Total Depravity

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brightfame52

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The phrase totally depraved is nowhere near strong enough to describe the spiritual state of mankind, for it allows room for life, albeit a depraved one. The language of Scripture is “DEAD in trespasses and sins”, and this is the language of every true born again Christian. Total depravity is only a symptom of something far worse: spiritual death. Man lives a spiritually depraved life because he is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. Prior to salvation man only has a depraved life, because he is deprived of all spiritual life by sin. Man is far more than totally depraved in life, he is totally deprived of life!

Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one[Adam] many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Religionist today deny that man through Adam was made dead to God and that how each of us enter into this world through natural birth.
 
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brightfame52

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rogerg said:
No, it is sin.

[Psa 51:5 NIV] 5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
[Psa 51:5 KJV] 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
[Psa 51:5 ESV] 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

[Rom 5:18-19 KJV]

18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[19 ESV] 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
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Job like other Saints made alive by God understood mans sinnership from the womb Job 14:4

4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
 
J

j55

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brightfame52 said:
@j55



No its not, you are misled.
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Your not one of God's Elect, Romans chapter 8, Spirit of adoption. Romans chapter 9, vessels for destruction are Reprobates. Isaiah chapter 6, this group is spiritually dead, Spirit of slumber. Reprobates have unclesn Spirit
Three different groups.


Your misleading people.

Ill be ignoring you from here out.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Magenta said:
Sinless or not, a person MUST be born again. Until then, ALL are by NATURE children of wrath.

Some do not like that fact and argue tooth and nail against it.
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Moot issue. THERE IS NOBODY that's "Not Sinless", consequently being BORN AGAIN is a universal requirement and your "Nature" argument is totally unimportant.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Moot issue. THERE IS NOBODY that's "Not Sinless", consequently being BORN AGAIN is a universal requirement and your "Nature" argument is totally unimportant.
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Ridiculous to call a universal requirement "moot."
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Magenta said:
Ridiculous to call a universal requirement "moot."
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CONTEXT!!! You said: "Sinless or not, a person MUST be born again".

Since EVERYBODY SINS, then there IS NO "NOT". Jesus was SINLESS, but HE didn't have to be Born Again, since HE already HAD the Holy Spirit (as recorded at his baptism).
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Bob-Carabbio said:
CONTEXT!!! You said: "Sinless or not, a person MUST be born again".

Since EVERYBODY SINS, then there IS NO "NOT". Jesus was SINLESS, but HE didn't have to be Born Again, since HE already HAD the Holy Spirit (as recorded at his baptism).
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Yes, and it is true that regardless of whether or not one sins, they MUST be born again.
Since it is a universal requirement it is ridiculous to call it a moot point.
Much of Scripture is about the very fact that the natural man is lost and
in need of being saved, of which being born again plays a major part.

Where is it recorded at Jesus' baptism that He already had the Holy Spirit?
 
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brightfame52

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j55 said:
Your not one of God's Elect, Romans chapter 8, Spirit of adoption. Romans chapter 9, vessels for destruction are Reprobates. Isaiah chapter 6, this group is spiritually dead, Spirit of slumber. Reprobates have unclesn Spirit
Three different groups.


Your misleading people.

Ill be ignoring you from here out.
Click to expand...
you are misled. All men by nature including you and me are dead and depraved to God
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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rogerg said:
[Psa 51:5 NIV] 5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
[Psa 51:5 KJV] 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
[Psa 51:5 ESV] 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Click to expand...

Is this true of David or all humanity?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Moot issue. THERE IS NOBODY that's "Not Sinless", consequently being BORN AGAIN is a universal requirement and your "Nature" argument is totally unimportant.
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It is important to the ideology which makes salvation a process of divine selection and limitation.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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HeIsHere said:
Yes but which death (there are many types of deaths) and what does wages of sin mean.
So think on that too.
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There are likely only three under consideration: spiritual death is what ALL are born in to.

Physical death is the first death which all will experience.

This is the consequence of Adam's sin.

Despite all who say otherwise, to either, or both.

Then there is the final everlasting death known as the second death.

Those reconciled to God by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ escape the second death.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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HeIsHere said:
It is important to the ideology which makes salvation a process of divine selection and limitation.
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Are you now also denying that to attain to life everlasting you must be born again of the Spirit?

Hardly surprising given all your denials of what constitutes the natural man in Scripture.

The necessity of being born again is Christianity 101, and can hardly be said to be moot, but your "theology" must deny that fact.
 
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rogerg

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HeIsHere said:
Is this true of David or all humanity?
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All humanity: we are all guilty of the same sin - David was no different than anyone else.

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

[Psa 51:2 KJV] 2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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rogerg said:
All humanity: we are all guilty of the same sin - David was no different than anyone else.

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

[Psa 51:2 KJV] 2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Click to expand...
Paul said nothing good dwells in his flesh. That would apply to ALL humanity.

But @HeIsHere wants to deny that fact and believe something else.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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HeIsHere said:
It is important to the ideology which makes salvation a process of divine selection and limitation.
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TRUE - if GOD doesn't "DRAW", you ain't coming. But ALL HUMANITY is hell-bound, NOT BECAUSE THEY "INHERITED" anything, but because of their OWN SIN. God has mercy on whom he chooses (Rom 9:18).
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Bob-Carabbio said:
TRUE - if GOD doesn't "DRAW", you ain't coming. But ALL HUMANITY is hell-bound, NOT BECAUSE THEY "INHERITED" anything, but because of their OWN SIN. God has mercy on whom he chooses (Rom 9:18).
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Did you not inherit flesh? If you did not, where did it come from? Spun out of the ethers???

I am certain you inherited human nature.
 
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rogerg

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j55 said:
Titus chapter 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedience, unfit for good works.
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The term "by their works" pertains to those who rely on their deeds for justification. Such individuals are deemed detestable and disobedient by God, as they violate His covenant of grace. Not placing trust solely in Christ as Savior, but in one's own works, is the inherited and fundamental sin that brings eternal judgment. However, if one is saved by Christ, then their sins are forgiven. From this forgiveness, they will stop relying on their own deeds and instead trust in His grace and Christ.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Bob-Carabbio said:
TRUE - if GOD doesn't "DRAW", you ain't coming. But ALL HUMANITY is hell-bound, NOT BECAUSE THEY "INHERITED" anything, but because of their OWN SIN. God has mercy on whom he chooses (Rom 9:18).
Click to expand...
I suppose the depends upon what is meant by "draw" and in what context it was stated.
 
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