Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Do you believe that all four of man's faculties (intellect, affections, conscience and volition) reside in man's heart?
The heart is the center of the soul's personality.
Intellect is limited to the genetics of the brain in our body that our soul resides in.
The heart is like the master computer of a car. It can be programmed to some extent by our volition.

The body provides a format for our soul to operate within.
If granted a very strong body?
The soul will be free to express itself a certain way.
In ways that a weak body would not allow for.

Volition stems from the reasoning capacity of the soul living within a normal body.
When in a defective body (for example, an idiot) the volition will be hampered.
That is because the soul of an idiot has been cut off from perceptory options to work with found with a normal brain.


Just touching upon it.... .
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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Right. You say He died for all sins. Unbelief is a sin. So, according to you, it is paid for.
Since we know God accepted Jesus sacrifice as a propitiation for sin, that would mean there are people in hell whose sins have been paid for, and God, after accepting the payment, still requires payment for some?
Where does scripture list unbelief as a sin?
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
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So...in your world God is just in punishing sins twice over: Once upon the Last Adam and once upon all those who never made it out of the First Adam? Even the ungodly world knows that double jeopardy is unjust. But you...not so much, heh?
Even the ungodly world thinks like you. Food for thought and cause for pause.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,723
554
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The heart is more than just the mind, and vice versa. While intricately related, they are separate entities. I just showed you God making a distinction between them. Here's another:
Romans 6:17...obeyed...the will, from the heart...the heart, that form of doctrine...the mind...

Repentance is an act of the will, based on information...the mind, and the prevailing condition of the heart...the heart.

Ezekiel 36:26

Living Bible

And I will give you a new heart—I will give you new and right desires—and put a new spirit within you. I will take out your stony hearts of sin and give you new hearts of love.[a]

Ask God, believe God and see new from God through us in beleif to Son is risen for us to love all, which is not always easy is it?
Seeing wisely as a serpent, thanking God for it, learning how to remain harmless in awareness, thanks
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,723
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1 John 3:23 says we are commanded to be believe.
I see it as it is best to believe God simply loves us all, otherwise Son would have not gone to that cross willingly, that be what I see now, not always saw that before growing up and not that I have grown up, I need God to lead period, thanks
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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There is an infinite number of options if one runs with it. These seem to me the clearest two. It ain't complicated, we just tend to make it so.
Actually, there aren't that many options. Either Christ atoned for all universally and, therefore, all are saved; or he atoned for the sins of many and they are saved. The third option is the most absurd of all: He universally atoned for all but none of them are actually saved until they choose to be, which means the vast majority of people in the world for "whom Christ died" will wind up paying for their own sins, even though Christ supposedly paid the price already!

The only option that is thoroughly biblical is Door #2.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
Actually, there aren't that many options. Either Christ atoned for all universally and, therefore, all are saved; or he atoned for the sins of many and they are saved. The third option is the most absurd of all: He universally atoned for all but none of them are actually saved until they choose to be, which means the vast majority of people in the world for "whom Christ died" will wind up paying for their own sins, even though Christ supposedly paid the price already!

The only option that is thoroughly biblical is Door #2.
You are certainly entitled to believe any view you wish.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
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The heart is the center of the soul's personality.
Intellect is limited to the genetics of the brain in our body that our soul resides in.
The heart is like the master computer of a car. It can be programmed to some extent by our volition.

The body provides a format for our soul to operate within.
If granted a very strong body?
The soul will be free to express itself a certain way.
In ways that a weak body would not allow for.

Volition stems from the reasoning capacity of the soul living within a normal body.
When in a defective body (for example, an idiot) the volition will be hampered.
That is because the soul of an idiot has been cut off from perceptory options to work with found with a normal brain.


Just touching upon it.... .
Thanks for you non-answer. So, I'll give you the thoroughly biblical answer: All four of man's faculties are seated in man's heart. Therefore, since the heart of man is thoroughly corrupt, vile, deceitful, evil and sinful -- then it logically follows that all the faculties therein are also affected. There's nothing spiritually sound in man...including his "free" will! Just as we mere mortals can be helpless physically, mentally or emotionally, so, too, we're all helpless spiritually.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
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I always viewed 1 Jn 3:23 in the context of a command to believers, not unbelievers.
So...any unbeliever reading that passage would do well to ignore it because it doesn't apply to him?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
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So...any unbeliever reading that passage would do well to ignore it because it doesn't apply to him?
Reading any verse of Scripture without context is what leads to heresy. If it was as simple as a command, the Law would have been sufficient.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,450
539
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Either Christ atoned for all universally and, therefore, all are saved; or he atoned for the sins of many and they are saved..

Atonement for all sins does not save. It opened the door to become saved.



And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli,
lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”



Jesus was bearing everyone's sins when He cried out.

What would happen to us if Jesus did not pay for all mankind's sin?

What would have happened to mankind if He never bore our sins?

It's time we found this out...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Thanks, Kamala....

I asked a question that would answer a question if you could only answer.
You want to answer a question that isn't relevant to my point while never addressing the point I made. The very thing you accuse me of is the very thing you are guilty of. Who's Kamala?