferential interpretation. It is based on the gospels and ministry of Paul and Peter.
Here is the reference that will provide many more Bible references

https://www.logos.com/grow/the-trinity-verses-triune-god/
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
If Deuteronomy was the extent of scripture I might agree. And future generations can be added to a covenant and the covenant still end. But if you read the 3 parables between Matthew 21:28 to 22:14, Jesus actually says in 21:43 that the kingdom is taken from them, and gives the timing. After His death. All 3 together depict the kingdom being taken from Israel, the destruction of Israel, and God continuing to build His kingdom with another group.
All of the scripture is in agreement. There can't be a kingdom if its people are scattered to the four corners and into every nation. The kingdom was indeed taken from them and given to another. This is what Romans 11 explains when Paul describes the cutting off of the natural branch for unbelief...but further in that same chapter is the promise that they will be regrafted onto the root when they repent and believe again.

Let's look at each parable in Matthew 21...

The First Parable:
- One son paid lip service to obedience but didn't obey
- One son was initially rebellious but repented and obeyed


The Second Parable:
- The Husbandmen who were placed in charge of the vineyard stole it
- The Husbandmen killed every servant sent including the Owner's son

In both parables, The Messiah is indicting the shepherds placed in charge of the kingdom. This is confirmed later in the chapter.


Matthew 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


So keep this in mind for later because it can help us to synchronize O.T. prophecies. Next, you mentioned The Parable of the Wedding:
- The Son's wedding was happening so invitations went out
- Those invited had better things to do
- So invitations went out to anyone else
- Someone shows up without proper attire and he is bound and cast out


Notice in this parable that BOTH people didn't make it in. Those who were originally invited didn't make it AND people who were later invited weren't allowed in because they thought they could show up without preparing themselves.

This is such a powerful parable because it perfectly reflects the Jews who originally had the invitation (i.e., salvation) but didn't recognize it...and then the Gentiles who accept the invitation (i.e., salvation) but who still won't be allowed in because they'll show up without cleaning themselves up (i.e., sanctification). Neither type of person respected the event. By the way, in Romans 11 Paul addresses both issues equally: the natural branches who were partially blinded and the wild branches boasting as if they can't lose the opportunity they were given.


"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)


So this parable was about both types not making it in (first the Jews and then Gentiles), whereas only a few will. The Messiah's parables are consistent with multiple passages in scripture, but these parables still don't preclude the natural branches from being regrafted when they repent as promised.

----

Let's get back to the Pharisees. These leaders were charged with caring for the vineyard, but clearly, we know they didn't. The Messiah's clash with the Shepherds was prophesied in the O.T. in the book of Ezekiel.


Ezekiel 34:1-2
The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?


Now, the book of Ezekiel was written while the people were in Babylonian captivity. Its prophecy details events that were to happen AFTER the Jews returned to the land during the second temple period (i.e., Herod's Temple). I'm going to just reference passages but please feel free to read its chapters.


1. Ezekiel 33:28-29
- Jews will start sinning again when they return from Babylon.

- This was fulfilled before The Messiah in around 457 - 3 BC. We read of this drama in Nehemiah, Zechariah and those intertestamental books


2. Ezekiel 34
- Corrupt shepherds will mislead the flock, and the sheep will scatter, but The Almighty will search out his sheep and make a covenant with them

- In fulfillment of this chapter we read about The Messiah's clash with the Pharisees in the gospels (corrupt shepherds), He often said He was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and then He established the New Covenant (27 - 34 AD).


3. Ezekiel 35:5-15
- Jerusalem is prophesied to be destroyed (i.e., desolated). We know this happened in 70 AD. And by your reckoning, the kingdom is taken from Israel and given to another group. Correct. But notice we have many more chapters left to fulfill in Ezekiel. Also, notice what else is mentioned in Chapter 35.

- Next, it says the Edomites will claim the land as theirs during Israel's punishment/scattering. But because they acted like enemies to their brother Jacob during his time of punishment (Deut 28), the Edomites will live through constant war and blood; never to experience peace until such time as their own destruction/desolation.


4. Ezekiel 36:1-7
- While Almighty's anger grows for Edom for claiming the land as their property, His anger grows for every nation of the world for how they treat His people (i.e., last approx 2000 years).


5. Ezekiel 36:8-15
- The nations will mock and hate His people (i.e., last approx 2000 years) until The Almighty Himself gathers them back home (Deut 30 promise; Roman 11 promise).


6. Ezekiel 36:24-27
- The Almighty reaffirms His promise to gather His people out of the lands they were scattered to and will confirm the new covenant with them (Jer 31:31-33).

- They'll remain in the lands of their scattering until He does this (Deut 30).


7. Ezekiel 37
- The Son of Man will raise the dead and rejoin both houses of Israel (1 Thess 4:15-17). This is when the nation will be born in a day (Isa 66:8).


8. Ezekiel 38-39
- Then Israel will live safely in their land without any protective walls or barriers (this is the 1000-year reign; Rev 20), until Gog & Magog think to invade them (Rev 20:7).

- But The Almighty will destroy them himself in His fiery fury (Rev 20:9)


9. Ezekiel 40-45
- The millennial temple is described in detail. This is heaven descending to earth when The Almighty will dwell with man forever (Rev 21)

-----

Again, the book of Ezekiel was written while the people were in Babylonian captivity. Its prophecy details all the stuff that was to happen AFTER the Jews returned to the land during the second temple period (i.e., Herod's Temple) through to the appearance of the Messiah, the destruction of Jerusalem, the subsequent punishment/scattering of the people, the trampling of the land by Edom, the resurrection & regathering of the people, and the establishment of Heaven on earth.

All scripture is in harmony.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
760
297
63
Where were the replacement folks when the concentration camps were full? When the lines were long for the gas chambers? Where was "true Israel" then?

Why aren't they flocking to Iran and telling them," Leave the Jews alone! We are true Israel!"

They will take the blessings, but the curses are for the Jew alone. Which in and of itself proves the distinction of Israel and the Church.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,030
6,536
113
62
All of the scripture is in agreement. There can't be a kingdom if its people are scattered to the four corners and into every nation. The kingdom was indeed taken from them and given to another. This is what Romans 11 explains when Paul describes the cutting off of the natural branch for unbelief...but further in that same chapter is the promise that they will be regrafted onto the root when they repent and believe again.

Let's look at each parable in Matthew 21...

The First Parable:
- One son paid lip service to obedience but didn't obey
- One son was initially rebellious but repented and obeyed


The Second Parable:
- The Husbandmen who were placed in charge of the vineyard stole it
- The Husbandmen killed every servant sent including the Owner's son

In both parables, The Messiah is indicting the shepherds placed in charge of the kingdom. This is confirmed later in the chapter.


Matthew 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


So keep this in mind for later because it can help us to synchronize O.T. prophecies. Next, you mentioned The Parable of the Wedding:
- The Son's wedding was happening so invitations went out
- Those invited had better things to do
- So invitations went out to anyone else
- Someone shows up without proper attire and he is bound and cast out


Notice in this parable that BOTH people didn't make it in. Those who were originally invited didn't make it AND people who were later invited weren't allowed in because they thought they could show up without preparing themselves.

This is such a powerful parable because it perfectly reflects the Jews who originally had the invitation (i.e., salvation) but didn't recognize it...and then the Gentiles who accept the invitation (i.e., salvation) but who still won't be allowed in because they'll show up without cleaning themselves up (i.e., sanctification). Neither type of person respected the event. By the way, in Romans 11 Paul addresses both issues equally: the natural branches who were partially blinded and the wild branches boasting as if they can't lose the opportunity they were given.


"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)


So this parable was about both types not making it in (first the Jews and then Gentiles), whereas only a few will. The Messiah's parables are consistent with multiple passages in scripture, but these parables still don't preclude the natural branches from being regrafted when they repent as promised.

----

Let's get back to the Pharisees. These leaders were charged with caring for the vineyard, but clearly, we know they didn't. The Messiah's clash with the Shepherds was prophesied in the O.T. in the book of Ezekiel.


Ezekiel 34:1-2
The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?


Now, the book of Ezekiel was written while the people were in Babylonian captivity. Its prophecy details events that were to happen AFTER the Jews returned to the land during the second temple period (i.e., Herod's Temple). I'm going to just reference passages but please feel free to read its chapters.


1. Ezekiel 33:28-29
- Jews will start sinning again when they return from Babylon.

- This was fulfilled before The Messiah in around 457 - 3 BC. We read of this drama in Nehemiah, Zechariah and those intertestamental books


2. Ezekiel 34
- Corrupt shepherds will mislead the flock, and the sheep will scatter, but The Almighty will search out his sheep and make a covenant with them

- In fulfillment of this chapter we read about The Messiah's clash with the Pharisees in the gospels (corrupt shepherds), He often said He was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and then He established the New Covenant (27 - 34 AD).


3. Ezekiel 35:5-15
- Jerusalem is prophesied to be destroyed (i.e., desolated). We know this happened in 70 AD. And by your reckoning, the kingdom is taken from Israel and given to another group. Correct. But notice we have many more chapters left to fulfill in Ezekiel. Also, notice what else is mentioned in Chapter 35.

- Next, it says the Edomites will claim the land as theirs during Israel's punishment/scattering. But because they acted like enemies to their brother Jacob during his time of punishment (Deut 28), the Edomites will live through constant war and blood; never to experience peace until such time as their own destruction/desolation.


4. Ezekiel 36:1-7
- While Almighty's anger grows for Edom for claiming the land as their property, His anger grows for every nation of the world for how they treat His people (i.e., last approx 2000 years).


5. Ezekiel 36:8-15
- The nations will mock and hate His people (i.e., last approx 2000 years) until The Almighty Himself gathers them back home (Deut 30 promise; Roman 11 promise).


6. Ezekiel 36:24-27
- The Almighty reaffirms His promise to gather His people out of the lands they were scattered to and will confirm the new covenant with them (Jer 31:31-33).

- They'll remain in the lands of their scattering until He does this (Deut 30).


7. Ezekiel 37
- The Son of Man will raise the dead and rejoin both houses of Israel (1 Thess 4:15-17). This is when the nation will be born in a day (Isa 66:8).


8. Ezekiel 38-39
- Then Israel will live safely in their land without any protective walls or barriers (this is the 1000-year reign; Rev 20), until Gog & Magog think to invade them (Rev 20:7).

- But The Almighty will destroy them himself in His fiery fury (Rev 20:9)


9. Ezekiel 40-45
- The millennial temple is described in detail. This is heaven descending to earth when The Almighty will dwell with man forever (Rev 21)

-----

Again, the book of Ezekiel was written while the people were in Babylonian captivity. Its prophecy details all the stuff that was to happen AFTER the Jews returned to the land during the second temple period (i.e., Herod's Temple) through to the appearance of the Messiah, the destruction of Jerusalem, the subsequent punishment/scattering of the people, the trampling of the land by Edom, the resurrection & regathering of the people, and the establishment of Heaven on earth.

All scripture is in harmony.
They will be regrafted in. Never said that they wouldn't, but it will be under the new covenant. And Jesus' kingdom is an international kingdom with members out of every nation, kindred, tribe, and tongue. It has no physical boundaries, only spiritual boundaries...the kingdom is in you...Luke 17:21.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,030
6,536
113
62
All of the scripture is in agreement. There can't be a kingdom if its people are scattered to the four corners and into every nation. The kingdom was indeed taken from them and given to another. This is what Romans 11 explains when Paul describes the cutting off of the natural branch for unbelief...but further in that same chapter is the promise that they will be regrafted onto the root when they repent and believe again.

Let's look at each parable in Matthew 21...

The First Parable:
- One son paid lip service to obedience but didn't obey
- One son was initially rebellious but repented and obeyed


The Second Parable:
- The Husbandmen who were placed in charge of the vineyard stole it
- The Husbandmen killed every servant sent including the Owner's son

In both parables, The Messiah is indicting the shepherds placed in charge of the kingdom. This is confirmed later in the chapter.


Matthew 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


So keep this in mind for later because it can help us to synchronize O.T. prophecies. Next, you mentioned The Parable of the Wedding:
- The Son's wedding was happening so invitations went out
- Those invited had better things to do
- So invitations went out to anyone else
- Someone shows up without proper attire and he is bound and cast out


Notice in this parable that BOTH people didn't make it in. Those who were originally invited didn't make it AND people who were later invited weren't allowed in because they thought they could show up without preparing themselves.

This is such a powerful parable because it perfectly reflects the Jews who originally had the invitation (i.e., salvation) but didn't recognize it...and then the Gentiles who accept the invitation (i.e., salvation) but who still won't be allowed in because they'll show up without cleaning themselves up (i.e., sanctification). Neither type of person respected the event. By the way, in Romans 11 Paul addresses both issues equally: the natural branches who were partially blinded and the wild branches boasting as if they can't lose the opportunity they were given.


"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)


So this parable was about both types not making it in (first the Jews and then Gentiles), whereas only a few will. The Messiah's parables are consistent with multiple passages in scripture, but these parables still don't preclude the natural branches from being regrafted when they repent as promised.

----

Let's get back to the Pharisees. These leaders were charged with caring for the vineyard, but clearly, we know they didn't. The Messiah's clash with the Shepherds was prophesied in the O.T. in the book of Ezekiel.


Ezekiel 34:1-2
The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?


Now, the book of Ezekiel was written while the people were in Babylonian captivity. Its prophecy details events that were to happen AFTER the Jews returned to the land during the second temple period (i.e., Herod's Temple). I'm going to just reference passages but please feel free to read its chapters.


1. Ezekiel 33:28-29
- Jews will start sinning again when they return from Babylon.

- This was fulfilled before The Messiah in around 457 - 3 BC. We read of this drama in Nehemiah, Zechariah and those intertestamental books


2. Ezekiel 34
- Corrupt shepherds will mislead the flock, and the sheep will scatter, but The Almighty will search out his sheep and make a covenant with them

- In fulfillment of this chapter we read about The Messiah's clash with the Pharisees in the gospels (corrupt shepherds), He often said He was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and then He established the New Covenant (27 - 34 AD).


3. Ezekiel 35:5-15
- Jerusalem is prophesied to be destroyed (i.e., desolated). We know this happened in 70 AD. And by your reckoning, the kingdom is taken from Israel and given to another group. Correct. But notice we have many more chapters left to fulfill in Ezekiel. Also, notice what else is mentioned in Chapter 35.

- Next, it says the Edomites will claim the land as theirs during Israel's punishment/scattering. But because they acted like enemies to their brother Jacob during his time of punishment (Deut 28), the Edomites will live through constant war and blood; never to experience peace until such time as their own destruction/desolation.


4. Ezekiel 36:1-7
- While Almighty's anger grows for Edom for claiming the land as their property, His anger grows for every nation of the world for how they treat His people (i.e., last approx 2000 years).


5. Ezekiel 36:8-15
- The nations will mock and hate His people (i.e., last approx 2000 years) until The Almighty Himself gathers them back home (Deut 30 promise; Roman 11 promise).


6. Ezekiel 36:24-27
- The Almighty reaffirms His promise to gather His people out of the lands they were scattered to and will confirm the new covenant with them (Jer 31:31-33).

- They'll remain in the lands of their scattering until He does this (Deut 30).


7. Ezekiel 37
- The Son of Man will raise the dead and rejoin both houses of Israel (1 Thess 4:15-17). This is when the nation will be born in a day (Isa 66:8).


8. Ezekiel 38-39
- Then Israel will live safely in their land without any protective walls or barriers (this is the 1000-year reign; Rev 20), until Gog & Magog think to invade them (Rev 20:7).

- But The Almighty will destroy them himself in His fiery fury (Rev 20:9)


9. Ezekiel 40-45
- The millennial temple is described in detail. This is heaven descending to earth when The Almighty will dwell with man forever (Rev 21)

-----

Again, the book of Ezekiel was written while the people were in Babylonian captivity. Its prophecy details all the stuff that was to happen AFTER the Jews returned to the land during the second temple period (i.e., Herod's Temple) through to the appearance of the Messiah, the destruction of Jerusalem, the subsequent punishment/scattering of the people, the trampling of the land by Edom, the resurrection & regathering of the people, and the establishment of Heaven on earth.

All scripture is in harmony.
Also, in the giving of the indwelling Spirit, God is already dwelling with men forever.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,071
10,638
113
By focusing on this chapter only, you are deliberately ignoring an earlier chapter of Romans. Scripture must be read in whole, else heresies do develop. Christians are true Jews, through Christ Jesus, just as the Old Testament saints were saved (not this doesn't replace anybody - it allows all to enter God's kingdom, through Jesus Christ, who is the narrow gate).

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is called a straw man argument. The only ones talking about replacement are those saying that the current occupiers of the Rothschild-created state of Israel replace the Church whom God has called "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light".
Hi Mo, please explain 'the Rothschild-created state of Israel'. Not familiar with this phrase.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
Also, in the giving of the indwelling Spirit, God is already dwelling with men forever.
The end goal of the plan is for the Almighty to dwell with ALL mankind once again on earth like in the garden. The Almighty definitely is not doing that yet because mankind would be burnt up from His Holiness.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,030
6,536
113
62
The end goal of the plan is for the Almighty to dwell with ALL mankind once again on earth like in the garden. The Almighty definitely is not doing that yet because mankind would be burnt up from His Holiness.
Where do you find this?
The end goal is the glory of God. I've already laid out how earlier in this thread. Initially God made man in His image and tasked him to be fruitful and multiply...Genesis 1:27-28. In this way God would accomplish His goal of filling the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord...Habakkuk 2:14.
When sin entered in, God's image in man was corrupted. Rather than begin all over again, God chose to remake man in the image of Christ to accomplish His original goal.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,578
9,094
113
Where were the replacement folks when the concentration camps were full? When the lines were long for the gas chambers? Where was "true Israel" then?

Why aren't they flocking to Iran and telling them," Leave the Jews alone! We are true Israel!"

They will take the blessings, but the curses are for the Jew alone. Which in and of itself proves the distinction of Israel and the Church.
Some here either minimize the number of Jews murdered, say it was in some fashion their fault, or even deny it outright.

Most of Europes Churches were Amils. So they read Luther, and his hate filled screeds against the Jews, and then were indifferent or even in agreement with the persecution of the Jews.

This thread is testimony that wicked spirit is still at work today.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
Where do you find this?
The end goal is the glory of God. I've already laid out how earlier in this thread. Initially God made man in His image and tasked him to be fruitful and multiply...Genesis 1:27-28. In this way God would accomplish His goal of filling the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord...Habakkuk 2:14.
When sin entered in, God's image in man was corrupted. Rather than begin all over again, God chose to remake man in the image of Christ to accomplish His original goal.
It's found in the very last 2 chapters of scripture. It's at the end of the book.


Revelation 21:10-17
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, as clear as crystal.

12 The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16 The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadiad in length and width and height. 17 And he measured its wall to be 144 cubits,e by the human measure the angel was using.


Revelaition 22:1-5
Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him.

4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.


Revelation 22:14-15
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.

15 But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.


The end is for The Almighty to dwell with His people face-to-face. The goal is to return to the way things were in the garden when He would talk face-to-face with His creation.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,030
6,536
113
62
It's found in the very last 2 chapters of scripture. It's at the end of the book.


Revelation 21:10-17
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, as clear as crystal.

12 The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16 The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadiad in length and width and height. 17 And he measured its wall to be 144 cubits,e by the human measure the angel was using.


Revelaition 22:1-5
Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him.

4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.


Revelation 22:14-15
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.

15 But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.


The end is for The Almighty to dwell with His people face-to-face. The goal is to return to the way things were in the garden when He would talk face-to-face with His creation.
You are being a little disingenuous here with scripture in leaving out Revelation 21:9. This verse represents the subject of what comes in Revelation 21:10-17. Verse 9 clearly says he is being shown the bride, the Lamb's wife. The description that follows is not of a physical city, but the church. Notice the description of the foundation and compare it to Ephesians 2:19-22. Notice also the shape of the city. It is a perfect cube exactly as is the Holy of Holies in the temple. The bride...the church...has become the dwelling place of God as I said earlier.
 

Publican

Active member
Oct 1, 2024
438
223
43
It is mumbo jumbo indeed.

They do not have a problem with it, in fact they cannot wait.

You can point out every error in interpreting scripture and all the historical data regarding Scofield , Darby, Oxford Publishing and how the entire Christian Zionist movement/dispensationalism was concocted, instead of an objective analysis one gets "God uses evil men to do His will."
sigh!

What is a short season?
Revelation 20:7-15
 

Publican

Active member
Oct 1, 2024
438
223
43
Some here either minimize the number of Jews murdered, say it was in some fashion their fault, or even deny it outright.

Most of Europes Churches were Amils. So they read Luther, and his hate filled screeds against the Jews, and then were indifferent or even in agreement with the persecution of the Jews.

This thread is testimony that wicked spirit is still at work today.
The same wicked spirit that has deleted from public consciousness the 70 plus million Christians murdered by the Jewish Bolsheviks? That spirit? The spirit that causes the supposed followers of the Prince of Peace to look the other way at Israels atrocities against their neighbors? That Spirit?